Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
My review and experience with it
Published on May 1, 2005 By Draginol In Home Improvement

If you decide you want to finish your basement there are lots of options to consider.  Do you do it yourself? Do you contract it out? Maybe do a little in between? For me and my wife, we just aren't handy enough to try to finish a basement on our own.  So we decided we'd contract the whole thing out.

Once you decide you're going to contract it out, then it's a matter of deciding what direction to take with it. Do you go with drywall? The problem with drywall is that it takes months to put in (how long do you want contractors going in and out of your house?).  It makes a lot of mess (expects months if not years of drywall dust to be floating around your house), it's susceptible to damage from a wide range of sources (water, normal wear and tear due to it being in a basement).  So we wanted our basement finished but drywall had a lot of negatives to it.

That's when we heard about the Owens Corning Basement System.  After intense negotiations, we had it done.  And below you can read about our experiences during the sales process, installation, and after effects.  I hope you find it useful.

The Owens Corning Basement System has been in place now for our basement for about a month now so I've had time to get used to it.

The project went pretty smoothly except for a few hiccups that I'll talk about here. So what's the verdict? Here are the things I really liked about it:

  1. It's fast. In 2 weeks it's all done.
  2. It's clean. No dry wall dust all over.
  3. It's durable. It's virtually impossible to damage. Basements, unlike the rest of the house, are more prone to dings since that's where most people store things too.
  4. It's virtually sound proof. This was an unexpected benefit. But the kids can go and play down there without having to hear music, TV, yelling throughout the house.
  5. It looks pretty nice still (but not as nice as dry wall in my opinion).
  6. It is nice to know that in 20 years it'll look the same as today. Dry wall in basements tend to not look so good. At best you'll have to repaint larger areas. With this, you don't have to.

The big thing for us though was the speed of it. My first basement was done with dry wall and I have no regrets about that. It was nicely done. But it took months to do and over a year for the house to stop having more dust in it than before. The dry wall dust simply gets everywhere.

If you're as unhandy as me, then you likely want contractors to do pretty much all the building. It can be uncomfortable having strangers in your house for months. In contrast, the Owens Corning Basement System was installed in our roughly 1100 to 1200 square foot area in about 2 weeks (closer to 10 days).

In short, I was willing to pay a premium to not have to deal with a summer of construction. The fact that it looks nice and can't be damaged easily was a real bonus. My 3 year old already put that to the test by taking a permanent marker to one of the walls. In a few minutes we were able to wipe it off with some bleach and you can't even tell where it was. Contrast that to having to repaint that area with a dry wall basement. Not to mention all the nicks and gouges that would be there due to moving stuff down there.

That said, here are things that I ran into that I didn't like that you should be aware of:

I really didn't like the sales strategy of their sales people. High pressure combined with little specifics created a lot of headaches during the project.

First off, people who can afford to pay a premium for their basement being done aren't fools. Even so, they used the same tactic on us as they would on some gullible yokel. No offense, but the reason we can afford this stuff is because we have some financial savvy. So don't march into our houses with magazines showing that the "Average" basement costs over $50 per square foot to finish. Because that's nonsense and does more to harm your sale than anything else. Sure, if you're going to have bathrooms and kitchens and tiled areas and wet bars and such it will cost more, but the Owens Corning System doesn't take care of any of that. They just do the "walls", drop down ceiling, electrical, and a few other things. They're not going to build you a bar or tile your floor for you (unless you make a special deal with them). Just for reference, a typical basement done with dry wall with nothing too fancy done shouldn't cost much more than $20 per square foot. Our last dry wall basement cost around $17 per square foot.

The price you should try to get with the Owens Corning Basement System is somewhere between $25 and $35 per square foot. They may balk at $25 but $35 they should certainly take. I paid about $28 per square foot. $30 per square foot would be good. Anything much higher and you're paying too much. Which is why they do the high pressure tactic to get you to sign right there.  To the sales guy's horror, I made him sit there while I had my laptop doing net searches on how much other people have paid. By the way, be aware that most states do have a law that allow you to back out of contracts within 72 hours. So if they did manage to get you to commit for $55 per square foot or something you aren't up the creek.

The second thing I didn't care for was the amount of vagueness to the agreement. Because of the high pressure sales tactics, the sales guy didn't write down a lot of our specific needs on his "agreement" (which was literally just a 1 page form he hand wrote notes on which I was pretty unhappy about). For instance, we said we wanted padded carpet so he suggested Home Depot. Which we did. But they didn't cut the doors so that they would fit on padded carpet so when we put in the carpeting, we had to take off the doors. It took us 3 weeks to get them to make good on this. They argued it wasn't their responsibility to fix the doors. Nonsense. We told them up front that we were going to get padded carpet. For us to fix would have meant bringing in another contractor. They agreed to fix it only after I made it clear that I would ensure that my experiences with the Owens Corning Basement System would show up high on google. It took the guy 30 minutes to fix it once he dropped by. So they made good but it did mar an otherwise fairly seamless experience.

So make sure that you are clear (and document) exactly what they do and what they expect you to do. The Owens Corning contractors don't tend to do as much as regular full service basement contractors. They weren't planning on putting in our phone and cable lines for example but luckily that was written into that agreement.

Thirdly, the only negative I've run into since putting it in is that it is, contrary to what they said, not that easy to hang things up on the walls. Since they're not drywall, you can't just put in a nail and put stuff up. You have to use special clipper thingies. These work nice on light things. But they didn't give us any samples or directions or order forms to get things for putting up heavier items (like a big white board for example). This has been a source of some ire since it's turning out not easy to find these "mending plates" in low quantities. Office Max and Staples don't seem to have them. None of the hardware stores we've looked at have them. I've looked on the net and I can buy them in quantity (like 1000 at a time) but I only need like 5. My suggestion is to insist that they provide you with 100 of the t-pins (small stuff) and 100 mending plates (big stuff) as part of the agreement.

Fourthly, this gets back to the "customers are suckers" sales pitch. The sales guy and his materials really went hard on the mold scare tactic. Mold is definitely something not to blow off. But it should not be your motivating factor to spend a third again as much on a basement. Would you pay $15000 more on your house for a "lightning strike resistant" design? The kinds of houses most people who would put this stuff in are usually newer and on the premium side. The basements, in short, don't get wet very easily. That isn't to say they shouldn't mention mold, but it should be more of a "bonus" feature rather than as the principle selling point.

Now that it's all done, I'm pretty happy with it. I like knowing that I won't have to mess around with painting or touching up the basement in a few years. I do wish it was easier to modify with other things. For instance, I can't just build out a bar from it. But that is no biggie really. The basement does what it was supposed to do. And even better, since I want to have a theatre down there eventually, it's got incredible acoustics. If you have the money and are more interested in having your basement be finished quickly and cleanly rather than having some incredible basement palace created, this is something you should seriously consider.

Completion date: September 2003.

Update: September 2005: I have created a second article for people who want to share their experiences (good and bad) with the Owens Corning Basement System. GO HERE to discuss.

update: 10/2003 - still pretty happy with the basement. thanks for all your emails. if you have any questions, ask them in the comments area or you can email me at

update: 5/1/2005 - still happy with how it's turned out. I get a  lot of email on this stuff from people, I don't usually get to answer it. But I will say that we are happy with it still. It absorbs sound. But I maintain that the main reason to get it is that you want to save time. If you don't mind having people working on your basement for 6 to 10 weeks and the drywall dust and other dirt that is inevitable with dry-wall then get the dry-wall.  But for me, having it all over in a week or so was the key and no mess afterwards.

Comments (Page 13)
on Aug 22, 2004
Actually, no. I am a Bio-science Professor at the University at Rochester. I will admit that after much research I did purchase the OC system. I am quite familar with it and have had it now for almost 2 years. I did suffer through the long tedious presentation, and high pressure. I did buy the first night, but I do have quite a bit of knowlege on indoor molds. I can see how some people would be turned off. I wish you and your family only the best and found your opinion interesting.
on Aug 23, 2004
Now you've got me confused, Tom. There's a University "of" (not "at") Rochester in Rochester, New York. But they don't have a "bio-science" department (they have a biology department and a biomedical engineering department, but no Toms as professors, except for the chair of the biology department, Tom Eickbush). There's a Rochester College, a Rochester Institute of Technology and a University Center Rochester (in Minnesota) . . . are you a professor at one of these schools?

I don't want to insinuate anything, because if you are an expert on indoor molds, you have the potential to be of great value to this message board . . . but just who the heck are you?

on Aug 23, 2004
I am sorry that you are so confused, perhaps I can ease your pain. Insinuate is exactly what you did and meant to do. My value to this message board is moot..Anything that I can give to this board is available on the web. I find it amusing that you would refer to Dr. Eickbush as "Tom". If your name is Gus that is fine. I would never use my real name on any web sight or "board" as most of the people on here or any other board would. If that were the case, our full names and e-mail address would be available. To keep crackpots and wierdos from from looking up Tom T from University directorys. Not to insinuate or anything... Take the information for what it is worth and feel free to believe or not. Knowledge is power, take it for what it is worth.
on Aug 24, 2004
Well, we certainly can agree that "knowledge is power." It's just that I have a hard time believing that someone who had the dedication and intelligence to earn a Ph.D. would (1) make emotionally-charged and specious statements suggesting that not purchasing the OC system is choosing "money over safety and love of family, (2) make statements suggesting that a for-profit company is so altruistic that it only wants to sell its product to those of pure heart ("you are certainly not the type of customer that OC would want") or (3) patrol a "web sight" (sic) that offers reviews of a product you have already purchased.

I actually want to learn about mold because, unlike you, I have not yet finished my basement. Can you offer people like me something other than hyperbole? Like a cite to a recent peer-reviewed article, not sponsored by a special interest, that discusses the basement mold issue?
on Aug 24, 2004
U.S. Dept. of Energy, Office of Building Technologies (Basement Insulation sytems) Nathan Yost, M.D....Joseph Lstiburek. Ph.D.,P.E.{2002 Building science Corporation} {Keep your Basement Dry}{Keep the whole house warm and dry}above grade insulation techniques won't work in the basement...www.toxic-mold-tort-news-online/toxic_mold/mold.html...
That should be a start.
on Aug 24, 2004
First, a thanks to Darold -- well done.
Second, all this talk of TOXIC mold is missing the point. The threat of mold to your family is a fraction of the threat of mold to your capital investment in your home. 3 years from now, I know my OC basement won't smell bad and a.) scare off potential buyers or b.) trigger a mold inspection from a home inspector, requiring "mitigation." (I have a $6000 Radon Mitigation system in my home.) Its pretty straightforward: Pay $12K for sheetrock or $20K for Owens Corning? 3 years later, the $20K OC has appreciated in value along with the rest of your home, while the shreetrock will likely (though not necessarily) detract from the resale value due to fears of the cost of eventual mold mitigation, or will in fact have to be removed altogether prior to sale -- a loss of the $12K plus any subsequent appreciation.

Yes, I'm an Owens Corning field representative, and no, I do not use (nor does the franchise encourage) high pressure sales tactics. However, we genuinely believe the Owens Corning Basement Finishing System is the best possible way to finish a basemement, and we honestly do offer the best possible price at the time of our initial visit as an inducement to take action. If the person(s) I've expained our system to does not agree its the best system and offers the highest value, I feel I haven't done my job. In sales terminology the person still has "ojections" to be overcome. In 2 years of selling, I've never encountered anyone who said they would prefer sheetrock. So its always about the price. Which is why we offer the best price that night.

The way we look at it, these folks invited us into their home (we don't cold-call telemarket in our office -- everyone we see called us first) because they want their basement finished. We offer the best, highest value means of doing so -- and offer the best available price that night. We're not trying to sell so much as working hard to help them to decide to buy. May sound corny, but its true. People are (for the most part) conditioned to be reluctant to decide to buy. I just try hard to show them why they're making the smart decision to buy that night.

on Aug 25, 2004
Thank you, Tom T. I've got some reading to do.
on Aug 25, 2004
I'm wondering if anyone has had experience with the OC rep in the Atlanta area. I a retired Police officer who does not do B.S at all from anyone. I pitty the fool who tries high pressure in my home. I want straight answers, honest pricing and time to discuss it with my spouse, work my own numbers and PRAY on it before I buy.
Any one in the Atlanta area willing to share their experiences please do so. I have a sales visit scheduled for two weeks from now and have no trepidation about cancelling.
on Aug 26, 2004
If you want the product you will have to sit thru the presentation. You will be asked to buy(that is how they feed thier family) and you will be given a discount to make a decision that eve. You do not have to. You can either afford it or you can't. You will either want it or you won't. There is no BS just facts. Nice, that you can use God as a crutch to not make a decision. But there isn't a salesperson who is worth his salt who believes that crap. Just another excuse...have the balls to say no...don't use God.
on Aug 26, 2004
Bill Will: I'm not from Atlanta, but I know the guys who run that franchise, and they -- like all franchisees -- want your business, not hard feelings. But the first night discount is real -- it wouldn't work otherwise. If you think you want the system, take the discount, sign the contract, THEN pray on it -- by law you have 3 days to cancel the contract (the salesman will provide you the paperwork to do so if you decide to. The mistake would be to say "I don't make $20,000 decisions without sleeping on it." If you found the car you want at the best price you'll find, you sign then and there, don't you? Although I don't necessarily approve of Stanley K's colorful language, essentially he is right that "think about its" are stalls -- statistics show a husband and wife need less than 5 minutes to decide yes or no on a product and price point such as ours. Ask your salesperson to "give you a few minutes alone" and they surely will.

What we need is a "yes" or a "no" -- "maybe" is a huge waste of everyone's time and energy.
on Aug 26, 2004
on Aug 26, 2004
that is stanley you kiss my ass....
on Aug 26, 2004
that is, stanley, you kiss my ass....
on Aug 27, 2004
Cooper - a real OC salesman. I have a question for you. I posted above a couple times.

I didn't bite on the OC product simply for price. I found the logic completely flawed on their (your) pricing system. My basement was retailed (by OC standards) to be $21K. It was discounted to $19K for the "act within a year" price and my buy-it-now price was $15K. A similar bid on drywall would have been $10K, and of course a lot more labor would be involved. So that makes me wonder - please explain this to me. Why is the OC product more expensive at all?? Shouldn't it cost less, period? After all, in my basement, the salesman said it would take 3 or maybe 4 days to complete. If labor is such an expensive portion of any construction job, that doesn't make sense that OCBS would be more.

It didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how overcharged the product is.
on Aug 27, 2004
To Robert: Any product that is not covered against mold, water or a Class 1 fire rating should be less expensive. You are paying for the technology and the guarantee and the Owens Corning reputation behind it. It is simply a different product..Your logic would dictate that a Yugo should be priced the same as a BMW because they are cars!...The fact that they are cars is the only thing they have in common.