Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
My review and experience with it
Published on May 1, 2005 By Draginol In Home Improvement

If you decide you want to finish your basement there are lots of options to consider.  Do you do it yourself? Do you contract it out? Maybe do a little in between? For me and my wife, we just aren't handy enough to try to finish a basement on our own.  So we decided we'd contract the whole thing out.

Once you decide you're going to contract it out, then it's a matter of deciding what direction to take with it. Do you go with drywall? The problem with drywall is that it takes months to put in (how long do you want contractors going in and out of your house?).  It makes a lot of mess (expects months if not years of drywall dust to be floating around your house), it's susceptible to damage from a wide range of sources (water, normal wear and tear due to it being in a basement).  So we wanted our basement finished but drywall had a lot of negatives to it.

That's when we heard about the Owens Corning Basement System.  After intense negotiations, we had it done.  And below you can read about our experiences during the sales process, installation, and after effects.  I hope you find it useful.

The Owens Corning Basement System has been in place now for our basement for about a month now so I've had time to get used to it.

The project went pretty smoothly except for a few hiccups that I'll talk about here. So what's the verdict? Here are the things I really liked about it:

  1. It's fast. In 2 weeks it's all done.
  2. It's clean. No dry wall dust all over.
  3. It's durable. It's virtually impossible to damage. Basements, unlike the rest of the house, are more prone to dings since that's where most people store things too.
  4. It's virtually sound proof. This was an unexpected benefit. But the kids can go and play down there without having to hear music, TV, yelling throughout the house.
  5. It looks pretty nice still (but not as nice as dry wall in my opinion).
  6. It is nice to know that in 20 years it'll look the same as today. Dry wall in basements tend to not look so good. At best you'll have to repaint larger areas. With this, you don't have to.

The big thing for us though was the speed of it. My first basement was done with dry wall and I have no regrets about that. It was nicely done. But it took months to do and over a year for the house to stop having more dust in it than before. The dry wall dust simply gets everywhere.

If you're as unhandy as me, then you likely want contractors to do pretty much all the building. It can be uncomfortable having strangers in your house for months. In contrast, the Owens Corning Basement System was installed in our roughly 1100 to 1200 square foot area in about 2 weeks (closer to 10 days).

In short, I was willing to pay a premium to not have to deal with a summer of construction. The fact that it looks nice and can't be damaged easily was a real bonus. My 3 year old already put that to the test by taking a permanent marker to one of the walls. In a few minutes we were able to wipe it off with some bleach and you can't even tell where it was. Contrast that to having to repaint that area with a dry wall basement. Not to mention all the nicks and gouges that would be there due to moving stuff down there.

That said, here are things that I ran into that I didn't like that you should be aware of:

I really didn't like the sales strategy of their sales people. High pressure combined with little specifics created a lot of headaches during the project.

First off, people who can afford to pay a premium for their basement being done aren't fools. Even so, they used the same tactic on us as they would on some gullible yokel. No offense, but the reason we can afford this stuff is because we have some financial savvy. So don't march into our houses with magazines showing that the "Average" basement costs over $50 per square foot to finish. Because that's nonsense and does more to harm your sale than anything else. Sure, if you're going to have bathrooms and kitchens and tiled areas and wet bars and such it will cost more, but the Owens Corning System doesn't take care of any of that. They just do the "walls", drop down ceiling, electrical, and a few other things. They're not going to build you a bar or tile your floor for you (unless you make a special deal with them). Just for reference, a typical basement done with dry wall with nothing too fancy done shouldn't cost much more than $20 per square foot. Our last dry wall basement cost around $17 per square foot.

The price you should try to get with the Owens Corning Basement System is somewhere between $25 and $35 per square foot. They may balk at $25 but $35 they should certainly take. I paid about $28 per square foot. $30 per square foot would be good. Anything much higher and you're paying too much. Which is why they do the high pressure tactic to get you to sign right there.  To the sales guy's horror, I made him sit there while I had my laptop doing net searches on how much other people have paid. By the way, be aware that most states do have a law that allow you to back out of contracts within 72 hours. So if they did manage to get you to commit for $55 per square foot or something you aren't up the creek.

The second thing I didn't care for was the amount of vagueness to the agreement. Because of the high pressure sales tactics, the sales guy didn't write down a lot of our specific needs on his "agreement" (which was literally just a 1 page form he hand wrote notes on which I was pretty unhappy about). For instance, we said we wanted padded carpet so he suggested Home Depot. Which we did. But they didn't cut the doors so that they would fit on padded carpet so when we put in the carpeting, we had to take off the doors. It took us 3 weeks to get them to make good on this. They argued it wasn't their responsibility to fix the doors. Nonsense. We told them up front that we were going to get padded carpet. For us to fix would have meant bringing in another contractor. They agreed to fix it only after I made it clear that I would ensure that my experiences with the Owens Corning Basement System would show up high on google. It took the guy 30 minutes to fix it once he dropped by. So they made good but it did mar an otherwise fairly seamless experience.

So make sure that you are clear (and document) exactly what they do and what they expect you to do. The Owens Corning contractors don't tend to do as much as regular full service basement contractors. They weren't planning on putting in our phone and cable lines for example but luckily that was written into that agreement.

Thirdly, the only negative I've run into since putting it in is that it is, contrary to what they said, not that easy to hang things up on the walls. Since they're not drywall, you can't just put in a nail and put stuff up. You have to use special clipper thingies. These work nice on light things. But they didn't give us any samples or directions or order forms to get things for putting up heavier items (like a big white board for example). This has been a source of some ire since it's turning out not easy to find these "mending plates" in low quantities. Office Max and Staples don't seem to have them. None of the hardware stores we've looked at have them. I've looked on the net and I can buy them in quantity (like 1000 at a time) but I only need like 5. My suggestion is to insist that they provide you with 100 of the t-pins (small stuff) and 100 mending plates (big stuff) as part of the agreement.

Fourthly, this gets back to the "customers are suckers" sales pitch. The sales guy and his materials really went hard on the mold scare tactic. Mold is definitely something not to blow off. But it should not be your motivating factor to spend a third again as much on a basement. Would you pay $15000 more on your house for a "lightning strike resistant" design? The kinds of houses most people who would put this stuff in are usually newer and on the premium side. The basements, in short, don't get wet very easily. That isn't to say they shouldn't mention mold, but it should be more of a "bonus" feature rather than as the principle selling point.

Now that it's all done, I'm pretty happy with it. I like knowing that I won't have to mess around with painting or touching up the basement in a few years. I do wish it was easier to modify with other things. For instance, I can't just build out a bar from it. But that is no biggie really. The basement does what it was supposed to do. And even better, since I want to have a theatre down there eventually, it's got incredible acoustics. If you have the money and are more interested in having your basement be finished quickly and cleanly rather than having some incredible basement palace created, this is something you should seriously consider.

Completion date: September 2003.

Update: September 2005: I have created a second article for people who want to share their experiences (good and bad) with the Owens Corning Basement System. GO HERE to discuss.

update: 10/2003 - still pretty happy with the basement. thanks for all your emails. if you have any questions, ask them in the comments area or you can email me at bwardell@stardock.com.

update: 5/1/2005 - still happy with how it's turned out. I get a  lot of email on this stuff from people, I don't usually get to answer it. But I will say that we are happy with it still. It absorbs sound. But I maintain that the main reason to get it is that you want to save time. If you don't mind having people working on your basement for 6 to 10 weeks and the drywall dust and other dirt that is inevitable with dry-wall then get the dry-wall.  But for me, having it all over in a week or so was the key and no mess afterwards.


Comments (Page 37)
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on Mar 24, 2005
You people are going into this looking for a battle and are getting it. This web site has made you look for ghosts that are not there. If you are that skeptical why are you having someone out to your home??? To prove how tuff you you are as a consumer...Have you read anything in here that says OC or the representitive will change??? They are a sales company and they sell this product..and they will do it in their own fashon. The Owens Corning basement system did over 200 million last year and this year that will double. What protects you...you invited them into your house because they are experts, but then want them to do a presentation your way!!! If you don't like the product...don't buy. But do not expect a sales organization to change its tactics. It is what it is..the only one who suffers is you..put in drywall..it cheaper and there is a contractor on every corner. What are you upset about...some one giving you an opportunity to save money buy asking for an order..or the fact that a 5 billion dollar a year company wants you to have all the facts to make that decision!!! Let the rep do his job and show you why this product does what it does and why it carries the price..don't have the time..don't have him out..stop bitching and and crying like a little girl. You want to tell the world you are an asshole on a website. "I didn't let hime tell me anything, I didn't let hime do his job, I did not buy. I will put drywall in, because I know better." Great, now you showed the big bad salesman who is boss...feel better.
on Mar 24, 2005
Dear Stanley,

The system is set up by the likes of YOU. If you want to save time, tell me the price of the product per square foot over the phone. Then I won't have to have you waste your time coming to my house. Also, I wasn't born yesterday, someone tells you that this price is only good today and let me call my boss for that , etc etc etc, Sounds like a scam to me. And whats this crap about both the wife and the husband have to be there or else you can't even talk to a salesmen.

Who in their right mind would by a product if the seller won't show you the warranty until you sign a contract. How is it that a salesmen for this product doesn't know how much a replacement panel would cost. I am supposed to buy something that may get damaged without a clue on how much it will cost to fix. Are you nuts!

I work with 2 people that have had the same type of experience as me. SO,,, what you are telling me is that everyone that doesn't buy is just an obnoxious, uninformed, combative customer.

You ask - Have I read anything here that makes me think that the contractors will change,,,, no. But I do notice that the OC website now has a link for complaints concerning basement system contractors,, must be a problem if you ask me.

Also, let the rep do his job? I guarantee you that I knew more about the product than the rep did. Lest you forget, I told the appointment confirmer UP FRONT that I did not want to hear about OC history or Mold. She PROMISED to forward the information. I was VERY specific with her. She made me "promise" that both my wife and I would be here, I said I agree to her condition if she would agree to mine...... AND SHE DID. However, I was forced to listen to the rep mention mold about 15 times, even after I told him what I do for a living he asks me stupid questions like "are you aware that mold is a health problem" and "do you know that mold can grow on drywall".

Why did I have a rep come out to my house you ask. Because like most people I thought that this was a product worth investigating and I was hoping that the stuff I had been reading here was actually the rantings of individuals that had experienced the exception to the rule. However, what I personally discovered was that this page is not a collection of isolated incidents. This page is a realistic representation of what the average consumer can expect.

I get the feeling from your post that OC is behind this type of strategy. So, when I send a copy of my previous post to the complaint link on the OC website I will ask them if this is the way they intended the sales procedure to go. If they say yes (or corporate lingo thing close to yes) then I guess that tells me what kind of company OC is, and if that is the case, you are right, I should have never had them to my house.

Now Stanley, go away and try to scam some other home owner.
on Mar 24, 2005
Stanley,
I am all for people have thier own opinions and trust me no disrespect BUT I don't think a 200 million or whatever company has the right to treat people like that......in my expereince I caught them in lies, have shoddy work done and with refusual to fix anything...but they sure collected my money.....I don't want to say too much here you never know who is lurking but at this point I have an attorney...Corporate gives you the run around and so does the franchise....I will post more when I know I am legally cleared to do so......BUT there are ghosts to be looked at TRUST me when I say that......from contracts to advertising to alot......
on Mar 24, 2005
Stanley,
I am all for people have thier own opinions and trust me no disrespect BUT I don't think a 200 million or whatever company has the right to treat people like that......in my expereince I caught them in lies, have shoddy work done and with refusual to fix anything...but they sure collected my money.....I don't want to say too much here you never know who is lurking but at this point I have an attorney...Corporate gives you the run around and so does the franchise....I will post more when I know I am legally cleared to do so......BUT there are ghosts to be looked at TRUST me when I say that......from contracts to advertising to alot......
on Mar 24, 2005
Jetser. I have not seen or heard of any type of litigation coming our way..I can understand that the franchise might not give you any satisfaction..but if you problems are just, and I am sure they are, then OC corporate will give you satisfaction. We have and never will give people the run around at OC. You pay a premium price for a premium product and should be totally happy. Most of the time final payment is not given until the you are satisfied. I am sure you lawyer and Oc will work things out to your happiness. I would be curious to know how you felt you where lied to by OC or the sales rep. Good luck. I am sure our paths will cross again.
on Mar 24, 2005
Crusty: Oh, yes by all means complain. Make sure you do it as classy and ego driven as your responses have been here. They will have an emergency meeting just for you..as far as the web site, what idiot would believe an anonymous website to help make his or her decisions! I know one person!!! Most of the blurbs on this site are from competitors or ex-employees or whatever. How do we know, listen...do you think a 5 billion dollar a year fortune 500 company is going to risk ANYTHING over a 20 or 30 thousand dollar lower level??? Please...they will protect the OC name and the way it does business. Your not happy because we did not do it your way and you knew everything...well...guess what...only a stupid man thinks he knows it all. If you are who you said you are (highly doubtful) an educated man would have have to listen because there was a chance he could gain more information, or add to the salesman's knowledge of the subject..if you truly knew all about mold and toxic mold than you would understand why The OC basement system is the only product that is made for and should be installed in your basement!!! no...no..not you. You would much rather put your family at risk and your home value in the toilet to sroke your ego...way to go..So when a family member gets sick or your home becomes a health hazard, remember your ego when you inurance company tells you to pound salt because they do not cover mold or dryrot, but thats ok because I almost forgot...you know it all.
on Mar 24, 2005
Stanley,
I did complain, I don't expect an emergency meeting, thanks for setting me straight though.
Only an idiot would make a decision based on a website, I made mine based on the salesmen.
Again with the 5 billion a year, I wasn't buying OC stock, I was researching a product.
I don't know it all, just more than the guy that came here, I read all the OC online info, read the entire U. of Minn. report, talked to contractors, called companies, etc.
Didn't do it my way? Sorry, but that was the "deal" I had with the contractor prior to their arrival, remember.
I didn't claim to be anything, I told you my certifications and what I do. You don't believe me, I don't care..... I also know that
I agree I would love to have the product in my basement, but for the umpteenth time. I was clear ,,,, ALL I WANTED WAS A QUOTE, PERIOD
YEP, you got me pegged, I don't care about my families health and my house is a health hazard...
I know enough to smell a rat.

Is it a good product, I think so. Are contractors taking advantage, I think so.

Lets review: won't let customers read warranty, claims product is mold proof, claims warranty is lifetime, doesn't know how much replacement parts are, leaves a "written quote" that is nothing but a number on a piece of paper. sounds like a reputable company to me... but what do I know

All I wanted to know was an estimate and the process made it as hard to get as one could possibly expect.. It seems to me this is a good product, marketed in a very bad way.
on Mar 24, 2005
Stanley,
Obviously you work for OC........now I am not saying all OC franchises are bad just the one I dealt with......trust me when I say I have proof of all my claims........There is soooo much to the story would take 2 hours from start to finish......What is your real name????? You must work at the Corporate level I can assume......I paid a premium but that is far from what I received......I left my email above......you can feel free to email me.............all I am saying is I don't care if you are a mom and pop store or a billion dollar industry just not fair to cheat people, mislead, lie and deceive.......I trusted in OC until what happened to me now I lost all trust in ever hiring anyone to come to my home.....shame on them.......I just wonder how they can wake up every morning and look at themselves in the mirror knowing that they lied......scarey that people can do this......and all for what money? profit??? is money worth scaming people into believing in one thing but not delivering on promises.......I guess it must be.....one thing though in everyone's complaints.....basically all say pretty darn similar experiences....I know I am not alone in what happened......once again no disrespect.......I just don't enjoy spending a large amount of money all cash may I add then to get the worst events to occur all over this basement system.......In the end at least in my story DEF not worth it!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But I always believe truth prevails.....and when a person lies they must tell another to cover that up and another and so on....noone can cover all thier lies......just sad because my father had a very successful business he built...he had upscale well known clients....and my father would NEVER do shady business.......my father did things by handshakes, his reputation and trust to do a job and do it right no matter what.....I assume then I hope to chat with you..................
on Mar 24, 2005
I haven't been on the website since OC started my basement 2 weeks ago. I just read the previous posts from Jester277. I used the OC from Chester, PA. (Lynne T Associates) My experience was nothing short of AMAZING! The guys had my entire basement completed in 2 weeks. They paid extra attention to detail and made suggestions that only improved the basement. I stood in the basement tonight with my wife and we were stunned that in 2 weeks we have a beautiful finished basement. I read previous posts about the walls looking like a cubicle. I really don't see it that way at all. I'm a big fan of the OC basement system. In retrospect I have read every single post on this site and I can only go by my personal experience. I think some of the posts on this site have people fired up and looking for conflict. The only person who can make a decision about something for their house is them. I really never got the impression that a 5 Billion dollar company is looking to screw any of us. They have a unique product that is just in it's infantile stage. Most of my friends and neighbors never even heard of the product. Anyone that would like to ask me questions about my experience feel free to email me. Roistchiro@aol.com
on Apr 03, 2005
Hi Jeff, I am glad you had a good experience, do you mind stating what you paid?
on Apr 03, 2005
Hi Jeff, I am glad you had a good experience, do you mind stating what you paid?
on Apr 03, 2005
Sorry, I just read back and found Jeff's email. Looks like $31 sq. ft. We were quoted after the discounts more like $51. Same area, same company about 800 sq. ft. Thanks, I am going to use this information or not buy it. I will let you know. I love this site!
on Apr 03, 2005
Sorry, I just read back and found Jeff's email. Looks like $31 sq. ft. We were quoted after the discounts more like $51. Same area, same company about 800 sq. ft. Thanks, I am going to use this information or not buy it. I will let you know. I love this site!
on Apr 03, 2005
When all was said and done I paid 31K to finish the 1,000 sq ft basement. We did not do a bathroom and that did not include carpet. I do have to say that after having the basement finished for 2 weeks there is one thing that I don't like. I have to paint the doors, posts, trim around the windows, and entrance way into the basement. I feel that after spending all that money that should have been done. Outside of the painting aspect I LOVE the basement. Everyone that has come over are blown away by it. I would say the biggest shocker to me is the sound proof walls. Once I walk down the stairs it's like walking into a cave. The sound that comes from my HDTV and stereo are FANTASTIC. I'm still amazed that my basement was finished in 2 weeks. I had painters that started work 1 week before the basement started and they worked a week after the basement was done. If anyone has any questions please feel free to email me. I'm an open book when it comes to the OC system. Roistchiro@aol.com
on Apr 06, 2005
OWENS CORNING

Asbestos claims

Tuesday, April 5, 2005

A federal judge in Philadelphia has ruled that bankrupt fiberglass maker Owens Corning is exposed to $7 billion in potential claims from people sickened by asbestos.
The decision issued Friday by U.S. District Judge John Fullham could force Owens Corning to increase a $3.6 billion reserve for asbestos claims.

Banks and bondholders owed money by Owens Corning had asked the court to set the company's liability to people injured by asbestos between $2.2 billion and $2.6 billion. Lawyers representing victims wanted at least $11 billion.



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