Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
New changes
Published on September 6, 2006 By Draginol In GalCiv Journals

Over the past few days we've been cleaning up things in preparation for the 1.3 release.

+ AI will play harder in campaign at lower levels (AI was designed to be somewhat nerfed on the early missions of the campaign to give players a gentle introduction.

+ Various improvements to the Terran Alliance and Arcean AIs.

+ Made some tweaks to show ships are designed such that even if they prefer to build ships with a particular weapon system, they will also bear in mind what types of weapons they have already researched (i.e. they may WANT to put beam weapons but if they only have Laser I but have Black Hole Generators for mass drivers it'll still build Black Hole Generators on their ships rather than just tossing a bunch of lasers on a ship simply because they prefer beam weapons at that point. It did this before but now it has a better algorithm)

+ CPU for AI algorithm option enables AI ships to be re-designed twice as often.

+ Terran Alliance based AI players will put early priority on factories as the first thing to build rather than star port.

+ AI players will not go to war for military reasons unless they have enough military forces to deal some immediate pain.

+ Lots of little AI tweaks

+ Changes in values to planetary improvements and starbase modules

+ Starting population now 8 billion on the home planet

+ Morale on home planet gets a 20% bonus

+ AI will tend to try to "finish off" its enemies

+ Changed difficulty to be based on the AVERAGE AI intelligence rather than the highest AI intelligence

+ Torian AI significantly altered in what it builds on planets.

+ Torian AI will raise taxes as long as morale is high

+ Terran Alliance AI will lease less often (stunted early growth)

+ Drengin will build more scouts to expand faster

+ All AI will tend to mobilize for war now BEFORE going to war (i.e.  start to send ships near the border rather than declare war and have months of phoney war. We have ideas on making it even better in the future.).

+ Starbase modules give more boost earlier and less later as you add modules

+ Fixed weird issue where AI would turn off social production between projects and then the AI would see that it has no social production and would then pick the cheapest (rather than the most appropriate) improvement to build which (wait for it) would tend to be economic improvements.

+ Morale ability has more diminishing returns at the high end. It still is powerful but a 200% morale ability is not twice as good as a 100% morale ability.

+ Integrated concepts from other AI personalities into Terran Alliance personality

+ Fixed several crash bugs we added during the betas.

+ Fixed some typos

+ Fixed beta bug where new city lights took away clouds

+ Some additional text polishing

A lot of this boils down to fixing bugs we've added during the betas, polishing areas, and in my case balancing things to go with some of the changes we've made.  I also spent some time on the AI that I hope people will notice.

I still have some major complaints with the AI.  the funny thing about writing "smart AI" is that you often run into three different issues: a) Knowing the strategy Convert the strategy into code and c) Making sure that the strategy actually works.

It's item C that is the most frustrating at times. You'll see the AI do something incredibly stupid that you have code in there explicitly to keep it from doing that.  Case in point, I had a mega fleet that I created (cheat codes) and the AI just bounced endless weaker fleets off of it. I have code that is SUPPOSED to make a reasonable guess whether it can win or at least soften up a given target. If it's hopeless, it should back off.  Yet I saw the Arceans waste half their military banging into this invincible fleet.  Another one that kills me is that the AI is SUPPOSED to mobilize for war.  When their relations with someone start to go down, they're supposed to start moving ships and fleets near the border so that when they go to war, they're organized.  Instead, I'll see the AI declare war and nothing happen for many game turns. Naturally, any time I go to debug it, THEN it works.  Which is how many of these problems go - they sometimes do work as designed but often won't work at all.

One complaint that I addressed last night was the nerfing of the AI in campaigns.  The AI is really dumb in the first several missions of the campaign.  But it ended up being TOO dumb.  At higher difficulty levels, it shoudl start to get smarter.  Subtlety is often hard to code in.

The amount of time it takes to debug tactical based military moves is what really causes the most pain. But it's something that is the most rewarding but takes the longest to test.  The AI in GalCiv 1 was horrible at actually fighting wars. You ended up with a death train.  This time around, the AI is much better, focusing its military. But I still see it do things like leave an undefended planet (one it just wiped out the defenses for) before the transport arrives.  Another I saw but couldn't figure out how it happened was Arcean over-construction of freighters even though the code explicitly says IF # of TradeRoutes is >= NumberAllowed then don't build any freighters.

You might be surprised how often changing a number makes something like starbase building go from not building any starbases to building hundreds evne though the changes would imply only a slight change.  Such is the nature of AI development.


Comments (Page 1)
2 Pages1 2 
on Sep 06, 2006
That is a lot of good news.

Is it still set to release tomorrow?
on Sep 06, 2006
Sounds really good even if the AI development isnĀ“t ever really finished

My biggest hope is that the weird rallypoint bug has been eliminated.
on Sep 06, 2006
Tomorrow can't come soon enough.
on Sep 06, 2006
+ Starting population now 8 billion on the home planet

+ Morale on home planet gets a 20% bonus


? I thought homeworlds were pretty good but this probably helps the AI.

+ AI will tend to try to "finish off" its enemies


+ AI players will not go to war for military reasons unless they have enough military forces to deal some immediate pain.


+ All AI will tend to mobilize for war now BEFORE going to war (i.e. start to send ships near the border rather than declare war and have months of phoney war. We have ideas on making it even better in the future.).


Thank you, Thank you, Thank you.
on Sep 06, 2006
The AI improvements sound great!


+ CPU for AI algorithm option enables AI ships to be re-designed twice as often.

I play games on a gigantic map, everything abundant, and very fast research so a lot happens even in 6 months! Maybe AI Ship Redesign Frequency Should be Keyed to the Research Rate or every time the AI gets a tech that affects ship design.


+ Terran Alliance based AI players will put early priority on factories as the first thing to build rather than a star port.

Good! All AI players should build a factory before anything else. What do the other AI players do?


...the funny thing about writing "smart AI" is that you often run into three different issues: a) Knowing the strategy Convert the strategy into code and c) Making sure that the strategy actually works.

It's item C that is the most frustrating at times. You'll see the AI do something incredibly stupid that you have code in there explicitly to keep it from doing that. ...Naturally, any time I go to debug it, THEN it works. Which is how many of these problems go - they sometimes do work as designed but often won't work at all.

Such is the nature of debugging a multi-threaded real-time program!
on Sep 06, 2006
Has the weird placement of Influence starbases been addressed at all?

I saw a cute response about sharing Yor tunes, and McDonalds in Moscow. Problem is, when I build them, and if they are in my influence sphere (used to keep their influence away), the AI will completely lose it and start threatening me like crazy and eventually declare war. I am unable to threaten or declare war without attacking. Even if we have good relations, I end up getting attacked. I an unable to ask for them to be disbaneded/removed, and if they are trying to trade tech/planets for the starbases, it is a very lame way of going about it since it will ALWAYS lead to war.
on Sep 06, 2006
+ All AI will tend to mobilize for war now BEFORE going to war (i.e. start to send ships near the border rather than declare war and have months of phoney war. We have ideas on making it even better in the future.).


yep, one of those human player tactics. heck, I often have a period of mobilization and border strengthening before I go to war. So it would be something to watch out for.

I agree with Moliska (is that how you spell it?), those influence base thing is annoying. It's understandable if they are on their border to keep thier planets from revolting, but it's annoying when they put it deep inside my territory.

The minor races really have nothing else to do but place influence bases around and send frieghters out (there are exceptions which include the more military minded minor races such as the Snathi).
on Sep 06, 2006
I decided To buy this game after reading several reviews that applauded both stardocks fanatical customer support and GC's brilliant AI. I see now that those factors are directly related, and this patch assures me tthat this title will remain on my hard drive for years rather than months - a feat rarely achieved only by a few great (rather than good) games. Thank you!
on Sep 07, 2006
hope the download is available soon
on Sep 07, 2006
hope the download is available soon


We get up to early.

I decided To buy this game after reading several reviews that applauded both stardocks fanatical customer support and GC's brilliant AI. I see now that those factors are directly related, and this patch assures me tthat this title will remain on my hard drive for years rather than months - a feat rarely achieved only by a few great (rather than good) games. Thank you!


The Game will stay on my harddrive for the following reason:

Yay I'm winning!

Wait what are the Torians doing?

The Yor just declared war on me.

No! not the Terrans too.

They all have an alliance.

Nooooo! You LOSE!

The Torians started it, The Yor joined in and the Terrans finished off the rest of my planets. I will never forget the first Torian fleet that had 42 disruptors on one dreadnaught wing. Those things killed me. It was also the first time I lost a TBS and the first time an AI designed a ship capable of beating the human player.
on Sep 07, 2006
Great work, very much appreciated.

I am looking forward to the next expansion.

A few requests, would it be possible to update the visuals for ground combat in the expansion?

1. So that the visuals reflect soldiering bonus and levels. When I research a new tech that creates better soldiering capabilities, it seems a bit bland when you the appearances of your troops does not change. Especially if you get a unique tech such as Tir Quan training it would be nice to have some visual (bling reflective of your alignment, maybe a cool banner carried by the troops) that shows that soldiers are tougher or if the enemy has it you can see that in the fights.
2. Is it possible to updating the visuals so that each race has a more distinctive race look for their soldiers...
3. At the beginning set up would it be possible to select your troops appearance, along the lines of when you choose your race colours for your ships at the beginning setup, would be great.

Will definitely put my money where my mouth is and pre order DA.

Thanks
on Sep 07, 2006
Hey, you know what Draginol? It's ok if the AI isn't perfect -- you are doing a fantastic job of updating it and trying to make it the best it can be. You continue to do that and I'll buy every game you guys develop and put out. Guaranteed. The support from this company is simply astonishing and you have no idea how much it affects your customers (or maybe you do!). In fact, just knowing that you there are nice developers is something. I'm not naming names, but I actually didn't buy a recent 4X game because of the developers' personalities.
on Sep 07, 2006
I agree with Moliska (is that how you spell it?), those influence base thing is annoying. It's understandable if they are on their border to keep thier planets from revolting, but it's annoying when they put it deep inside my territory.

The minor races really have nothing else to do but place influence bases around and send frieghters out (there are exceptions which include the more military minded minor races such as the Snathi).


Those influence starbases is the way the AI try to expand their range. This is needed to:

1) Scout distance corners for possible left over planets to colonize colonies
2) Scout your territory, keeping a tab on your military movement and determine weaknesses
3) Send freighters to your further planets (or maybe something beyond you)

There's really nothing wrong with putting those there, as they are usually very empty (no modules) except for the minor influence bonus that a default base generates. Changing this so that they don't build these will make them complete pushovers (not that they aren't now). This way, when a player wants to build up a force he also needs to avoid detection or have to blow the bases up and thus declaring war.

The reason they tend to use influence starbases for range is so that they can expand and gain some cash (from vacationing tourists) to make up for the construction. I've never been culturely conquered by the AI before, so I can't say if they ever try to upgrade these, but I'm pretty sure these bases just sit there acting like refueling depots and a radar blip until they are threatened (then they will get some defenses, of course by then it is too late).


I'm not saying it's perfect, but these bases does help the AI with it's terrible range/sensor balance. To counter this scout/range base, simply construct a base of your own nearby. Don't bother making it an influence starbase either, use a military or economic starbase instead (which one depends on the location) instead.

One of the flaws of the AI is that it is designed to think that building influence starbase = influence strategy, which makes sense until you factor in some human deception that can have the AI blow most of its reserve/production/planetary slots to counter a strategy that's not coming. If you're not out to exploit this weakness, then any normal base will be enough to counter the influence that an influence starbase generates without any influence modules.


If you really want to be evil, buy the influence starbase off of them after you fill the sector with 4 bases of your own. Then proceed to upgrade it as your fifth... the AI is so hopelessly confused, it will try to build new ones there to counter your influence and add range again, to which you can buy again. Before you know it, one single sector of influence and a dozen starbase bought later, the galaxy is bowing down to your surperior marketing campaigns.


Just some suggestions for you to try the next time you get annoyed...

... just goes to show that no matter how "good" the AI is, it will just be too good, for its own good.
on Sep 07, 2006
I agree with Moliska (is that how you spell it?), those influence base thing is annoying. It's understandable if they are on their border to keep thier planets from revolting, but it's annoying when they put it deep inside my territory.

The minor races really have nothing else to do but place influence bases around and send frieghters out (there are exceptions which include the more military minded minor races such as the Snathi).


Those influence starbases is the way the AI try to expand their range. This is needed to:

1) Scout distance corners for possible left over planets to colonize colonies
2) Scout your territory, keeping a tab on your military movement and determine weaknesses
3) Send freighters to your further planets (or maybe something beyond you)

There's really nothing wrong with putting those there, as they are usually very empty (no modules) except for the minor influence bonus that a default base generates. Changing this so that they don't build these will make them complete pushovers (not that they aren't now). This way, when a player wants to build up a force he also needs to avoid detection or have to blow the bases up and thus declaring war.

The reason they tend to use influence starbases for range is so that they can expand and gain some cash (from vacationing tourists) to make up for the construction. I've never been culturely conquered by the AI before, so I can't say if they ever try to upgrade these, but I'm pretty sure these bases just sit there acting like refueling depots and a radar blip until they are threatened (then they will get some defenses, of course by then it is too late).


I'm not saying it's perfect, but these bases does help the AI with it's terrible range/sensor balance. To counter this scout/range base, simply construct a base of your own nearby. Don't bother making it an influence starbase either, use a military or economic starbase instead (which one depends on the location) instead.

One of the flaws of the AI is that it is designed to think that building influence starbase = influence strategy, which makes sense until you factor in some human deception that can have the AI blow most of its reserve/production/planetary slots to counter a strategy that's not coming. If you're not out to exploit this weakness, then any normal base will be enough to counter the influence that an influence starbase generates without any influence modules.


If you really want to be evil, buy the influence starbase off of them after you fill the sector with 4 bases of your own. Then proceed to upgrade it as your fifth... the AI is so hopelessly confused, it will try to build new ones there to counter your influence and add range again, to which you can buy again. Before you know it, one single sector of influence and a dozen starbase bought later, the galaxy is bowing down to your surperior marketing campaigns.


Just some suggestions for you to try the next time you get annoyed...

... just goes to show that no matter how "good" the AI is, it will just be too good, for its own good.
on Sep 07, 2006
I agree with Moliska (is that how you spell it?), those influence base thing is annoying. It's understandable if they are on their border to keep thier planets from revolting, but it's annoying when they put it deep inside my territory.

The minor races really have nothing else to do but place influence bases around and send frieghters out (there are exceptions which include the more military minded minor races such as the Snathi).


Those influence starbases is the way the AI try to expand their range. This is needed to:

1) Scout distance corners for possible left over planets to colonize colonies
2) Scout your territory, keeping a tab on your military movement and determine weaknesses
3) Send freighters to your further planets (or maybe something beyond you)

There's really nothing wrong with putting those there, as they are usually very empty (no modules) except for the minor influence bonus that a default base generates. Changing this so that they don't build these will make them complete pushovers (not that they aren't now). This way, when a player wants to build up a force he also needs to avoid detection or have to blow the bases up and thus declaring war.

The reason they tend to use influence starbases for range is so that they can expand and gain some cash (from vacationing tourists) to make up for the construction. I've never been culturely conquered by the AI before, so I can't say if they ever try to upgrade these, but I'm pretty sure these bases just sit there acting like refueling depots and a radar blip until they are threatened (then they will get some defenses, of course by then it is too late).


I'm not saying it's perfect, but these bases does help the AI with it's terrible range/sensor balance. To counter this scout/range base, simply construct a base of your own nearby. Don't bother making it an influence starbase either, use a military or economic starbase instead (which one depends on the location) instead.

One of the flaws of the AI is that it is designed to think that building influence starbase = influence strategy, which makes sense until you factor in some human deception that can have the AI blow most of its reserve/production/planetary slots to counter a strategy that's not coming. If you're not out to exploit this weakness, then any normal base will be enough to counter the influence that an influence starbase generates without any influence modules.


If you really want to be evil, buy the influence starbase off of them after you fill the sector with 4 bases of your own. Then proceed to upgrade it as your fifth... the AI is so hopelessly confused, it will try to build new ones there to counter your influence and add range again, to which you can buy again. Before you know it, one single sector of influence and a dozen starbase bought later, the galaxy is bowing down to your surperior marketing campaigns.


Just some suggestions for you to try the next time you get annoyed...

... just goes to show that no matter how "good" the AI is, it will just be too good, for its own good.
2 Pages1 2