Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
It's a whole new world...
Published on October 22, 2006 By Brad Wardell In GalCiv Journals

Because there are asteroid fields that can be mined and provide resources to planets, we have had to relook at the planetary improvements.

Some of the changes have included:

  • A new type of improvement: Power Plants. These magnify the production coming in by X%.
  • Fertility clinics to increase population growth.
  • Much higher population limits so that lots of money can be achieved.
  • Morale is more affected by population than previously so reaching those limits will be tougher.
  • Lower level farms produce relatively little food so that new users won't run into big morale problems. Instead, we'll add an additional farming tech to gradually increase farming on planets.
  • We're adding a Food Distribution Center which will increase the % of total farm production.
  • Morale buildings will become significantly more powerful at the higher level so that you can keep people happy AS LONG AS you have researched the techs (entertainment networks won't be enough to get some 20+ population).
  • Vacation Capital Super Project will allow a single world to be a real fun place (i.e. high morale).
  • A new building called the Planetary Revenue Service PRS (one per planet) will increase the number of citizens that are taxed (right now a planet with 12B population only actually taxes 6B of the citizens, The PRS would increase that to ~9B which is a significant increase in the # of citizens you can get to).
  • Low-Level Factories won't produce as much as they currently do (making the asteroid fields more important).
  • Lab Networks (buildings that increase by a % your research)

The overall idea is that at the low level, money is easy to come by when you're getting started. Then it will start to try up if you don't build up your planets properly to get more population, more economic activity, etc.

For casual players, the system should be fairly straight forward -- simpler -- than GalCiv II. But for expert players, the gameplay becomes very sophisticated as planets now require a lot more choices than previous in terms of strategy. A LOT MORE.

In Dark Avatar, the relationship between food production, asteroid fields, and star bases will be very crucial. It does make writing the AI much harder (I'm going to basically toss out the planet improvement code in GalCiv II which I didn't write in the first place and that person isn't with Stardock anymore so we've been patching the planet improvement AI choosing code since release, better to scrap it and write it new with the new strategies in mind).

Another area I'm really enjoying is the re-design of ship values. A LOT More thought and experience has gone into the new values for how much hulls cost. 

Basically: The bigger ships will cost a LOOOT more. But they will be a LOOOOT tougher. A capital ship should be a capital ship. It should be a big deal. We want to encourage players to make a choice between fleets of smallish ships OR capital ships and have both be valid paths.  It will be very difficult to research both gigantic ships AND ultimate logistics for instance. You may not be able to get to both in a typical game which means deciding to have large fleets of small ships or smaller fleets of very very tough capital ships. 

Logistics have changed as well. A huge hulled ship now uses 10 logistics points and costs 320 just for the hull. BUT, it now has 150 space (about double) and 84 HP. 

So you could picture a couple of Huge hulled ships (using 20 logistics) with 300 space and 168HP having cost 640 to build...coming up against 16 small ships (48 logistics) with 384 space 128HP and also having cost 640.

The fleet of fighters would pack more punch per round but the hull ships would be able to take a bigger beating. There's so many factors to take into account (the time to research the corresponding techs, the "wastage" on building fighters -- i.e. can't build more than 1 fighter per turn, the "wastage" of a shot from a capital ship on a fighter -- a shot that does 20 damage on a ship with only 8 hitpoints isn't going to make it any deader).

The net result is that it just FEELS a lot better. Those capital ships are a big deal. There shouldn't be tons of them out there. One can imagine the best results being mixed fleets -- a couple of fighters and frigates to picket for the capital ships.

The other value I spent a lot of time on today was spies. We're going to have to put in an espionage branch because we want players to be able to put increasing amounts of money into spying.

By now, one thing you may have noticed is that money is going to be much more under control. At least, that's the intention. That it won't be nearly as hard to have lots of money to do things with but there will be a lot more choices on what to spend money on.  But at the same time, we want there to be a real gulf between new players and expert players. A lot more variance in strategic options than previous.

Where before you might just throw tons of farms on a planet or tons of factories, now there are other things to consider -- asteroids? Do you build a food distribution center? Should you build a Quantum Power Plant? And if so, should you re-direct the asteroid mining to that planet instead of the closer one?

Much of the final balancing will be in the hands of beta testers starting next month.

 


Comments (Page 5)
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on Oct 27, 2006
These changes sound just about perfect. One question--will DA be backwards compatible with saved hulls designs from "vanilla" GC2(including Kryo's Mod)? I spent alot of time designing and tweaking my Starfleet and Klingon race ships, and I don't want to have to start from scratch with DA if I don't have to.
on Oct 27, 2006
Going off of SrGalen's point #3 of having degenerating defensive power over rounds, I could see two technology improvements based off of this:

1. A technology that would return defense to 100% each round, as in the examples given on how this would work.

2. A technology that would actually restore HPs between rounds as a % of the hull size. This would be pretty effective on ships of any size, even if it was just a few HPs per round. Obviously larger ships would benefit more.


Since I envisioned this as a means to regulate combat effectiveness, I feel that this factor would be one of those that might be able to be modded, but not changeable in-game. (Outside of perhaps a global or mega-event.)
on Oct 27, 2006
One question--will DA be backwards compatible with saved hulls designs from "vanilla" GC2(including Kryo's Mod)?


Yes, though you may need to go and rename the files to fit with the new style system. The designs themselves should work fine though, since the format is the same and no parts have been removed.
on Oct 28, 2006
Thank you. Great mod, by the way.
on Oct 28, 2006
Suggestion - Make the PRS more effective on evil
on Oct 29, 2006
Suggestion - Make the PRS more effective on evil

Excuse me for sounding ignorant, but what is the PRS?
on Oct 29, 2006
Excuse me for sounding ignorant, but what is the PRS?


It's mentioned in the original post as being a planetary improvement that improves the actual number of citizens taxed.
on Oct 30, 2006
Ah! Thanks! However, That should NOT be more powerful for evuil. Evil is powerful enough as it is. It should be more powerful for GOOD. Not only do they need any advantage they can get, but good citizens would be more willing to sacrifice for their civilization than the self-serving good.
on Nov 05, 2006
You could imagine ships with a dozen weapons on them and there being several of them. Late game, that's a lot of rolling. Random numbers are pretty slow when you do enough of them.


HI, just my simple thoughts about GC2 very simple old-school battle system

ROLLS in this context that sounds like dicerolls - why not just calculate damage
like in MAX :

a unit has an attack(=damage)-, armor(or other defense), and hitpoint value -
Attacks always hits , the damage is reduced by enemy armor(or the corresponding defense value), then the remaining damage is removed from the target unit.

That means no lucky or unlucky rolls (and also saves our gigahertz machines from pseudo-random-numbergeneration

And you can extend that system to simulate things like saturation of enemy shields or pointdefense abilities or jamming of enemy weapons&countermeasures.

Oh btw. i hope that there will be a direct account transfer payment option (or the very special and expensive retail-CD-version in a bombsafe titanium casing)
on Nov 05, 2006
a unit has an attack(=damage)-, armor(or other defense), and hitpoint value -
Attacks always hits , the damage is reduced by enemy armor(or the corresponding defense value), then the remaining damage is removed from the target unit.

The problem with that is that if two ships with really, REALLY high defense attack each other, the battle could go on forever. The random rolls are there so this does not happen. I do wish that defense rolled higher numbers more frequently, which would make defense more worthwhile, but even then, there would still need to be random rolls.
on Nov 07, 2006
*ugh* and *ugh* again. Those new building types you described are a *very bad* thing to add game play wise. It comes down to this: KISS (keep it simple stupid). There is no practical need for more than one type building (one that makes a resource, the other that multiplies the production of that resource by some constant) as you will only build complexity while adding *nothing*, not one iota to game play. Now the player needs to worry about the ratio of producers to multipliers, and all of the sudden actual math is involved in everyday planetary management. Multiply that by a dozen or more planets to get a good indication of how not fun that is.

To boot, self sufficient planets are now at a huge disadvantage over specialized planets as you want to maximize on only on type of production in order to get the biggest bonus. In effect you’re trying to get your civilization as efficient as possible instead of actually having fun playing the game.

Also, the food distribution centers are seemingly pointless. You generally build far less farms than research centers or factories. Farms need a percentage bonus least of all.

You guys are walking a very dangerous line here. A far better thing to do would be to simplify planetary management so that most, if not all of it, could be accomplished directly from the galaxy map (think MoO 1). Again, multiply that by a dozen or more planets and you can witness how much more streamlined the game will become.

A slightly better solution would be to only allow one of these buildings for each planet, but again you’re better off just scrapping the idea. Cluttering the building screen with dozens of different buildings is still a bad thing.

Please, I’m begging you; scrap this horrible decision before it’s too late.
on Nov 08, 2006
The problem with that is that if two ships with really, REALLY high defense attack each other, the battle could go on forever. The random rolls are there so this does not happen. I do wish that defense rolled higher numbers more frequently, which would make defense more worthwhile, but even then, there would still need to be random rolls.


too bad i forgot to mention ammo (or supplies) limits - but then such a tactical problem is usually solved either on the operational or strategic level - overhelming numbers to saturate enemy defenses , using an "vs. - design" , or trying not to fight

but since stardock favs the cheap solutions in case of stalemate add "1" to the attacker like in risk
on Nov 08, 2006
Cluttering the building screen with dozens of different buildings is still a bad thing.


cant second especially this one enough !

I felt it with my own mod using those multiplier buildings in my personal mod (base 1.3 total rebalancing )- i had to watch each planet and count like ...oh my 6th factory finished now i have to build my fusion powerplant else i loose some important production points
but till then it just cluttered my build list - not worth it ! i was almost down to renaming "Factory" to "!!Factory" just to appear on top of the list - now thats very immersive !
on Nov 08, 2006
Those new building types you described are a *very bad* thing to add game play wise. It comes down to this: KISS (keep it simple stupid)...Cluttering the building screen with dozens of different buildings is still a bad thing.

I idea that these changes increase the human player's micro-management which is already a pain on a map with hundreds of planets! The increased complexity also makes it harder to make the AI intelligent. I think the current list of planetary improvements is already very long and like structures should be grouped under tabs.
on Nov 08, 2006
The planetary Governor's need a major overhaul. I want to be able to turn off auto-upgrading for specific things like farms for instance. The planetary Governor's is a great addition to the game but right now it is too weak, especially when you have hundreds of planets. Micro-managing is great, but there needs to be a way of doing it in a much easier way than it currently is implemented.
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