I think a lot of Americans are shifting towards having the same feelings you have... Bush has said that he wants to stay even if it means committing more troops. If we leave now I think that will just give the insurgents and terrorists a symbolic victory which could hurt us in the long run. Just a thought.

"If they put up another thug that helps terrorists and puts together a WMD program, we reserve the right to come in and replace him too."

This is the kind of attitude that has made Americans so universally distrusted. Frankly, only a fool would seriously think that we could sweep Saddam aside and build a democratic state similar to the British system of goverment. If the Iraqis are taken over by another Saddam, then next time we will not be going in for it would be pointless. That is the way their society functions, it is ingrained in them to obey dictator types.

That is the way their society functions, it is ingrained in them to obey dictator types.

That is the smartest thing I have heard you say SPM. No offense I agree with it.

As usual I am correct, they do not have political loyalties, only tribal ones.

I'm surprised to be thinking good things about you now Dragster. You've woken me up to something I never considered and that's the fact that there are people out there, like you, who believe that the real mission is over and if the Iraqis want the US out then the US should leave. That if the people you've been sent to help don't want it, then you should leave. Thanks for opening my eyes to that oft-ignored segment of society. We're so used to squaring off the 'left wing' against the 'right wing' that we forget there's a middle ground there. But as for what you said, I can safely say right now that the US isn't going anywhere and will not so much 'stay the course our will is unshakeable' as much as it 'won't run from Iraq'. The US, or more accurately, a few select all-powerful men, had the plans for invading Iraq a long time before 911. They knew, as we know but don't consider a motive, that Iraq has oil wealth beyond imagination, and they needed some way to access it. I'm referring to the energy documents Cheney is fighting to keep under wraps from the public. The circumstantial evidence (they won't release them so until they do it's all circumstantial) points to the US needing a reason to invade Iraq and the 911 event gave them the green light they had been so desperately awaiting. I give oodles of credit to the real American planners, for they see years into the future. They're plans today are given credence to the next decade, and they're absolutely wonderful at doing it. I'm sure you're heard about the '14 enduring bases' the US is currently constructing. That's not the actions of a nation willing to leave for whatever reason. The US is in Iraq to stay, the occupation will continue to be under full US control, and the following events will shadow and in fact mimic the actions going on in Israel right now. Random shooting of civilians, hatred towards their oppressors, random suicide bombings, all of it will be seen in the same light as the Palestinian conflict. I'm sure, judging from your words I kind of praised, five years from now you will be kicking yourself for ever having believed a single word of all the lies that were told in order to gain your support for the misled cause. I'm sure of it.

I think the US is making the right adjustment to find Saddams thugs, gift wrap them in Republican guard uniforms and return them to the Iraqi people. Most Americans are not all that thrilled about our people dying in droves for a bunch of ungrateful Iraqis, so I say it’s a good idea, let them be ruled by the republican guard and other Saddam thugs, these guys understand the realities of how to gain control in that region and for the right price they will go in and gain control without our soldiers having to fight urban combat while the world and al jazeera make a whole brouhaha about the brutality of “the crusading Americans.”

Saddam had it in for us and now he is gone; I personally don’t care what happens to the Iraqi people. I don’t care if the republican guard rules over them, just so long as whoever is in control of the Iraq does not develop weapons of mass murder as Saddam did.

I don’t think the American people want to sacrifice a lot soldiers for an ungrateful unworthy Iraqi people who are appearing at the scenes of carnage celebrating on our TV screens. Our objective is over, Saddam is gone, and I think its time to either target the insurgents with shock and awe II, or start wrapping it up.

I agree that if the Iraqi people were to vote against a continued US presence then we should leave. Let me also say that I think the poll results may be misleading. people are rather prone to telling pollsters one thing that they feel emotional about and then voting with a bit more consideration. It is one thing to tella pollster that the US should get out, and quite another to cast your ballot the same way when the only guards keeping you safe at the polling place are American troops.

For lack of quote tags,

"We need to send a message to the Iraqi's that we're not there for our sake"

If we're not there for us, we should have left as soon as it was established that we don't want to be there. I believe that has been the case all along. If our soldiers are there just doing what's necessary and "going through the motions" (which morale surveys show they are), then we shouldn't be there. Making ourself out to be "The Great Liberator" on the world stage isn't worth the amount of life being lost on both sides.

When it comes to Iraq, I'm not left wing or right wing. I'm American wing. I expect my government to do the things that are in the best interest to Americans.

I don't want my kid or someone else's kid dying for the sake of ungrateful Iraqi's.  We needed Saddam gone. He's gone. I would like the Iraqi's to have a stable prosperous democracy to be an example to others in the region on how successful open free societies can be.

But if they aren't willing to work towards that and want us gone, then so be it. I'll happily support us removing our troops and letting them duke it out. 

If we're not there for us, we should have left as soon as it was established that we don't want to be there. I believe that has been the case all along. If our soldiers are there just doing what's necessary and "going through the motions" (which morale surveys show they are), then we shouldn't be there. Making ourself out to be "The Great Liberator" on the world stage isn't worth the amount of life being lost on both sides.

We are there at this point for the secondary objective of trying to create a successful stable democracy in that troubled region to try to dry the swamp that creates terrorists. But it is a secondary objective, not the primary. For us, the threshold of pain is small.  Saddam HAD to be removed. Whereas we WANT Iraq to have a stable democracy. The latter is more optional.

Quote tags work fine here btw. Just highlight what you want to quote and click on the Q button.

It is ridiculous to even consider basing US foreign policy on a foreign poll. Let alone based on one from Iraqi citizens. By the way, this is the first poll ever in Iraq where it wasn’t 100% to 0%. These people have been told what to think for their entire lives. It’s barely been a year of Saddam-less rule!

What Iraq needs is some Iraqi leaders. Someone needs to step up and say that the US isn’t going to give us freedom; we have to give it to ourselves. And that is not by attacking them; it is by working with them to get them out of here. And tell the citizens they should stand up against the resistance and should strongly voice opposition to it. (this appears unlikely to happen anytime soon)

The United States does not back down and will never negotiate with terrorists. We will not be out of Iraq complete for MANY years. Bush will be re-elected and more progress will be made. THEN, a poll of Iraqis would hold more water.

I agree.

Have them vote on it. Not now but probably sometime in the beginning of next year or late this year. Once we leave we will surely be blamed anyway for whatever happens afterward with bombings and such but at least we won't be spending millions of dollars a week to set the country upright.

The only problem with that (that I see anyways) is that, yes, it was "cheap" to take him down but how cheap will it be when/if something similar happens again? We can at least give them a nice big push in the right direction before we jump ship. Leaving them to deal with this situation theirselves might even make things (in the long term) worse than had Saddam remained there.

No one can ever gaurantee a perfect government will be made there.

But the bottom line is this: After June 30, Iraq is being run by Iraqis. Let them have a referendum on it. If they want us to go, I'm more than happy to let our troops come home and let Iraq rot. 

As I wrote before the war my primary concern was that Saddam's regime was trying to put together WMD programs that, once sanctions were lifted, would become a real threat when combined with terrorists. Saddam's gone. In fact, Saddam is in a holding cell. Mission accomplished.  Setting up Iraq as a stable democracy is great extra credit. But it's just that -- extra credit.

Okay to everyone on here that said "We went there to get rid of Saddams WMD", uhhh...if Im not mistaken there was not Mission Acomplished for finding any WMD...thats mark one against the U.S., we went there and didn't find a thing that Bush said we would find..so why do you people keep bringing that up.
And Just like you guys want Iraqi's to rot...so they want you to rot...that kind of hate is self perpetuating, it never ends...If America really did care about Iraq (Which we don't) we would have taken out saddam, then traded in out army outfits for normal Iraqi clothes and started building roads, schools, farms whatever...and if Americans died, then it would have been "Truly" in the name of setting up a free Iraq, Iraqis would know that we truly we tring to help if we were rebuilding Iraq with no guns in our hands.
But there is no way in hell Any American (or very few) would sacrifice there life to rebuild Iraq in that way... So why did we even go...you guys got scared...let cheny perswade you with false evedence about WMD...and a stupid pre-emptive doctrine...and now were in over our heads...I say it serves America right...If we really were the best country, we would be humble about it...we would lead the world by our actions at home, and would wouldn't have to invade other countries to try and perswade the people that democracies work.
Changes come from within a country. the only country we need to worry about is our own...crappy leaders that feed you lines are no better than the people that belive them. This is a quote from bush "We belive in "transparency" because we are a free society" If this were true every american would have answers to their questions about Iraq... but we dont...