The nation state is getting weaker

Published on January 7, 2008 By Draginol In Politics

Great Britain. The United States. Canada. Italy. Belgium.

These are nation states. And their future is unclear.

Nation states have historically provided 2 key benefits: The ability to pool resources for a common defense and a single market.

Globalization and the slow pacification of the modern states of the world are taking away much of that benefit.

For example, what exactly does Texas get out of being a state in the United States? What about British Columbia in Canada? What benefit to they get out of being part of Canada? What benefit does Scotland derive from being part of Great Britain?

I am not saying that these nation states are going to fall apart any time soon. But in the long-term, the forces keeping these states together is going to keep getting weaker until it's only inertia that doesn't split them apart.

Comments (Page 2)

Leauki

on Jan 10, 2008

They've only had a common language since the first unification. Even today the elderly from opposite sides of the country can experience difficulties understanding each other's dialects.

That doesn't mean anything. I certainly have problems understanding certain dialects over in England. Dialects are functions of area as well as culture. Germany is, for European standards and considered over the centuries, HUGE; and the region where German culture dominates or once dominated is even bigger.

The idea that Jews share more with each other than with their immediate neighbours - that there is a Jewish race which is unique and wholly separate from its cousins. That this was false was quickly discovered as Israel was first forming - the differences between the views of European, Russian, American and African Jews caused a small amount of conflict which may have caused trouble if it wasn't for the huge problems the country faced purely for its own survival.

I have never heard the word "pan-Judaism" used in that (or any) context. What you are describing is just Judaism. It's not to Judaism as pan-Germanism is to Germany.

For what it's worth, there is a Jewish people which is unique and wholly separate from other peoples, to the same extent that there is a German people unique and separate.

The issues in Israel were mostly between middle-eastern and German Jews, whom you might call two distinct peoples. However, all Ashkenazim (German or European Jews), in all European countries shared pretty much the same culture and language.

Leauki: Why does everywhere have to be the same as everywhere else? Since the US is a nation states, so you're entire premise is flawed.

??? Where did I say that everywhere has to be the same as everywhere else???

The US is NOT, definitely and absolutely not, a nation state. The argument that it is a nation state because it is a nation state is circular. "Nation state" means something, and if that definition includes the US, the term becomes useless.

That doesn't make my "premise" flawed. (What premise???)

A nation state is, as I said, "a sovereign state whose citizens or subjects are relatively homogeneous in factors such as language or common descent".

Germany is a nation state. The US is NOT a nation state.

The difficulty with using a looser definition for the term becomes obvious when Great Britain is used as an example of a "nation state" falling apart. Because those factions that make it fall apart are NATIONALIST factions who want NATION STATES. They want to _replace_ the UK with nation states, they do NOT see themselves as opponents of a nation state at all.

But this isn't my premise, it's simply what "nation state" means. And if you use the term "nation state" to include the US, you can just as well use the word "state" instead, because the entire term "nation state" is useless if it doesn't describe a particular type of state in relation to a nation.

Americans are a nation because the US is a state. Germany is a state because Germans are a nation. That's why Germany is a nation state.

Using your (new) definition of the term, what exactly would be a state that is NOT a nation state? (If there is no state that is not a nation state, the term "nation state" becomes redundant, doesn't it?)

Dr Guy

on Jan 10, 2008

I have been following your and Cacto's discussion with keen interest. Thank you both for that.

I read Cacto's comments on the subject of language and immediately thought of the differences here in the states. And can think that would be an even better example of where a people are separated by a common langauge. The roots are the same, but the usage is vastly different. I am not talking about Je to Me, but from what Hero is in Philadelphia to what it means in Iowa. Many people in the US have a difficult time understanding the vernacular of a region outside their own, yet they use the same words and dictionary.

Thanks to Cacto and you for a very enlightening and interesting discussion.

danielost

on Jan 10, 2008

I hate to remind you people but the majority of Europeans are Germans. the original Europeans were replaced by the German tribes.

there are a few left. scotts, Irish, Welsh, a small nation between Spain and France, and others. oh and the Greeks.

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