Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
Well who am i to say...?
Published on June 7, 2004 By Draginol In Philosophy

One of the things that always bugs me is when people say things like "the truth is somewhere in the middle" between two parties.  I hear that kind of moral equivalence argument all the time. But where the heck does it come from because while technically true, in spirit it is not.

In my experience, when two parties disagree about some issue and have different versions of events, odds are that one of the parties accountings of events will be predominantly true and the other party's predominantly false. I talked to a lawyer friend of mine about this the other  day who has concluded the same thing.  In fact, as often as not, disputes arise precisely because one person is lying and the other person is telling the truth.

This got me thinking about falling outs between friends like the one I wrote in my friendship article. The events I described there aren't open to interpretation, those are the facts. Interpretation comes into play when deciding whether one party had a legitimate reason for feeling wronged or not. 

More recently, our company was involved in a lawsuit. I posted the facts as we saw them publicly which were pretty damning to our opponents. I did that because we believe in a very simple philosophy: If you practice your business honorably then you can operate transparently and the facts, when known, will always be to your advantage. But sure enough, a few people still said "Well, that's Stardock's side, I'm sure their opponents have a different take on things." My argument was that no, there wasn' t a different set of facts. There was only one set of facts.  If the case hadn't been settled, I would have been more than hapy to publicly post the complete transcripts (other than the parts our opponents consider confidential) from both sides from discovery along with affidavits from both sides.

This is doubly true when you bring things up onto the macro-scale. There is a tendency in politics to try moral equivalent arguments. It's as if it has become politically incorrect to take a stand on beliefs that are based on cultural roots rather than literal facts.  For instance, if party A believes that it is wrong for party B to kill their children and eat them as food in the service of their sun god, I'm willing to go out on a limb here and say that party B is in the wrong. Yet these days there seem to be many people ready to jump up and say "Well, who are we to say..."

Great evil can be done because good people don't act. Similarly, great harm can be done if we take the easy route and assume that both parties in a given dispute are in the wrong.

Sometimes, there really aren't two sides to any story.


Comments (Page 2)
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on Jun 09, 2004
"In my experience, when two parties disagree about some issue and have different versions of events, odds are that one of the parties accountings of events will be predominantly true and the other party's predominantly false."

"For instance, if party A believes that it is wrong for party B to kill their children and eat them as food in the service of their sun god, I'm willing to go out on a limb here and say that party B is in the wrong."

I think most people agree with the first quoted statement above. The reason they want to hear party B's side of the story is because party A might be hte one that is lying. You see this all of the time in politics. Bush said this! Kerry said that! In either situation, I don't trust the person making the claim and go read the transcript (if I can find it). In a lot of cases, the claim being made is factually true in that Bush or Kerry did say something, but misleading in that it is out of context or some other such thing. Sometimes the claim is dead on. Either case is important. I find that, in politics at least, there are very few people I trust to give me the full story or the straight facts. It could be that some party B member said "My wife and I are going to a picnic where we will eat some veal cutlet sandwiches and sit in the sun. We love sitting in the sun!" or some such thing which was distorted and rephrased (veal=baby cow which is just like baby humans, right!? And loving the sun obviously means they worship the sun, right?) until you get the quote listed above. Obviously, my example is crude and absurd, but so was the original quote:P

This is why I tend to want to hear the other side of the story. Often other facts come out or I find that the person making the claim is the one who is lying about the facts. Obviously, if you go to great pains to always tell the truth, and someone doesn't immediately trust you, it hurts. But someone who doesn't know you doesn't have enough information to just take your word for it...
on Jun 09, 2004
First, Selene is a total troll. They oughta ban that IP address from posting.

Back to the fun stuff: So yeah, I'm not really prepared to debate the values of postmodernism. It's a whole movement, so it's a very broad term. I'd also agree that a lot of it is silly. But then, it has many persuasive arguments. Many many. One of the arguments that I find persuasive is that terms like "civilized" are basically colonialist residue. So chuck 'em out of the discourse, and it's more fair to everyone. But as I said, I can't argue for the framework, because I both don't want to bring things in that aren't here already, and because I am not that certain of it. That said, it has much less to do with idealism than you think, and much more to do about fair communication. If you've read another thread in which I've participated (the one about "legalizing prostitution") you'd see that I use non-gendered terms like sex workers. It's a matter of style, mostly.

I guess I also debate in the NW US, and that's informed my debate style, because the judges can be communists, and are at least firmly po-mo in their expectations of discourse.

Your guess about my age is spot on, by the way. I turned 21 yesterday.

OK! I'm done my total threadjack! When I get a chance I'll make a new thread about ethics and the validity thereof.
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