Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
The issues of F 9/11 exposed..
Published on July 1, 2004 By Draginol In Politics

Most of the propaganda peddled in Michael Moore's new Fahrenheit 9/11 basically boils down to playing tricks with the old 6 degrees of separation concept and crude manipulation of statistics. As I wrote in my other article, I don't tend to have a lot of patience for gullible people. People who buy into propaganda strike me as weak minded. If someone buys into some crackpot conspiracy theory I don't tend to feel like I should put in the effort to debunk it. It's a lot easier to fabricate a bizarre theory than it is to debunk it and the gullible aren't worthy of the time involved in providing that debunking.  Moore's film is full of, IMO, crackpot theories and crass manipulation of statistics.

Early in the film, Moore claims how Bush has not been working 45% of the time.  This statistic is really representative of the entire film in many ways because it is true and yet misleading.  If you count weekends and Bush's working vacations (i.e. where he meets with foreign leaders, does press conferences, etc.) and work the timing just right, the statistic is true.

But like all statistics, it can be abused.  I tend to work 60 hours per week. But I only work around 40 hours at the office. With these two data points all kinds of interesting statistics could be created.  If I work 5 out of 7 days of the week (full time) I automatically have 30% of the time off.  Since 9/11 occurred just after Bush finished his yearly vacation, there were only 8 months in the work year for the President thus far (because he was inaugurated in late January).  Now bear in mind, if he worked every day without a day off between his first day in office and 9/11 he would already have 30% of the time off.  Throw in some vacation days and voila, you're at 45%.  Moore's statistic came from a Washington Post article that indeed counted weekends as time off.  This is, by no means, the worst distortion of F 9/11. It is simply representative of the kind of intellectual dishonesty throughout.

In 2002, a full year after 9/11, Moore claimed in a TV interview that Bin Laden should be considered innocent until proven guilty. Yet, in his movie, he jumps all over Bush because Moore's hero, Richard Clarke, allowed Saudi and Bin Laden family members to return overseas. What about innocent until proven guilty? Error #1 in the movie - those people left AFTER the airspace was reopened not before as claimed in the movie and they were interviewed by the FBI contrary to claims in the movie (source: 9/11 commission).

The 6 degrees of separation stuff really comes into play when Moore tries to use the Carlyle group connection to tie Bush, Bin Laden, and the Saudi Royals.  This is akin to arguing that if you have stock in Exxon and Bin Laden has stock in Exxon that you two are tied at the hip.  Newsweek has a pretty good article debunking a lot of that nonsense.  One has to wonder at the gullibility of people who buy into the oil connections alleged here.  Are there really people out there that think there is some vast conspiracy between the Bush family, the Saudi royals and Bin Laden? Apparently it's a conspiracy so vast that the 9/11 commission, which investigated into these kinds of connections in exhaustive detail, must be part of it and covering it all up.

Which brings us to Moore's other premise which is that essentially unnecessary American wars are started by elitist rich white men whose own sons are safely insulated from the action while the poor and downtrodden of America are left to fight it out.  In the film, Moore is sympathetic to the poor underclass who gets sucked into the rich man's wars. This is an absurd argument given that our military force is all volunteer.  Moore plays with people's emotions while hoping to get viewers to forget that most jobs in the United States have particular demographics involved.  Ever looked at the socio-economic background of most fire fighters? Or police officers? Should the "rich elites" of the world have their children assigned to be policemen or firemen?  Somehow I suspect Michael Moore would be quite pleased if the government were there to assign everyone what their job should be. But in a free society, people are free to choose what they want to do.

All of which brings us back to a fairly basic problem with the film: It has no point. It's just a long pointless diatribe. It's criticism without alternatives.  Moore, who opposed US action in Afghanistan and claimed it was all for an oil pipeline anyway, later in the film argues that Iraq is a distraction from Afghanistan. Well which is it? Serious people have to make serious decisions. If Moore had had his way, the Taliban would still be in power and so would Saddam.  This is a good thing? Can anyone honestly say that we're not better off with Saddam and the Taliban gone?

Personally, I don't think Moore really cares that much about these issues. I think it's about the money. He says outrageous things (such as once saying to the former Mayor of New York that he doesn't see why Americans think of Terrorism as a "big deal" as we're more likely to get struck by lightning than to die in a terrorist attack) to raise controversy and awareness for his books and films.  The difference between Moore and any other obnoxious hyperopinionated ideologue is that Moore happens to be a pretty talented film maker. 

As time goes on, I am sure there will be collections of distortions from his film listed on the net just like there was for his other "documentary" Bowling for Columbine.  But I suspect that like last time, Moore will get away with his propaganda largely unscathed because so many people want to believe what he says.  After all, the terrorist group Hezbola has endorsed it and hopes to distribute it as far as it can. That really says it all, doesn't it?

Interesting Links:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5251769/site/newsweek/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5335853/site/newsweek/site/newsweek/
http://www.mensnewsdaily.com/archive/k/k-misc/king062704.htm
http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/

Interesting Statistics:

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/iz.html
(Iraq only exports ~$7 billion annually. Any argument that the war in Iraq was to get Iraq's oil represents a profound ignorance of global economics. Iraq simply isn't valuable enough to justify going to war there to steal its oil).


Comments (Page 2)
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on Jul 01, 2004
Personally, my problem with Bush is that he has always acted arrogant and above accountability, and many republicans who walk lock in step with him toss out insinuations that to question him is somehow unAmerican.

I will give you that much of what I have heard about "Fahrenheit 9/11" sounds as if it is deliberately distorted data. I have not seen the movie, and do not intend to until it is released on DVD. My chief disappointment with Moore (who hit a homerun with "Roger and Me" in my opinion; one I do not hold so highly of "Bowling for Columbine") is that he has simply jumped on the "bash Bush" bandwagon. I have many issues with the Bush administration, but do not feel that there is anything in the man to make him so callous and malicious as to sacrifice the lives of 3,000 of his countrymen over an issue simply of oil. I believe Bush acted in what he FELT was the best interests of the nation, because, frankly, he seems to be yet another president who is more concerned with the legacy he leaves than with making the tough, right decisions.

I will say this, however: I think the vast majority of Americans are reacting to current events with far less than what could be conceived as a passable knowledge of ALL of the details surrounding them (I would include myself in this statistic at times), and that there is much about the current situation that we do not, and CAN not know at this time due to the fact that it would endanger the lives of all of our troops over there. Whether hawk or dove, I think it can safely be said that we have a common objective in wanting our soldiers home safely.
on Jul 01, 2004
These naive twits will never understand that no matter what had been decided someone would have made money. Better without the Taliban and Hussein than with, wouldn't you say? Otherwise they would have simply been more empowered by the transaction.


Baker, I'm a little disappointed. You're usually a bit more objective in the nature of your responses. I don't think of everyone who criticizes the actions as being "naive twits". Personally, I take umbrage to that.

While I agree that the Moore movie is apparently just pop garbage set out to appease a liberal agenda(haven't seen it, but haven't heard a Moore supporter utter one argument I haven't heard a million times before), I think that intelligent questioning and properly directed criticism is not only permissible, but essential. If Bush WERE acting like a dictator, the questioning would have since "found it out".

That being said, the one point on which you and I are in complete agreement is that we are better off without the Taliban and Hussein. While I question the MEANS of removing Hussein, I will NOT question that the end outcome was proper (especially since our soldiers showed what true officers and gentlemen they can be by not "accidentally" pulling the trigger while they were extricating Saddam).
on Jul 01, 2004

Drag... you seem to be missing the point. Iraq may not be wealthy enough from oil alone, but the impression our adminstration had is the exact opposite.

I suspect that the administration, like most people remotely familiar with this subject, were well aware of Iraq's GNP/GDP before the war. In fact, rumor has it that even the government has access to Google.

How much oil Iraq produced before the war wasn't exactly a secret. Just because you find it all complicated and unknowable doesn't mean others don't know. I find it rather sad that you cling to the whole "It's all about OILLL" thing.

But hey, for you, let's assume you're right. It was all about the ooilllll. Yes, we went into Iraq purely and only to obtain Iraq's oil. In fact, assume that Bush, Cheney and the other "Neocons" are now living high on the hog from stolen Iraqi oil.  So what? I could give a rat's ass what the personal motives of an action are. I care about the action itself.  Clinton should have removed Saddam in 1998. And after 9/11, Saddam being in power was simply not a luxury we could afford any more.

on Jul 01, 2004
Micheal Moore is nothing more than a profiteert; he is out to made his name in the world of big business. And, this he has done because of people who are looking for someone who can explain to them what is going on on this planet. Some people (not all) like to have someone show them in the easy way possible how they can understand what it is that is being said by the statesmen of today. People are thrown bits and pieces of information through the news media; this media can be newspapers, magazines, or visual (TV, Movies), etc. Still they find it difficult to understand, so they go looking for it somewhere eles. Guess where that somewhere is; yes ladies and gentlemen it comes from the Moores' of the world. Thus, Moore's movies become gospel. There is nothing coming out to disapprove what he is saying, or showing people. The visual is the greatest part of the whole; it is easier for people to believe what they see then what they hear or read. What Moore is doing is feeding on peoples mines through the visual media.

I have seen Moore's precious two movies (not going to comment on them), but even as a democratic/liberal I will not go see this movie. I believe in this country and what it stands for, thus can see know reason to add another $5.50 (Senior Rate) to Moore's pockets.

Pam
on Jul 01, 2004
Oh what the hech, I am off to see "Spiderman 2"

At least this will be mindless fun, and will not require me to use a great deal of brain cells.

Pam
on Jul 02, 2004
Drag, I didn't say it was all for oil. All I said is that given the information provided to Congress before the war the argument that oil played a role in the decision is not an invalid one. Personally I think Bush wanted an Iraq war from day one because of his Dad, but that's a different topic altogether. I just don't think the oil argument should be thrown out altogether as a potential factor.
on Jul 02, 2004
*sigh*

The war was partially sold on inflated estimates of Iraq's potential pumping capacity. Note: POTENTIAL pumping capacity. Since no one really knew the state of Iraq's oil fields and infrastructure, and Iraq's production for the past decade has not been subject to market conditions (due to the oil-for-food program), this is NOT something you can just look up on google.

It was also sold by underestimating the cost (SOP for the Bush administration, seemingly).

Put the two together, and you get the prewar argument that Iraq would be able to pay for a large part of its own reconstruction.

[tangential rant]
Whether the administration actually believed these fantasies, I don't know. I doubt it, though. I have learned from the past few years of watching Bush "budgets" never to believe a number that comes from this administration. I can't see how anyone could pay even a little bit of attention to the way Bush has sold his budget numbers over the past few years--not just on Iraq, but on anything--and call Bush a "straight shooter." Someone in the White House seems to believe that the public can't tell the difference between numbers above fifty billion dollars.
[/tangential rant]
on Jul 02, 2004
Vor: I think oil was a factor for strategic reasons. But that isn't the argument being given. The argument Moore and his ilk give is that Bush and his buddies will personally get rich off the endeavor in which there is no credibile evidence to support that.
on Jul 02, 2004
Wait... if the argument is that the war is to personally enrich Bush, then isn't all this stuff about oil exports versus cost of war completely irrelevant? Bush isn't personally paying for the war.
on Jul 02, 2004
vincible: It's hard to figure out exactly what the "it's all for oil" people mean. Sometimes they mean individuals getting rich and other times they mean "America" generically getting rich.  Keep in mind that those who make these claims don't tend to be the brightest bulbs out there.
on Jul 02, 2004
Drag, first, stop calling everybody that doesn't agree with you dumb. It is inconsiderate of your fellow human being and if you really feel so above everyone else simply because of the views you hold then you are the exact sort of American that the rest of the world hates. Arrogance is not a substitute for knowledge.

And, by the way, did you even SEE Fahrenheit 9/11? The oil claim is not there for Moore as you keep saying. Moore claims that the Bush family stood to gain from increased defense spending post-911 due to family investment ties in the Carlyle Group who owns United Defense (makers of the Bradley). That argument comes from the mouth of another person he is interviewing who specifically researched this. Moore says on his own that since the wealthiest people of the Saud family work directly with Bush family members and Carlyle, no action against Saudi Arabia would be possible after 9/11 even though 15 of the 19 hijackers were Sadui. Therefore, according to Moore, Bush decided to pin the issue on Saddam. As you have told me many time to listen to the 9/11 commisson on your other threads, let's remember Saddam as that guy that the commission says never collaborated with Al Qaeda. Moore then, yes *gasp*, uses Richard Clarke's interview to bolster the argument.

Oil DOES appear on some of the picket signs that are visible when Moore shows clips of protests with such scandalous voice overs as "these people are protesting the war", but nowhere in Moore's argument. It is also excalimed by a woman who is picketting the white house during a conversation with Lila Lipscomb (mother of a son who died in Iraq). Moore never makes the argument you are putting in his mouth as propoganda... and if you would take the time to look at his work before you blow up at everyone on the face of the planet, you would see that Moore actually did something you seem blind to as you hid behind the CIA website. Moore did research. He interviewed people who did even more research, and then he had a whole team of people research his research to make sure that people like you would never be taken seriously as they have never once cited a flaw in his facts.

And that Moorewatch.com group you linked to? The one's that will expose Moore's lies? They're about to get sued by Lion's Gate for posting a "quote" on the site that is not actually from Moore but is upheld as by him (i.e. it's a lie from the site) saying "download my movie as long as you don't profit" and then linking to a bogus file of the movie. If the link didn't work, okay no problem happens to everyone, but it's a deliberately bad file.... I consider that a second lie, but even if you only want to settle with one lie on your side we've found infinitely more than as many on Moore's side as he has, again, failed to lie about anything. That bastard propoganda machine! Can you point to something he lied about in the movie, Drag? Even if he said it was a war for oil, how do you know he isn't right and you aren't wrong? You don't know for sure it wasn't, nobody knows anything for certain unless they are actually IN the inner circle of the white house. Even if Moore said "Bush is a terrorist" it would not be a lie... he didn't say that he didn't sleep with Monica when he actually did or anything... he's just giving his honest opinion that he has just as much right to as you do Drag. Moreover, he spent years researching his opinion and checking himself wiht a team of lawyers to make sure his opinion is solidly evidenced. Or maybe, you're just the brightest bulb out there and are above research.
on Jul 03, 2004
My GOD, aren't people obtuse...

Take if from someone that has suffered the same problem for years. If you find yourself saying the same thing more than three or four times, just don't say it any more. They've heard you, they don't believe you. All that awaits you is an ulcer and carpal tunnel syndrome.

Not saying I am much better, but I am self-destructively obsessive in the pursuit of my own futility. Others need not waste their time.

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