Democrates claim the forged documents was a Republican set up.

I personally blame the Jews for this one!

So, you would vote for Kerry if you thought Bush had skipped out on duty? Is that correct?

This isn't going to change anybody's opinion, just like it won't change anybody's mind if the allegations by the Swift Boat Veterans were true. However, if the allegations made by the SBVs are false, then there'll be many people out there criticizing the ad as well as Bush's campaign for having a lawyer in it who assisted the SBVs. The ad will even be parodied on the Daily Show and other shows.

Daiwa:

Well, I think Draginol said it best when he complains that the media reporting gets a free pass on choosing stories. The only thing about 60 Minutes is that it is not a news programs per say but a magazine which doesn't purport itself to be complete. But, depending on the "expected" ratings stories are run or not run. A few years ago when the cigarette "insider" story broke and how CBS caved to the smoking lobby it should have been obvious that advertisers exert huge influence on programming.

As for the Swift Boat Vets and other 527 advertising....my only comment there is that Bush was saying he was trying to find a legal way to stop all 527's. Is Bush responsible for not pursuing this?

Reply #40 By: CrispE - 9/10/2004 3:08:18 PM drmiler: So, you would vote for Kerry if you thought Bush had skipped out on duty? Is that correct?

Nope! I would be one of those who didn't vote at all!

Actually, it is a coincidence of remarkable degree that using the default margins and font size (TNR 12pt) of an Office Word New Document Template duplicates the typography of the alleged memo so closely. You should try it - kinda fun. And I no longer accept as plausible the Kos argument that the Word document was "shrunk" to 400 pixels or whatever to force it to match or overlay. The only detail that doesn't quite fit is the "th" in 187th. The letters don't extend above the topline of the numerals in the Word document, whereas they do in the CBS-released document. Best I can tell, you can't modify the size or positioning of ordinals separately in Word - just turn the autoformat feature on or off - so maybe the document was done in a different slightly different font or is a WordPerfect or StarOffice document.

Is it possible that document was typed in 1973? Yes. Is it possible elephants could fly? Yes.

We'll just have to wait for CBS's document experts to come forward - they got some serious splainin' to do. Time will tell if elephants can fly.

Cheers,
Daiwa

We'll just have to wait for CBS's document experts to come forward

cbs evening news tonite (9/10) exhibited a document previously released by the whitehouse as part of the official bush service records which very clearly had a similar superscript 'th' (some sort of payroll thing) and rather says there is yet another one dated 1968 that also has that superscript thing.  

like i said on another thread (and crispe mentioned earlier in this one) ibm selectric machines were capable of superscripting like that according to my sister who typed 100s of dissertations using one during the years 1969-1972.   proportional font elements were not terribly exotic. 

aside from those considerations, why did the whitehouse release copies of the same documents without comment once theyd seen them (cbs faxed them to the whitehouse prior to that broadcast).   why no whitehouse denial as to their authenticity?  karl rove took the week off?

Is Bush responsible for not pursuing this?

Well it would take an act (law) of congress to ban it, do you think Congress would pass a law banning it, and just think how long it would take for them to get the law through congress and onto the President's desk so it can be enacted into a law that takes affect the next fiscal year. Oh well. They should be banned, problem is secretly both parties would support a ban on them unless they got enough pressure on them so that would be good to see.

The president does always have the oh so powerfull executive power that he has invoked in the past.

True, but he has been castrated so many times for using it without approval that who won't do it without approval, unless there was a dire emergency and the 527s threatened our National Security.

Well he did go to war without congress approval, and there was certainly no dire emergency there.

ibm selectric machines were capable of superscripting like that according to my sister who typed 100s of dissertations using one during the years 1969-1972. proportional font elements were not terribly exotic.

Not quite....a few select models came out in early 70's...bout 72' onward...second...to make the superscripts...one needed to add a seperate type ball to the typewriter (dont really think a military clerk or commanding officer would do that just to put in the superscript...especially since to replace the type ball is not a 10 second operation)

Now...a few other matters...Most importantly and a deffinate sign of bad research on the forgers side....in the memo dated as Aug. 18, 1973...not incriminating in and of itself but when one reads the memo...Brigadier General "Buck" Staudt's name is mentioned as applying pressure regarding Bush...problem is Brigadier General Staudt retired in 1972...opps serious mistake....

as for cbs..well they fumbled the ball big time either out of neglect or outright plan of action....to air the episode as it was without any of Bush's commanding officers family, Bush's flight training officer, bunk mate, bout 6 other pilots who remember Bush being there and were willing to be interviewed because they were reportedly republicans or supported Bush in the upcoming election is somewhat at this point a hollow shell game.....do i think it was some great conspiracy between cbs and the kerry campaign...too little to say....i think it has more to do bout landing the knockout punch as it were report wise...in the process cbs, dan rather and the majority of news networks have shown the public that professionalism and journalistic ethics disappeared long ago....most americans knew this already...

I must add when these documents are proven forgeries....cbs as a whole, dan rather and 60 mins II will have hell to pay...as well as the certain individuals who authenticated them...not to mention those behind this....

whats next...documents leaking out to cbs,abc, nbc that shows Bush is using a ouiji board to keep in contact with hitler?

Forgery? Or evidence that the military has time traveling capabilities?

Why yes we do...using star trek as a ref....slingshot around the sun..picking up enough speed to achieve time travel....who knows worked well in the TV series twice and the movies once

Well he did go to war without congress approval, and there was certainly no dire emergency there.

That was what I talked about he got castrated because of it by half of the american public so now he won't do anything without first getting approval.
Reason why we are not in Sudan at the moment stopping the slaughter of innocent people.

BTW, some on the left are arguing that an IBM Selectric could have made the document. Nope. Not only could the Selectric not done it but it's $5,000 big brother, the Selectric Composer, which almost certainly was not used by a Colonel in the military to type up memos couldn't do it either.

A detailed analysis of the issue was investigated here:

http://shapeofdays.typepad.com/

Hate to get too bogged down in what type of superscript was available on what kind of machine & when, but do you have a link to more info about the additional documents CBS cited today, kingbee? Might be a tad moot if the Staudt in question was indeed the one who retired a year before, but I'm interested anyway.

Thanks,
Daiwa

That was what I talked about he got castrated because of it by half of the american public so now he won't do anything without first getting approval. Reason why we are not in Sudan at the moment stopping the slaughter of innocent people

Hold on now. Are you now saying that the half of america was wrong? He could have waited for approval. The point is that I don't think to many people would be furious if he outlawed 527's... except dems who are using them, but thats not for a good reason so screw that. But then you also have to do other stuff to curb donations.

problem is Brigadier General Staudt retired in 1972

while im still waiting for some definitive proof either way, i did see another bush service record (released earlier this year by the whitehouse) tonite on cbs evening news that appeared to have the same superscripted 'th'.   (changing those ball elements was a lot easier than switching daisywheels as i recall).  if the one from the whitehouse is genuine, its more likely that the others are too.   a retired general is still a general (they just fade away right?) and still able to pull in favors.  

Bush's commanding officers family

what could they contribute?  the best they could offer is hearsay evidence and an non-expert opinion as to the signature.  which was all the guy who worked with killean (storm?) could provide as well.

why hasnt the whitehouse called the cbs documents into question?