Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
Why conservatives run the world
Published on September 25, 2004 By Draginol In Politics

In the real world, I don't care much about politics.  Sure, I'll debate it with someone if they'd like but I'm not particularly motivated politically. On-line, I'll talk trash about politics taking a much stronger stance on positions than I would normally give since the point is to get energetic discussion going.

People who know me would describe me as a political "moderate" on most issues. But in reality, I'm all over the place. A left wing position here, a right wing position there. I cherry pick my ideology.  I'm very conservative on business/tax issues and somewhat liberal on social issues. But like I said, in the real world, I'm not motivated very much by politics. I deal with the world as it is. And in that sense, I am a conservative.

It's been my experience that people who are conservative tend to be more effective in getting things done. Things that actually do something. It's the liberals who do things that are described as "trying to make a statement".  Candle light vigils and showings of solidarity and other warm fuzzy activities make for good PR but ultimately are pointless. These activities are the hallmark of the left.

Go to a business conference of entrepreneurs and you won't find too many liberals there. In fact, the more successful someone is in the private sector, the more likely they are to be conservative. Outside entertainment and academia, you won't find that many wealthy successful liberals.

So why is that?  I think it's because conservatives deal with the world as it is rather than how they wish it was.  They are much more end result oriented. Liberals, by contrast, tend to be much more "wish really really hard that things were different".

Conservatives also tend to look at cause and effect. They have to because they end up being the ones who actually make decisions that deal with change in the real world.

Take the minimum wage or living wage advocates. They're the same people who also are against outsourcing of jobs. Well which is it?  They aren't willing to accept the reality that if you increase low skill labor costs that you are increasing the incentive to move the business out of the country. Conservatives don't have that luxury. They're the ones running those businesses. Raise their costs and they have to make some tough choices -- ones they'll be demonized for by the very people who advocated the policies that caused the problem.

And reality is a messy thing. There are no perfect solutions. There are no perfectly elegant solutions either. Most solutions require substantial trade offs.  Worse, those trade offs tend to get exponentially nasty as you near a "perfect" solution. 

Want 100% health coverage instead of 90%? Fine, expect massive trade offs in exchange in the form of waiting periods, a slowing in innovation, and decrease in quality of care.

Want to reduce CO2 emissions substantially today? Fine, increase the required gas mileage on cars to 35MPH. But that will mean the end of SUVs, mini-vans, and the subsequent loss of millions of jobs. Which some guy like Michael Moore would then promptly blame on "greedy fat cat businesses".

Want to "save" a few hundred acres of tundra in the ANWR? Fine, but expect our dependence on foreign oil to increase at a faster rate which helps fuel the problems in the middle east.

Conservatives, by their nature, tend to be much more pragmatic. They look for solutions. Real solutions. A protest march isn't a solution.  It's a hobby.  This tends to make conservatives seem like the bad guys because they end up having to make the tough real world decisions that have negative consequences for some even as they try to benefit the many.

Where the liberal would go all out to save a single person in the village, even if that meant potentially sacrificing the entire village, the conservative would be more likely to take the "cruel" but pragmatic route of letting the individual villager suffer for the good of the entire village. That's not because they like to see people suffer but because they have to weigh the larger issues.

It's sad that millions of children live in poverty. A liberal would argue persuasively that a nation as wealthy as the United States should ensure that no child lives in poverty.  A conservative would agree that it's a shame but that as a practical matter, unless you're willing to sacrifice the rest of the society for it, you're not likely to solve that problem. Virtually all children (statistically) that live in poverty do so because their parents made very bad and irresponsible choices. Every practical solution to solve this will end up seeming cruel (take the child away from the irresponsible parent looks cruel and adds more expense for instance).

Liberals are also the ones who push for more help for Africa.  A land where the populations are simply far too high to be supported by the land they are on (with some notable exceptions where corrupt government is the cause).  Do you send over food aid, artificially masking the underlying problem and creating generations of dependents living in misery? The liberal won't worry about that. They just want to show how much they care. The "cruel" conservative is more likely to look at the big picture. Consistent food aid creates extensive long term damage and can prop up corrupt and brutal regimes.

By the same token, liberals tend to be the ones who argue for AIDS treatments to be sent to Africa at low cost. Thus increasing the healthy life span of the millions of Africans who are HIV positive. Sounds wonderful doesn't it? Except that it also increases the length of time that the disease spreaders will be able to effectively spread the disease. 

Then again, liberal groups also got DDT banned for export which was the world's most effective way of killing mosquitoes. Malaria now kills millions of Africans because there is no substitute for DDT that is remotely as cheap and effective. But some birds are safe. Well, maybe.

I could go on and on but I think the point is made. It's not that liberals are bad. They're not. They're just ineffectual in the real world. They are too busy trying to do emotionally satisfying deeds rather than deeds of practicality.  Where they do have an impact is in stifling the ability of conservatives for doing what has to be done by constantly demonizing them.

Liberals decried the sanctions on Iraq that had allegedly killed 500,000 children. If you lift the sanctions, Saddam would have gone forward with his nuclear program (that, btw, is something that they did find ample evidence of in Iraq -- he was just waiting out the sancations).  The other option is to remove Saddam and put someone in that isn't going to try to create nasty weapons, invade their neighbors, and aid terrorists.  Those are your 3 choices and no matter which choice is made, the liberals will demonize the result.

Conservatives who try to put forth practical realistic solutions get demonized as being "hateful", "bigoted" and be called (of course) "Nazis" or "fascists" (even though Nazis and fascists were socialists and technically left wing -- Hitler was many things but the vegetarian artist from Austria was definitely not a conservative).  It's demonization that liberals have any general real world impact and that's only because they're impacting the people who actually do things in the real world - conservatives.

I don't expect to change any minds here. You'll have the liberals who have excessive free time trying to nit-pick my examples with exceptions to a generalization as if that somehow disproves the generalization ("Hey Bush is trying to send AIDS help to Africa too!") but none of that changes the bottom line: That the people who run the companies, who actually create the "stuff" we use, are almost always conservative in nature because to accomplish things in the real world means dealing with the world as it actually is rather than as we wish it was.


Comments (Page 4)
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on Sep 27, 2004
"The money gets eaten? That's just not true. That money goes right back in our economy. "


Actually, it is true. Between the money that is passed between departments, the federal reserve and government investments, and the money that is on its way to, and in the process of leaving the government, something like 40% of every speck of money in the nation is tied up at any given point.

It is like a juggler. if he has 5 balls rotating, he has three of them are in the air at any given time. Sure they eventually come down, but by that time three more have moved into the air. That is money that is basically not benefitting anyone but the government itself. It is like a big leach on the system.

When you consider what even 10% of the cash in the system amounts to, and consider what 10% more cash changing hands in the economy would do, it is a shameful waste.


WAIT...wait...wait... on second thought, isn't that an odd statement coming from you? You don't see a problem with a large amount of money being dammed up by the government, but somehow you don't believe money held by the wealthy goes anywhere?

Do they eat it? No, they spend it and more money comes in, just like the govenrment. Didn't you just defeat your own arguement?

on Sep 27, 2004
"Liberals are also the ones who push for more help for Africa. A land where the populations are simply far too high to be supported by the land they are on (with some notable exceptions where corrupt government is the cause). Do you send over food aid, artificially masking the underlying problem and creating generations of dependents living in misery? The liberal won't worry about that. They just want to show how much they care. The "cruel" conservative is more likely to look at the big picture. Consistent food aid creates extensive long term damage and can prop up corrupt and brutal regimes."

First, the idea that the population of Africa is too high for the 'land to support' is ridiculous. Israel is basically desert, yet they produce not only enough food for themselves, but enough to be a considerable exporter of agricultural goods. The population density of Israel is 282 people per square kilometer - only Rwanda's population is (slightly) denser. Most African nations are in the 100 and below range, with Kenya, Ethiopia, Benin, Swaziland, and Senegal being around 50, Zimbabwe at 28, Congo at 22, Chad, Guyana, Suriname, Botswana, Namibia, and a few others being 5 or under. There is more than enough land, and it's much more arable than that of Israel.

The 'notable exceptions' aren't exceptions at all. In fact, never in recorded history has famine been caused by anything but political incompetence or outright malice. No natural phenomenon is enough to starve people - the Irish Potato Famine did not lead to starvation because of the potato blight alone, but by the political interference of the British in free trade.

Africans starve not because the land cannot support food, but because they don't grow enough of it. The reason they don't grow enough of it is that they have piss-poor to nonexistent property laws, shoddy rule of law, and incompetent socialst governments. Their economies are stagnant to nonexistent, and a lack of capital coupled with the lack of a demand ('I'm hungry' doesn't count, we're talking people who want to BUY your goods) leads to no agricultural entrepeneurs. With the agricultural protectionism in Europe and the ultra-efficient agriculture of the US and Canada, the threshold for export-oriented agriculture is also much too high.

Africa as a whole needs rule of law and free market capitalism as soon as possible, as widely as possible. We need to make debt forgiveness and other foreign aid wholly dependent on their progress in instituting the framework for self-sufficience and prosperity.

But I feel it is a virtue to feed them regardless. It is a vice not to help them get back on their feet, but regardless of whether we do that or not, it is a virtue to help our fellow man. These are not the lazy welfare bums and 'homeless' of the West, these are people who are born into misery, live in misery, and die in misery, with no chance whatsoever to escape it. If we can feed them, then we should. I don't think this should be paid for by our taxes (like Chirac's ridiculous 'world hunger tax'), but rather by charity and volunteer work. Sometimes, governments can supply disaster relief if the private sector cannot react fast enough.

I find both the 'feeding them is pointless' idea and the 'their starvation is the result of OUR exploitation of the third world' idea to be abhorrent and not based in reality. These are human beings and no realpolitik, utilitarian justification can negate the fact that if we can feed a starving child and choose not to, we're monsters. And the lefitst blame game of the west exploiting these people is ridiculous - they're starving because they don't produce enough things to eat, let alone for us to bother stealing their nonexistent food!

As to American children living in 'poverty', this is ridiculous, especially in contrast to Africa. Western 'poverty' means having a PS1 instead of a PS2 and only one TV. Western 'poverty' means shopping for clothes at Value Village. Western 'poverty' means not affording college tuition and having to save up for dental work to be done. Non-affluence does not a pauper make. A mayonnaise sandwich every now and then does not make one 'poor'. It's hard for me to take leftists seriously if they think living in a heated trailer and having to cut coupons can somehow be described with the same word as Ethiopian children living in a dirt shack eating nothing at all.

Personally, I consider myself somewhere between a libertarian and a conservative. My personal idealistic flight of fancy is a dissolution of the UN, institution of the United Democracies, whose primary goal was the spread of free-market liberal democracies everywhere, and the toppling of tyrants with all-volunteer armies. The existence of North Korea, and other places where megalomaniacs and common bandits drive people to eating INFANTS, on our planet in 2004 is a dark stain on humanity's soul.
on Sep 27, 2004
Maybe it's because liberals aren't interested in creating wealth. Maybe they are more interested in spending their time making the world a better place to live.


There's nothing wrong with that, but the questions is: Are they doing something that is actually helpful, or are they doing something that seems/feels good but actually has not effect or is harmful.

A good example is people who spend a night sleeping in the streets in a sleeping bag to empathize with people who are homeless. That generates warm fuzzy feelings and publicity, but does it actually help anyone? On the other hand, someone who is volunteeting in a soup kitchen is actually doing something.
on Sep 27, 2004
It is like a juggler. if he has 5 balls rotating, he has three of them are in the air at any given time. Sure they eventually come down, but by that time three more have moved into the air. That is money that is basically not benefitting anyone but the government itself. It is like a big leach on the system.


Nice simile, but I get the sense that you aren't actually saying anything. Can you give some specifics or point me to a good article on the subject?

WAIT...wait...wait... on second thought, isn't that an odd statement coming from you? You don't see a problem with a large amount of money being dammed up by the government, but somehow you don't believe money held by the wealthy goes anywhere?


No, I have never argued that the money the rich has is eaten/wasted. Never. Not once. If you think I have then I urge you to read my positions more carefully and stop making assumptions.

Didn't you just defeat your own arguement?


Since I have never taken that position, no I didn't. However, you just defeated your own argument.

on Sep 27, 2004
"Nice simile, but I get the sense that you aren't actually saying anything. "


"Since I have never taken that position, no I didn't. However, you just defeated your own argument."


... ... 0_o... ... Abe, I really wonder about you sometimes...
on Sep 27, 2004
Oh come on BakerStreet, put up or shut up.

If you can prove me wrong I will admit it and thank you for the favor.
on Sep 27, 2004
Just to clarify, I am asking you to qoute me where I have made the argument that the money the rich have is eaten/wasted.

Also, if you don't see how you defeated your own argument just say so and I will point it out to you.
on Sep 27, 2004
Abe, pal, I spent the time writing a detailed explaination of the way the government soaks up a large percent of the cash. My time. If you don't want to accept it, fine, but I'm not gonna reiterate and research it further for you. It is pretty common knowledge. Debate by Attrition isn't all that fun, though I guess if you ask someone to re-explain themselves enough they will eventually gouge out their eyes and run away and you'll "win"...

on Sep 27, 2004

First, the idea that the population of Africa is too high for the 'land to support' is ridiculous. Israel is basically desert, yet they produce not only enough food for themselves, but enough to be a considerable exporter of agricultural goods.

Israel gets several BILLION dollars in aid each year. Give me $5 billion in aid each year and I'll support a million people living on an iceberg.

on Sep 27, 2004
BakerStreet, I am not asking you to do research for me, just asking for a good link so I can better understand your position. I would think that you would have such a thing handy if you know so much about the subject. If you don't fine, I will see what I can find with google.

Since you didn't say anything about my last two questions to you, I can only assume that you understand that you defeated your own argument and that I have never said that the money the rich have is eaten/wasted.

Also I noticed you changed your terms as you argued. You went from "eaten" to "tied up". Doing this changes the nature of your argument. Had you actually used the term "tied up" to begin with I may never have even responded to you since that is an entirely different argument. When something is "eaten" it's gone for good, when something is "tied up" it isn't.
on Sep 27, 2004
I substantially agree with everything stated, however our country is a much better place because of liberal influence, abolition of slavery, womens right to vote, civil rights. There has to be a balance between liberal and conservative, too much of either one is bad and you can use Nazi Germany as one good example of conservatism run amuck. However, I believe that the pendulum is swinging to far to the right and needs some good ole liberal influence to bring it back to center.
on Sep 27, 2004
Oh gawd, Abe and Baker are arguing semantics now.


Yes, isn't it just awful when people demand that language have meaning. I just don't understand why people think words should have a specific meaning. Who needs that critical thinking stuff anyway? Lets just live our lives jumping on bandwagons and reciting slogans. /sarcasm off

on Sep 28, 2004
Abe, I explained how the government bureauocracy holds a gross percent of the wealth of America. The inconsistancy is that somehow the wealthy holding onto money, stored in PRIVATE banks, investments, etc., is somehow worse than money completely removed from the private system. It is silly. We take away money that is doing good, creating jobs, powering the economy, and then hand it to a government that passes it around and hands it to people who don't earn it just so it can be taxed back into the same system.

You are the one that said the word "eaten". In the case of the government, it might as well be. By the time the money they hold is back in circulation they have devoured as much. That is money that is not being used to fund the free market and that is not changing hands in the REAL economy.
on Sep 28, 2004

Western 'poverty' means having a PS1 instead of a PS2 and only one TV. Western 'poverty' means shopping for clothes at Value Village. Western 'poverty' means not affording college tuition and having to save up for dental work to be done.


These are gross rationalizations and not true of all of the American poor.

on Sep 28, 2004
You are the one that said the word "eaten".


Now, on the other hand, like 40% of the cash in our economy just circulates back and forth in our Government, eaten by red tape and bureaucracy


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