Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
First debate results
Published on September 30, 2004 By Draginol In Politics

With the first debate over, I think it was pretty clear that Kerry gained more than Bush.  Neither scored any knock out blows on the other and the # of memorable sound bites is going to be minimal. But overall, Kerry did what he needed to do.

Expect to see the polls narrow considerably.


Comments (Page 3)
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on Oct 01, 2004
Deference, I think you're borderline delusional. Edging Bush in the debate will help but not to the extent you're imagining.
on Oct 01, 2004
This year is the first ear i get to vote so Im trying to get my facts straight. Im find that sifting through the political mud on this extremely difficult. But through the Bush supporters whining about flip-flopping, and the kerry supporters whining how stupid Bush is, I found that Kerry won the debate, he completely out manuevered Bush on a number of the main speaking points. Bush's stuttering and pauses were extremely troubling. He's the president aready, has been for 4 years, why cant he answer the questions about what his presidency has been focused around. What has he been doing for the last few years? After the debate it seems he doesnt even know.

"You forgot about Poland."
on Oct 01, 2004
I'm with Deference on this one!!! And I hope you all will be good losers when the time comes!
on Oct 01, 2004
Gideon,

My point was that it surprised me, not that debates are normally scored that way, but that you score them that way. Do you really think it matters if the President leans against the podium? Why?

I disagree that Bush comes off as searching for his answer. He comes off as a guy that stammers and sputters and that is exactly what we expected of him. If Bill Clinton had been up there with the big pauses and the stammers it would look bad. But doesn't it look just like business as usual with GWB? The people who think that makes him look like an idiot already believe he is an idiot...so what?

Do you really think that his stammering brought out the fact that he was trying to remember his talking points? So what? We all know they both have talking points...only a real fool (and a likely non-voting fool) thinks they were coming up with this stuff off the cuff. The last thing Bush needed to do was go "off-the-cuff" that would have been a disaster.

I believe that Kerry is a better debater, I believe that Kerry had a better debate, I believe he looked more Presidential (whatever that means), Bush looked tired, angry, blah, blah, blah.

I also believe Kerry will bounce about 4 points on average (3 short of a lead from the last poll average I heard) and then will sink. They will be hammering him on the very things he said very soon and I think it will play and play well. So if you want to say Kerry won today, I agree...but I think he starts losing ground from the debate by next week. This is really a loss.

I could be wrong...we will see. If I am right though my prediction is they will pin it on Edwards. Claiming that he did not make the case against Halliburtan Dick...and that hasn't even happened yet.
on Oct 01, 2004
Deference, I think you're borderline delusional.


agreed...
on Oct 01, 2004
Wisefawn, regardless of who wins, I'm not a loser. But I wouldn't count on Kerry winning. I think it's unlikely unless he wins the other two debates pretty thoroughly.
on Oct 01, 2004
This was pointed out by Lee1776 on a similar thread.

Reply #17 By: Citizen Lee1776 - 9/30/2004 10:49:40 PM
I did notice one thing that may help change this from a tie to a win for Bush.

Early in the debate Kerry said that Saddam was not a threat.

Bush countered with restating Kerry's speech before the war that "Saddam was a threat.

Later Bush said Kerry was soft on Saddam.

Kerry shot back saying "Saddam was a real Threat"

I think the Republicans are going to be all over this like White on Rice in the morning.

When I heard Kerry say this I thought "Oh My God", he did not just say that.

He didn't just change in the middle of the debate?

Maybe the main stream press will not say anything, but the talk shows will.

That's My Two Cents
on Oct 01, 2004
I don't quite get the consistency between getting a coalition for Iraq vs going it alone with North Korea.


I had the same question.
on Oct 01, 2004

Reply #34 By: WiseFawn - 10/1/2004 11:05:14 AM
I'm with Deference on this one!!! And I hope you all will be good losers when the time comes!


Same back at ya!
on Oct 01, 2004
Deference, I think you're borderline delusional. Edging Bush in the debate will help but not to the extent you're imagining

Draginol, I'm surprised at you, whipping out the ad hominen attack so desperately. I'm not nearly as close to delusional as I am actually vindicated. Kerry pounding on Bush in an effective manner shows strength in his position and the lack of it in Mr. Bush's. Once this really sinks in with the public, the polls and the votes will reflect Kerry as the strong and competent leader effectively stealing what Bush tried to claim as his main selling point. I believe the best parallel for the debates today are the Reagan - Carter debates in 1980. The more Kerry is able to remind voters of the failures of the Bush admin., Bush is kept on the defensive, considering what a weak defense has been given, it should be hard for even optimistic conservatives to think that Bush will win this election.
on Oct 01, 2004

Reply #41 By: Deference - 10/1/2004 12:25:46 PM
Kerry pounding on Bush in an effective manner shows strength in his position and the lack of it in Mr. Bush's.


Pounding on Bush???? What debate were you watching? Kerry is the one who did the flip-flop in the *middle* of the debate. Not GW.
on Oct 01, 2004
I wasn't able to tape the affair. I usually record debates, then recheck the numbers on factcheck.org
I review then allot points. From what I saw Bush adhered more the points, but articulation was clearly towards Kerry.
on Oct 01, 2004
I believe Kerry was more forceful which appeared to give him an edge. But it must remembered, he has all the advantage of hindsight and coached by Clinton and others to refine his answers. If Kerry were given a first time event were he to become president, I wonder how he would do? That is the question.

on Oct 01, 2004
Pounding on Bush???? What debate were you watching? Kerry is the one who did the flip-flop in the *middle* of the debate. Not GW.

Yeah, I saw that. I also saw how Bush failed to answer the first few questions, bungled his way through the entire debate, and had nothing new or of substance to offer. Perhaps you didn't pick up on some of the more subtle gains in the debate Kerry made, maybe I should get a transcript and make a list for you...
on Oct 01, 2004
Reply #45 By: Deference - 10/1/2004 12:41:07 PM
Pounding on Bush???? What debate were you watching? Kerry is the one who did the flip-flop in the *middle* of the debate. Not GW.

Yeah, I saw that. I also saw how Bush failed to answer the first few questions, bungled his way through the entire debate, and had nothing new or of substance to offer. Perhaps you didn't pick up on some of the more subtle gains in the debate Kerry made, maybe I should get a transcript and make a list for you...


You don't think that the media isn't going to catch the flip-flop and start hammering on it?
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