Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
Published on August 25, 2008 By Draginol In Republican

I often have discussion with family and friends about how "we" should help the poor, the sick, and the incompetent.

Usually, I end up taking the role of the villain because my view is that society can decide what it values through the individual contributions of its citizens. That is, I don't think my government has the right to forcibly confiscate my property to hand to someone else. 

If people want to support giving health care to everyone, then they can start or support a foundation or charity that does that. Or if they want to make sure someone born with down syndrome is able to be supported, support a charity or foundation. But don't use the government as an inefficient goon squad to compel other people to pay for your compassion.

But I hear the response already "We express what we want our society to be like through our elected officials". Bullshit.

In a country where half the adult population pays zero net federal income taxes, we certainly are not expressing our society through a democratic movement.  We are, instead, expressing a shallow, narcissistic feel-good set of policies that someone else ultimately has to pay for.

What study after study has shown is that societies that transfer individual responsibility to the government ultimately surrenders any individual obligation to help others.  There's nothing compassionate about supporting a government policy.

Beliefs aren't compassionate. Deeds are. Supporting universal health care is not compassionate. Helping a friend, a family member or a total stranger with their medical bills is.


Comments (Page 4)
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on Aug 27, 2008

Leauki, many thinks I do agree with you on, but you'll never convince me the gov. can do it better, not here in the US anyway

I agree.  While I'm not against the idea of every American having health care, (I think as much money as we give away and things we do for other countries the very first thing we should be doing is making sure our citizens are healthy and strong and well educated, but that's me) I don't think our government as it stands today can handle the job.

I think that ship has sailed and it would take massive governmental restructuring and some constitutional alterations before it'd be close to feasible.  And while the health care issue is important, I don't see it starting a revolution.

on Aug 27, 2008

*After World War 2 all those German citizens who had pensions saved up in private banks lost their money (when private companies were reorganised), but those who had their pensions with the government received their actual pension (including Lithuanian Nazis who worked for the German government for two years). Turns out private companies WILL use a way out of responsibilities, while a government run by the greatest idiot in the world is still a reliable trade partner.

I didn't know any of this, thanks for the info.

Let me ask, if you know.  Was the German Gov the same after the war as before?  The same style?  Because I am wondering if the gov changed from one style (say dictatorship) to another (say socialism or whatever) if the new gov would honor the old one's debts.

I'm thinking if America is ever conquered by another country, or if there is a revolution and a whole new style of government emerges, I don't believe gov pensions would be honored.  That's why I'm curious about Germany, tho I understand they weren't "conquered" in the traditional sense. 

I am learning a lot from this thread, lots of different perspectives.  Interesting.

on Aug 28, 2008

and remember, Leauki, what works in a country the size of Ireland or Germany is not always feasible here

Germany has a population of 82 million. It's not in a different league. It's 1/3 the size of the US. I believe there is a scalability issue between Ireland (6 million) and Germany (more than ten times bigger), but I don't believe that the problem kicks in above 82 million and at a factor of 3.

The Federal Republic of Germany is organised pretty much like the US. Even the average population of the states is the same. The difference is that Germany has 16 states while the US has 50 (three times as many).

The European Union government is one level above that and seems to be completely useless.

 

on Aug 28, 2008

I only cited established teachings of the laws of Supply and Demand, and known facts about the operation of government. 

Your "known facts" were anecdotes.

And it was I who cited established teachings of the laws of supply and demand.

 

You are free to challenge either, but I dont think you will find empirical data to support it.

Neither of us has cited empirical data so that point is kinda mood.

 

on Aug 28, 2008

Let me ask, if you know.  Was the German Gov the same after the war as before?  The same style?  Because I am wondering if the gov changed from one style (say dictatorship) to another (say socialism or whatever) if the new gov would honor the old one's debts.

Governments usually honour old debts. (That's why the issue of Iraq'd debts come up all the time. For example Iraq still owes Germany money for the poison gas used to exterminate Kurds.)

After the revolution the American government made deals with colonial/state governments regarding debted owed to British subjects.

In Germany's case the official line is that Germany's army surrendered unconditionally, but the state did not (and never will). Furthermore, the Nazi government is regarded as illegal. The state governments are legal continuations of the existing state governments (which Hitler abolished, also illegally). And the Federal Republic is both a new federation of those states (and derives its legitimaticy and souvereignty from the states) and the legal heir of both the state of Prussia (which was split up into its provinces) and the German Reich (as of before Hitler's illegal government).

Thus legal heads of state in Germany were the Kaiser, the series of Presidents during the Weimar Republic until abolition of the office, and then the first President of the new Federal Republic.

All debts of the Weimar government and the Imperial government are honoured and all property and titles owned by those states are now owned by the Federal Republic.

Legally there was no revolution after World War II. The revolution of the Nazis was merely rolled back and a new constitution written. But the continuity remains.

 

I'm thinking if America is ever conquered by another country, or if there is a revolution and a whole new style of government emerges, I don't believe gov pensions would be honored.  That's why I'm curious about Germany, tho I understand they weren't "conquered" in the traditional sense.

Germany was conquered by the Americans and British who didn't intend to annex land and merely re-instated the state governments the Nazis abolished. Those states then decided to form a new union. The individual states, apart from the ones that were Prussian provinces released into independence when Prussia was broken up in 1946, have their own continuities, interrupted by Hitler and Napoleon and others occasionally, going back over a thousand years in some cases.

 

on Aug 28, 2008

Your "known facts" were anecdotes.

No, they are demonstrable and proveable.  If you would like, I can show you the evidence.  I am not stating $600 hammers, I am stating a mind set that pervades government.  All you have to do is show me where the federal government has laid off people when a program has served its purpose to disprove it.  A simple enough task, if impossible.

on Aug 28, 2008

If you would like, I can show you the evidence. 

Go ahead.

Show me evidence that government is more inefficient than the worse half of companies.

 

I am not stating $600 hammers, I am stating a mind set that pervades government.  All you have to do is show me where the federal government has laid off people when a program has served its purpose to disprove it.  A simple enough task, if impossible.

What exactly would I show by finding such an incident?

 

on Aug 28, 2008

Wow L, you are a font of information.  Thank you.

In Germany's case the official line is that Germany's army surrendered unconditionally, but the state did not (and never will)

This part makes me laugh tho.  It makes me think of my German neighbor in Florida.  She was smart and articulate and added things like "and never will!"  at the end of political thoughts on her country.

Thanks for the info.  I didn't even know

After the revolution the American government made deals with colonial/state governments regarding debted owed to British subjects.

I figured since we beat the buggers we took the "well if you want it come and take it" approach.  Good thing I wasn't in charge..heh.

 

on Aug 28, 2008

Btw, that fresh perch you're eating...got a license for catching it?

hahaha...this reminds me of when I was in Alaska,,, we were in the southeast part of the state, where the parks are beautiful, and bears are common place.

My family was fortunate enough to be on a guided hike by an Alaska Park Ranger.  She was so incredibly knowledgeable about the flora and fauna and animals.  It was amazing.

Well, as we walked we met up with a couple other hikers coming from the other direction.  We met in a field of riotous wild flowers couched between two huge mountains.  As we made our way across that field toward those other hikers I saw a guy with long red hair and a backpack that looked like it was everything he owned.

He was carrying a fistful of wildflowers.

I didn't know until she threw him on the ground and cuffed him, it's illegal to pick flowers in national parks.

Heh, she didn't really throw him on the ground and cuff him.  But her reaction certainly made me think it was a possibility.  She made him put them down, told him it was illegal, fine-able, yadda yadda. 

He looked sheepish because like me I don't think he knew that little rule.  I mean, who ever heard of not being able to pick a flower out in the woods?

Oh well.  She didn't fine him, but she did make them go belly to belly, toe to toe, with us on the narrow path so nothing off the path might be squished.

Ah, tree huggers.  I wish I was still optimistic enough about the world to be one.

on Aug 28, 2008

knowledgeable about the flora and fauna and animals.

I don't mean to be a smartass Tova (ok maybe I am) but isn't fauna and animals the same?

on Aug 28, 2008

I don't mean to be a smartass Tova (ok maybe I am) but isn't fauna and animals the same?

hahahaha.  Yup.  My bad. 

on Aug 28, 2008

We went home, scoured the house for loose change, and bought us a chicken instead.

 That is hysterical LW...I laughed out loud!

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