Don't misunderstand the American character

The United States will do whatever it takes to win the war on terror

Published on December 23, 2003 By Draginol In Politics

All over the blogsphere I'll see people say "You Americans need to start asking yourselves, 'Why did they do this to you.'" It is a terrible misreading of the American culture. Americans don't care. You can argue all day that they should care. But they don't. I don't. There is nothing we have done that justified the events of 9/11. And those who try to justify the acts of terrorists will be ignored as sycophants and appeasers of evil.

After 9/11 the question is no longer "why did they do this to you?" The question should be what is happening to the Islamic world as a result of their growing culture of death and violence towards the west.

Perhaps the Islamic world needs to start asking, why the US does this to them. Because if the choice becomes us or them, Americans will choose us in a heart beat even if that means the Islamic world is a totally destroyed. Make no mistake about that. This isn't jingoism, far from it, it is the quiet knowledge of certainty. The clear understanding of the American character that is saying this.

I don't say this because I hope that happens, I don't. I hope that the Islamic World can live in peace with the west and in particular the United States. I just don't think Europeans and especially the Islamic world understands American culture. We try to do the right thing. But if we feel we've been wronged (and we do) our history shows that we will do whatever it takes to secure ourselves.

Remember this: Japan bombed a military base to start its war against the United States. The war ended with the United States vaporizing two of its largest cities after having used conventional weapons to flatten nearly every city in Japan with millions of civilian casualties. It is one of those things about democracy - it is slow to anger but once angered, once motivated, it is hard to turn it off. So I say to you, for the sake of the Islamic world, they will not continue the path of folly in trying to convince us that the fault lies with us. That sort of argument is interesting in intellectual forums. But in the real world, when people are getting killed, those who would start killing Americans need to understand the full implications of their actions.

Blaming Bush is convenient. But I can say this: Any President of the United States would have done at least as much or would have faced riots. The US federal government only has one job (the state governments do pretty much everything else): Take care of the personal well being of its citizens It's not designed to build roads. It's not designed to build schools. It doesn't provide the police. It doesn't run the water plant. It doesn't provide water or electricity. It just takes care of individual citizens. And it does this in two ways: Killing non-citizens who seek to harm us and provide services to individuals. That's basically all it does (all but less than 10% of the budget is dedicated to those tasks). It's not like a European government or the government in other countries in its design. And it does those things remarkably well. And democracies can be scary things. The average person acts out of passion, emotion. The government is merely the tool of the citizenry. It doesn't rule the people, the people rule the government. Blaming Bush for Kyoto or the International Criminal Court or the Iraqi invasion or whatever may make some quasi-intellectual feel better. But it's a delusion. It doesn't matter who the President was. Those things would have happened under any President one way or the other particularly after 9/11 in the case of Iraq.

So don't delude yourself into thinking that Americans are going to sweat about the "why" the terrorists murdered so many Americans. Most Americans care about how its government will make the problem go away in as permanent a way as possible. It's not the "Arab street" you should worry about, it's the American street people should worry about. Even 4 years after Pearl Harbor, poll after poll taken in 1945 showed that the vast majority of Americans supported the extermination of the Japanese as a people. Do you understand? The extermination of the Japanese as a race. It's not the terrorists that people should be afraid of. That is why the Islamic world needs to stop the terrorists. Why they need to do it on their own. They're not doing it to help us. They are doing it to ensure their continued survival.

Comments (Page 3)

Machiavelli_incorporated

on Dec 24, 2003

Ok Brad, if u insist on dumbing the situation down like that. It is true that one would punch back if punched. If there was say 10 people surrounding you, one of them punched u. Would you punch back knowing that if u knock him down, another one will come and punch you again. That is the reality of the US rite now. The war against terrorism is simply a war it CANNOT win unless it nukes the rest of the world. (and that would be pointless) We r exploiting the middle east for its resources rite now. If for sum reason this region becomes useless. The US will have to find another region. (the basics of imperialism) That region will then hate us. Back to the ten vs one issue. If that one person punches u, would it be smart to punch him back without regard to the other 9?

OccultPizza

on Dec 24, 2003

I firmly agree. Even with the conspiracy theories and the lies. Anything that makes me and my family a little safer is great. You cannot fight terrorism that way. Too many innocents die in the process. Especially when we have enough special forces to just go in sniper people while they aren't even expecting it.

azza

on Dec 24, 2003

America is not a democracy.

Your comments exemplify the arrogance and stupidity that typifies the 'American character' for many people all across the globe. Remember, population wise, America is the minority. How long do you really think American domination can last? Besides, if you blow up the third world, who will make your sneakers? I guess it will be you who will have to work for $1 a week. Don't think that the American government actually gives a shit abouts it people. More Americans have been killed in Iraq than in the first three years of the Vietnam war. You are loosing this war!

azza

on Dec 24, 2003

please excuse the above typo.

Draginol

on Dec 24, 2003

Mach: No, your analogy isn't correct. Because at the end of the day, the US has the means to eliminate Islam entirely if the majority of Americans were convinced that their lives were on the line. There isn't an infinite number of terrorists like you seem to believe.

Let's look at the world as it is, not as you wish it was:

Terrorists attack the United States in 9/11 ostensibly over various vague issues (primarily because US troops were based in Saudi Arabia btw which were there to protect the area from Iraq). In response the United States replace the regimes in Afghanistan and Iraq. By taking out Iraq, the US was able to remove the offending presence from Saudi Arabia.

So what's next? Hopefully what will happen is that the war on terrorism will slowly dwindle down. That the Islamic world will either hope that democracy and liberalization will make their lives better OR at the very least have enough fear that attacks against the United States will have negative consequences.

But what happens instead if Al Queda smuggles in a nuclear device into New York and sets it off killing a million people? What do you think the US reaction is going to be? Do you really think Americans will ask "Why do they hate us?". No, they are going to demand action. Once WMDs come into play, the gloves are off. This is what would happen. Anyone who thinks differently..well is not looking at how peoples have reacted over thousands of years or how Americans have reacted to such things in the recent past.

Therefore, the best course is for those who are against American policies to recognize the reality of the situation - the best solution for Islam is for it to moderate itself.

The only way the US is giong to moderate itself is if enough real external pressure is put on it to change its course and that would only work as long as the US is not attacked. External pressure, btw, is not chattering from Europe. Europe is full of democracies. If France and Germany really have a problem with US actions they should enact sanctions or something. But they don't and they won't because they aren't really serious, it's just chattering. That means that the only party that is realistically subject to outside influence is Islam.

John McCrarey

on Dec 25, 2003

Brad, I think you are making a very simple point and I am frankly astounded that it is being misinterpreted by so many of the commenters. I believe many Americans would be receptive to hearing the grievances of people who feel wronged by American policy (real or imagined). I think it is consistent with our culture to learn from our mistakes or at least admit them (no reasonable person accepts as right our past treatment of native Americans or the Africans we forced into slavery). However, if those who oppose our policies attempt to change them through violence we are not a people who are inclined to talk about our differences. We are action oriented by nature, and as the world has seen throughout our history, retribution will be swift, sure, and deadly. Now, you can debate whether that is right or wrong, but there should be no question that it is in fact the way it is.

Another couple of points I would like to make by way of example. A very large percentage of Americans do not in fact support or approve of Sharon's policies in Palestine. In my view, he gets a pass from our government because everytime a Palestinian suicide murderer kills innocents, many Americans will say "well, Israel has a right to defend herself, even if we don't agree with the tactics".
I shake my head in wonder at the ignorance of the Palestinians who have so many legitimate grievances and yet so totally undermine their moral high ground by allowing terrorists to practice their evil trade in their name. Until that changes Israel will not be significantly pressured to make concessions by the US.

Now, I am only one American but I think this goes to Brad's point generally. I have voted in presedential elections since 1976. I have never voted for a Republican. That is likely to change in 2004. I disagree with most of Bush's domestic policies and on environmental and social issues. But after 9/11 I realized that without national security, none of the other stuff really matters. I honestly don't care if the people of France or Germany disagree or even despise us for it, America was attacked and America declared war. I see it in very simple terms: if you want to kill us, we will hunt you down and kill you first.

Two towers, two countries. Who wants to be next?

Machiavelli_incorporated

on Dec 25, 2003

The united states can easily eliminate Islam entirely, but thats not gonna solve the problem. If u seriously think that crushing the islam people is gonna relieve this problem than u r completely mistaken. There is a whole generation of young people in the world that is the sworn enemy of the united states. Osama bin Laden has achieved a cult hero status not only in the middle east but also in Africa, eastern Europe, and sum parts of Asia. Do u really expect us to destroy all of these places? It doesnt matter how many nuclear weapons we have, its simply impossible to kill the rest of the world. If we crush the islamic world. there will simply be another terrorist orgainization. There is NOTHING fundamental about islam that permits it to acts of terrorism. The hate against the US has simply taken the form of islam rite now. If we destroy this form, than it will change into another form.

"terrorists attack the United States in 9/11 ostensibly over various vague issues (primarily because US troops were based in Saudi Arabia btw which were there to protect the area from Iraq). In response the United States replace the regimes in Afghanistan and Iraq."

That mite have been the short term reasons, but that is not the primary reason the attack on the america took place. It is because of a generation of young men with no hope in their future, nothing but anger and hate in their minds, willing to join any organization that promises revenge on their supposed oppressors

You keep saying that none of us is gettin ur point, i think its u thats not understanding what im saying

THE WAR AGAINST TERRORISM IS A WAR THE UNITED STATES CANNOT WIN. ITS EITHER THE UNITED STATES COMPRIMISES, OR THE AMERICAN EMPIRE WILL FALL.
u seem to be under the fantasy that america is sum sorta of divine power that cannot be toppled. The US mite be powerful but its not invincible

Anthony R

on Dec 25, 2003

The whole “hearts and minds thing” you hear about is basically a call for Muslims to fight extremism, and leave behind the side of militant extremists that are eventually going to be annihilated, in the millions if necessary. As of today, two dictatorships are destroyed, and one capitulated, renouncing terrorism. liberals and sophists feel that the US has been too heavy handed, I feel that we haven’t been ruthless enough, I think that when Bin Laden was trapped in Tora Bora we should have moved US forces and the northern alliance to a safe withdrawal zone and then nuked Tora Bora, I don’t care if Tora Bora became uninhabitable for fifty years just as long as bin laden was dead, and if we get attacked again you can Bet your bottom dinard that will be the pervasive belief nationwide. I can also assure you that the world and everything in it would cease to exist before the US was “toppled.”

Machiavelli_incorporated

on Dec 25, 2003

umm.... r u responding to my comments or just the topic in general cuz if ur responding to mines than u didnt address a single issue mentioned

messybuu

on Dec 26, 2003

America might think it's invincible, but the terrorists somehow think they're justified, and unless I'm mistaken, purposely killing innocent people is never justified, especially when its justification is something that isn't life or death, and simply lashing out against a nation that doesn't always give them their way.
There are other groups that want the United States destroyed, which means that destroying Islam would not mean the end of terrorism, but I'm sure that those groups are much more likely to attack against a nation they know will appease them whenever they throw a tantrum then one that will punish them severely for acts of war. Appeasement doesn't work with those who want the world.
The US can be toppled, but I'm pretty sure that we'd take down several others with us. After all, it might just be me, but most Americans value their lives, and will fight to keep them.

Draginol

on Dec 26, 2003

The United States definitely doesn't think it's invincible.

Someone in another thread argued that Americans are obstinate against "constructive" criticism. I'm not hearing constructive criticism from Europe. Just self-interested chattering from France and Germany.

Mach: I basically just plain disagree with you. You can jump up and down yelling as loud as you want saying that the US cannot "win" the war on terrorism. I disagree and so do most Americans.

What I am pointing out is that right or wrong, American restraint is not infinite. You seem to take that as being some sort of jingoism which I find sad and discouraging. I can imagine what early astronomers felt like when they tried to explain that the Earth wasn't the center of the universe and having people trying to argue that they were speaking heresy.

You don't help your "argument" (if it can be called that) by using terms like "American Empire". I also suggest you educate yourself on Al Queda as you don't seem to have a clue of what Bin Laden's reasons for putting it together were.

Draginol

on Dec 26, 2003

Messy: Exactly. I appeasement is so ingrained into some people that they just can't recognize that Americans will never choose appeasement as a solution. Right or wrong, Americans will fight to stop those who are trying to kill them no matter what the end result was.

Americans would generally prefer not to right at all. We'd rather just be left alone to live our lives. But anyone who seriously thinks that Americans will tolerate being slaughtered like animals en masse by terrorists without demanding its government to take massive action in response is delusional.

Machiavelli_incorporated

on Dec 26, 2003

Fisrt off, ive nv supported terrorism, thats the problem with u americans, u seem to think that whoever doesnt agree with u must be allied with the terrorists, which is an immature, black and white view of the world. Secondly, my question is whether or not america would choose appeasement over destruction. U seem to so eagarly suggest America, and its population would eagarly choose destruction. While president bush may consider it his "divine mission" to destroy terrorism (he refered to the war on terror as a crusade on several occasions)the majority of americans r not that stupid. America has had a long tradition of being isolationist and will continue to do so if it feels threatened.

"But anyone who seriously thinks that Americans will tolerate being slaughtered like animals en masse by terrorists without demanding its government to take massive action in response is delusional."
Has the idea that a defense rather than offense tactic for homeland security would work alot better ever occured to u? Going on the offense simply makes ppl hate us more and become more eagar to join the fight against america. Defensive measures will take pressure off of us interantionally and prevent acts of terrorism.

"I also suggest you educate yourself on Al Queda as you don't seem to have a clue of what Bin Laden's reasons for putting it together were."
u seem 2 be taking this more and more personal.... U have NO need 2 question my intellect. Bin Laden started Al Queda with the 10 year goal of converting the whole world into islam. Again, u seem to be thinking under the assumption i support terrorism, i DO NOT support terrorism. Its demands r unrealistic and the majority of times, pure lunacy. All of my comments have centered on the ways we can prevent terrorism from happening in America.

Machiavelli_incorporated

on Dec 26, 2003

I would also like to add that ur hypocrisy is amazing. america trained saddam hussein, america put him in power, america trained bin laden, america gives him weapons to fight the soviets. Now america doesnt need them any more so america guts millions of civilians to get rid of it's own puppet. I know sum body out there is gonna say that i need 2 consider the ppl killed in 9/11. Without the tactical training Bin laden recieved from the CIA, those towers would have never gone down like that.

messybuu

on Dec 27, 2003

If we only acted defensively, we'd simply be giving terrorists more time to grow stronger in their home countries knowing they have no reason to fear us. By playing the offense, we're sending a message that we will not tolerate terrorism and they will not escape from us no matter where they hide.
I'm also pretty sure that we did not try Bin Laden and Hussein knowing that they would become our enemies. People change, even evil people.

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