Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.

After reading the book One Second After we had an interesting discussion over on JoeUser about the subject.

One user said that humans had adapted and were far too enlightened today to revert to violence and mayhem in the absence of our modern conveniences.

So let’s walk through the EMP scenario:

Day 1: July Year 200x

5 container ships in the gulf of Mexico fire medium range SCUD missiles high into the atmosphere until it reaches far above Kansas and other states.  On board are 45KT nuclear warhead.  It explodes creating EMP that takes out all of the integrated circuits in the United States.

That means anything electronic that hasn’t been hardened is going to be ruined.  That means your computers, TVs, cars, home electronics, breaker box, phones, radios, cell phones. It also means the power companies, their generators, the backup generators at hospitals, nursing homes, etc.

All of the farms and their harvesting equipment is dead. The trucks that move food to the cities are ruined. The trains that move freight around the country are inoperable.

Every airplane flying crashes. All planes on the down are ruined.

The only thing working are US conventional forces that happened to be hardened against EMP (which means quite a few of them).  Some cars stored in underground parking garages would probably work depending on the proximity. 

There’s no fall out. Nobody dies from the attack directly.

Day 2:

With power out people’s fridges are DOA.  With no working cars, people don’t go to work. In the country and in the suburbs, people take the food out of their refrigerators and freezers before it “goes bad” and have BBQs. It’s a fun time.

People who were driving somewhere are mostly able to make it to town. A few people die of heat stroke on their journeys. In the deep south, particularly Florida, there are a number of deaths due to the heat since air conditioning is out.

In the cities, looting begins quite quickly. The police can’t do much since they’re on foot or on horse.

We know this sort of thing because we have seen what happens during extended power outages. Of course, in those cases cars, cell phones, and other crucial devices still worked but there was still massive looting in the large cities.

Day 3:

Local agencies really don’t know what’s going on since there is no communication. No cell phones. No radio. No land lines. The grid is gone.  There are spare parts but no where near enough to fix it all and because of the nature of the electrical grid, all the holes have to be plugged for the juice to flow again.  And even if they had enough parts, how do they transport them? No trucks. No cars. 

International relief from Japan, China, Canada (though most of Canada is taken out too), Mexico, Europe begins but it’ll be slow going. Food shipments can reach the coast in a couple of days but getting it inland will be a major problem as the vehicles will have to be transported in along with parts to try to get the railroads working again (along with teams to get dead trains off the rails).

In the subs, the party is over. It ain’t funny now.  People are finishing off what was in their refrigerator. Most people still have some food in the cupboard.

Stores start rationing their supplies. People are still using money (at least, those who keep cash). A bottle of water is $20.  How much cash do you keep in your house?

In the cities, riots have broken out with widespread destruction. Being July, it’s hot and dry. Fires from the riots start to spread.

End of Week 1:

By now, most people in the subs have run out of food they would normally remotely consider eating. Looting at the local Walmart and grocery stores begins as people simply take what they need.

Remember, people aren’t hearing anything from the authorities. There are no working TVs. No working radios. The handful of police are walking in the subs. 

If you live in the suburbs, take a close look around. How would the police reasonably patrol your city without cars?

Meanwhile, people in nursing homes have started dying enmasse. Without refrigeration drugs quickly go bad. Anyone requiring help breathing or anything else has already died.

People with type 1 diabetes are starting to see the writing on the wall.

Meanwhile, the first container ships of relief have reached San Francisco, Seattle, LA, San Diego, Houston, Miami, Boston, NY, Washington, Raleigh. Lots of food, medicine, some parts, lots of vehicles.

Unfortunately most of those cities are in utter pandemonium. In the south, tens of thousands have already died from heat.  In 2003, when there was a heat wave in France, 14800 people died. They didn’t lose power, they just didn’t have air conditioning.  In Florida, the death toll is skyrocketing quickly. Same in most of the other southern states.

End of Week 2:

People are starting to die of dysentery from eating bad food, drinking bad water. Many have left the suburbs to head to rural areas where they think there is food (they’re wrong, harvest won’t happen for months, industrialized food processing involves a lot of transportation between the farms and the slaughter houses).

The typical American family, now out of food and with no access to clean water is starting to get pretty desperate.

What? Only 2 weeks? How much food do you have in your house right now? Go check. I’ll wait….

Okay back? So how much is in your pantry? How long would it last you? If you knew at the start, you might have rationed it better. But you didn’t. 

Millions of Americans are wishing they had put those steaks and hamburgers and hotdogs in their basements in the cooler temperatures. Others are wishing they had salted them heavily and cooked them well done to store for the long haul.

In the cities on the coast, power is restored via backup generators relatively close to shore. However, within 10 miles from the harbor, death is everywhere.  Don’t agree?

Ever been to San Francisco? LA? New York City? 14 days have passed. Where would you have gone? The smart ones, who are able to, would have found their way to the harbors and waited for air lifts of food and such. But most would probably not think about that.

Meanwhile, armed thugs are starting to systematically go through every building and house looking and taking what they need.

End of Week 3

Starvation is starting to become a real problem. If your local law enforcement had a clue, they had already gotten themselves and helpful citizens around to the stores to gather up supplies to start rationing it.

At this point, martial law has been declared by any competent city government.  Some cities decide that, for the public good of course, that all community food will be collected and distributed equally to everyone. In other places, large armed mobs are violently taking what is needed to survive.

Are you a survivalist? Got all your supplies right? Got MREs in the basement. You have an AK47 that you managed to get quietly at a gun show. Your kids know how to use the two shot guns. You’ve been prepared for this day right?  Great. You’re about to die.

You see, you might be able to keep a few people away. But word got around that you have supplies because you’re that guy who everyone knew was expecting to “bug out” one day when the government and black helicopters came.  You might be able to take out a few people but 200+ Nope. You’re going to take a lot of them out but they’re going to come in, kill you, your family, and your supplies.

What? Don’t agree? People won’t do that? Again: Other than on the coast (in some major cities near harbors anyway) you’ve heard and seen nothing from the government other than the occasional Black Hawk flying around. No TV. No phones. No radios. 

A few people have managed to dig up old HAM radios and they are getting distant broadcasts of reassurance but it’s clear that nothing’s coming any time soon if you live significantly inland, especially if you don’t live in a densely populated area.

It’s triage at this point and the rural and suburbs areas are simply too spread out. Unfortunately, in the cities, fires have consumed much of them. Anyone strong enough to get out of there has which further distributes the population.

A few older cars start showing up again on the roads as collectables and just old junkers are fixed up and are able to drive because they didn’t have electronics in them.

End of the first month:

A network of outposts are re-established in most large and medium sized cities. Medium sized cities are faring a bit better. Kalamazoo Michigan, Santa Cruz California, and other cities of this kind are doing okay now as convoys are starting to show up.

Really large cities away from the coast are dead at this point.  Sorry Omaha, there’s nobody home anymore.

The Second Month:

Now is when the death toll really starts to go up.  First, you have about 5% of the population that was on medication to control their mental states. This is now gone.  They will mostly die off this month or take out a few others in the process.

Nearly everyone with Type 1 diabetes has died.

Virtually who requires assisted care at this point has died.

Millions of children under 2 have died. Why? Do you have any children? If you’re not nursing them, how are you feeding them at this point?

There are not many domesticated dogs left that haven’t been freed by owners.

The number of deer left that are near people has diminished to the point of being difficult to find. Same with geese, ground hogs, rabbits, etc.

Most cities of any decent size now have an outpost re-established with convoys of food now arriving. However, it’s starting to become a real problem because, well it turns out that the US and Canada supply a significant chunk of the world’s food. 47% of the world’s Soy beans are produced in the United States. 86% of the world’s corn. The bulk of the world’s wheat. 

It’s during this second month that the food shipments to the United States are going to start to dry up as hunger starts to become a significant problem in China, Japan, and other countries that have to import food. The US and Canada make up 20% of the world’s food exports and if you count only basic foods the percentage nearly doubles. 

The world has its first universal consensus: Oh shit.

It’s at about this time that those who were celebrating in the streets about the downfall of the great satan are starting to get the first thought that yes, they’re going to die too. North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Syria, Pakistan, and many other countries are about to see starvation on a level that has never been seen before.

By contrast, Europe is doing okay. Not great. But okay. Their economies are in ruins but they’re not going to die enmasse. 

In Japan, where starvation is a serious concern, they and Korea have enough money to pay top dollar for the dwindling import food supply. Russia, unfortunately, is about to have a very rough year.

Needless to say, the food aid shipments to the United States are starting to dwindle. Western Europe, particularly Great Britain, Spain, Belgium, Denmark, France, Germany, Netherlands are still sending food shipments.

If you’re on the East coast in a secure area, you’re in good shape.  If you’re on the west coast, most of you are going to die.

Third Month:

The population of the United States is starting to take on the same appearance it did in 1909.

Here is what it looked like in the year 2000.

8% of the poulation was over 70.  Nearly all of them have died.

3% of the population is under 4.  Nearly all of them have died.

Urban populations of the United States have had staggering death tolls, particularly those not near the coasts.

Anyone requiring medication that needed to be refrigerated in order to live (anti-rejection drugs, insulin, various heart medications, for instance) has died. Easily 10% of the population on top of the above.

Around 20% of the population has starved.

Another 10% in the south who are living in places that were uninhabitable without modern technology have died.  Think LA is nice? Imagine it without water.  Any water.

In fact, if you live in California, take a look around. Where does your water come from?  Most of the population of Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico and parts of Utah have died.

Power is starting to get restored due to generators and the government now had a decent supply of cars. Fixing the grid has become a priority.

While heat has killed millions in the south, we’re now getting near November. It’s starting to get cold.

The fourth month

I tell people who come and interview that Michigan’s southern part is about the same latitude as Northern California.  Winters in the upper part of the United States and lower Canada aren’t that bad – if you have heat.

But we don’t have heat.  Natural gas has to be pumped and pumped through a huge network across the country.  When power goes out, even for a few days, a lot of infrastructure falls apart.  New York’s subways, for example are gone.  Much of Chicago has flooded too.  Those who have enough propane will be okay, for awhile (at least until armed thugs come and take it).

By this point, restoring natural gas is not going to be a simple matter of restoring power.  Ever wondered how natural gas gets to your house?  It’s all repairable but it will take time and unfortunately, a lot of that expertise in people has died or is otherwise unavailable. That means bringing people in which will take more time.

If you live in northern states at this point, and you haven’t starved to death, you’re probably going to start dying of exposure.

But that’s a gift compared to what people still struggling to make it in warmer areas as we get reintroduced to cholera, TB, and diarrhea become major problems.

In fact, in 1900 the #1 cause of death in the United States was pneumonia. The #3 was diarrhea. That’s right. The runs killed more Americans than Heart disease, cancer, strokes, etc.  And this November, it returns from retirement as people, without proper sanitation, start to die off from all kinds of things that were previously unheard of.

In fact, as November closes, the United States has reverted to a third world country. No, that’s not fair. Third world countries usually have electricity and their inhabitants usually know how to start a fire.  Do you know how to start a fire without matches and such? Remember watching Survivor and laughing at them? They were in pretty good conditions to get a fire going.  You, by contrast, are wet, cold, weakened, and not sure if it’s even a good idea to start a fire because, well, what are you going to do with it? There’s little food.

On the west coast, food shipments have dropped to a trickle.  LA, Seattle, San Fran, it’s not a fun time there now.

One Year later

The grid is re-established in the midwest, the east coast, and much of the south.  It’s partially re-established on the west coast thanks to help from South Korea, China, and Japan. Thanks guys. We appreciate it even if most of us are dead.

So what’s the death toll?  Conservatively, you’re looking at 40% of the population of the US and Canada has died. That’s probably a best case scenario if food and equipment shipments from the rest of the world come in quickly.

A smart (well not really smart because the states that sponsor terrorists have died off due to the unintended consequences) terrorist would have also zinged Japan, South Korea, the Chinese east coast, and western Europe. If that happened, you would be looking far higher deaths everywhere as there would be no relief coming in.

The population of the United States today is over 300 million people.  In 1900 it was 76 million. The biggest reason for the increase isn’t due to birth rate but rather the massive decline of the death rate.  And remember, they had infrastructure back in 1900.  We’d be worse off than they were because they knew how to live back then. 

How many people know how to can food? How many modern Americans know how much wood to cut to burn? How many Americans live in places where they need an elevator, as a practical matter, to get to where they live?

Heck, how many Americans are simply living today because they have access to all kinds of medical technology?  How many Americans are living in places that can only be inhabited thanks to modern technology? Most of the south west was a barren desert until electrical pumps became possible. Much of the south wasn’t, as a practical matter, livable until air condition.

Also, consider our immune systems of today versus what it was 100 years ago. Our sterilized world has made us very vulnerable to the bacteria and viruses that lurk just outside our electrified civilization. And they would be back to visit within weeks.

Conclusions

Is what I describe realistic? Nobody really knows. There are studies out there.  The book One Second After is a bit more dire than I think it would be.  And it may turn out that our infrastructure is tougher than it seems or that the types of nuclear warheads that an Iran or North Korea could produce aren’t powerful enough to cause the necessary EMP. 

But what is so frightening is how vulnerable we are.  It wouldn’t take much of a shove to bring down the electrical grid.  You could still end up with a situation where 10% of the American population (30 million) die simply by screwing up the electrical grid for a couple months.

Do I think this will happen? Probably not. I have a lot of faith in humanity.  But when one considers the things that we worry about – global warming comes to mind, it amazes me how unconcerned people are at how easily disrupted our modern lives could be given how dependent we are on our technology today.


Comments (Page 2)
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on Jun 27, 2009

Up until recently, I was living in Los Angeles for a few years. I used to joke around that it was the biggest planned cannibal community in the US. 10 Million people living in a desert where they have to pump the water over a mountain is not my ideal place to be when "it" hits the fan.

Personally, I wouldn't want to live anywhere in California. Pretty much the whole state is a disaster waiting to happen. It's on a giant fault line, they don't have their own water, it's prone to massive wildfires (which apparently some people don't know, because they continue to move to the places with the highest fire danger), and it's got a bunch of large cities that would make great targets for potential terrorists. Of course, this is completely off-topic.

I agree with you about the solar flare. IMO, its much more likely than an EMP bomb/high altitude nuke, etc,but still pretty unlikely. The real reason it would take so long to make new transformers after a flare isn't because the industry is shut down (although that wouldn't help things either). It's actually because makeing new transformers is time-consuming and there are very few places that make them. If I remember correctly, there's only 5 or so places that make them in the world. I saw something on the Discovery channel about what would happen in the event of a massive solar flare, but it was a while ago, so I could be wrong.

on Jun 27, 2009

this is really depressing. I guess it's inevitable. We all think we are going to die because of global warming or a lack or Ozone or maybe a war because petrolium is all gone.

 

Not dying because we lost electricity, That sucks...  We are so young and so fragile and so arrogant...

on Jun 27, 2009

Moosetek13
Wow.

 

Exactly why I never get a flue shot, or any other med that would compromise my own immune system.

My body can take care of itself, thank you very much. I don't need no stinkin' shot to do what my own body can do for itself!

 

Flu shots and other vaccines expose you to a small dose of live or killed pathogens or their surface proteins giving your natural immune system a chance to learn how to fight the infection.  Your immune system remembers and if you are infected again it fights far more effectively.

on Jun 27, 2009

If I remember correctly, vaccine actually BOOST the immune system, as its activity is increased when they are preasant.

In any event, terrorist do not strike me as very bright people, and I doubt that they could pull this off. Also, Brad ignored the fact that a lot of aid would be coming by plane, as opposed to by road: the Air Force often uses those big cargo planes to drop food & suppli9es, and I believe that the technology is common to other developed countries around the world. Lastly, I know from experiance that insulin can last for several months without refrigeration: you would run out before it ever "went bad".

on Jun 27, 2009

Switch EMP Nukes with Solar Flares, then you would have a global scale situation rather than isolated to the USA.

on Jun 27, 2009

It's actually because makeing new transformers is time-consuming and there are very few places that make them. If I remember correctly, there's only 5 or so places that make them in the world. I saw something on the Discovery channel about what would happen in the event of a massive solar flare, but it was a while ago, so I could be wrong.

Yeah, I'm with you there, they are very hard to make, and they can't be fixed if destroyed in the way we are describing -- they have to be replaced.  My point was if the infrastructure breaks down, you can't even start making new ones until someone bootstraps industry somewhere.  Not arguing with anything you said though, I think we have the same point of view.

 

on Jun 27, 2009

Couple of clarifications:

1) I never said it was 1 nuke. From the first paragraph:

5 container ships in the gulf of Mexico fire medium range SCUD missiles high into the atmosphere until it reaches far above Kansas and other states.

That's because SCUD missiles have a maximum altitutde of about 150km so I said 5 container ships shooting them above various states to get the blanket protection.

2) The article explicitly mentions air lifting. However, you could not use airlifts to supply the United States. It took the bulk of the US air force to airlift 1 city during the Berlin airlift.

3) I definitely think there are other things that can have the same effect such as solar flares. People often forget that our electronic society is a very very recent phenomenon.  For all we know, serious solar activity could be like a 100 year flood type scenario and we just haven't run into it yet.

on Jun 27, 2009

tl,dr;

One thing caught my eye though: "nearly everyone with type 1 diabetes will have died".

Errm, okay? I have type one diabetes but you can live on for ages because with a lack of insulin your blood sugar will stay high and even a sugar cube can 'keep you going' for quite a while. Okay, (fresh) food will be gone but you can live on just carbs from your closed a long time. We'd feel piss poor and be destroying our organs, but that won't be of much concern in above situation.

on Jun 27, 2009

I think people are seriously overestimating the EMP effect produced by nuclear weapons, as well as vulnerability of our electronics to it. The OP article sounds more like doomsday scenarios often aired on Discovery and such, which take scientific facts and spin them into extreme and spectacular.

on Jun 27, 2009

It took the bulk of the US air force to airlift 1 city during the Berlin airlift.

In the 1940s. The technology has significantly improved since then. Cargo planes cross the Atlantic all the time. If worst came to worst, they could always rip the seats out of passenger airliners and use them.

One thing I was thinking about: people would notice that this wasn't a regular blackout. Thanks to bad sci-fi video games, the concept of an EMP is relatively well known. People would see that cell phones and other non-gid-powered gadgets weren't working, and a lot of them would say "isn't there supposed to be some kind of bomb that burns out electronic stuff?" Of course, the EMP effect is often portrayed as being temporary and local, so I imagine a lot of people would try to wait it out or get out of the "force field". When that didn't work, they would probably panic.

My knowledge of electrical physics is not perfect: is it the total length of the wire that determines the energy absorbed, or the distance over land the wire travels? If it is the latter, then generators and electric motors would still work, as the wire is coiled and takes up a comparitively tiny amount of space.

on Jun 27, 2009

Trigeminal


 

Flu shots and other vaccines expose you to a small dose of live or killed pathogens or their surface proteins giving your natural immune system a chance to learn how to fight the infection.  Your immune system remembers and if you are infected again it fights far more effectively.

Yes, I know how they work.

What I don't know, is what other effects it might have - intentional or not - or if it is even for the flu strain that I'm infected with.

Personally, I trust this government less and less as time goes on. Washington is corrupt from the top down, with very few exceptions. And it seems to get worse with every new administration.

I would not put it past them to introduce something nasty through those flu shots. Our government has been guilty of eugenics in the past, and they are even more corrupt now.

on Jun 27, 2009

Although I wouldn't put it past the security wings to try to mess with people's medicine, there are three major problems with that:

  1. Flu shots are privately made and distributed. There is really no way for the government to tamper with them.
  2. People leak. The government has tried to do sneaky stuff in the past. Somebody always taks, and whatever they are doing is smeared all over the news as, or even before, it happens.
  3. There's no motive. The only things you would put in there that you would want to be quiet about would be harmful and/or poisonous (they would be trumpeting any healty additions every chance they got), and since there is no way to target specific individuals or groups, all they would be able to accomplish is to sicken or kill a large portion of the population, which would only hurt us economically. (And no, mind control drugs do't exist outside of Hollywood.)
on Jun 27, 2009

I think the EMP destruction of a single weapon (assuming it's from a nuclear weapon) would be closer to taking out a city, not the entire USA.

Only the pre-cold-war Soviet Union and the USA have, AFAIK, enough resources to create enough weapons to wipe our entire naton.

Of course, if you launch that many nukes, the EMP bursts are gonna be the least of your worries.

 

Farm equipment is unlikely to go dead. The metal in a tractor is likely to act as a Faraday cage, the metal of the engine is likely to absorb a lot of the electrical charge, and spark/glow plug wires are designed to handle large voltages. In addition, I don't see targeting farmland as being effective, as it tends to be sparse and have relatively little population.

A diesel engine that is already running would continue to run, FYI: Glow plugs don't depend on electrical current to funciton, they rely on heat being generated in the engine. Unless the fuel pump was blown, in which case you're in trouble.

This article *does* seem to imply that any destruction of them will be 100% complete and total. I'm not sure that's true.

 

"Every airplane flying crashes."

This is false. Many aircraft, even today, use hydraulics for flight controls, and would be capable enough to perform an emergency landing upon total electrical (and even engine) failure. In addition, most aircraft with fly by wire systems have redundancy, so you'd have to blow out all backup systems.

Aircraft close to the EMP blast may have total electrical failure - but further away, it would be feasible that it doesn't blow out everything and it would still be able to perform an emergency landing using the backups.

Cars and aircraft are actually much more likely to survive an EMP blast than household items, due to  their metallic exteriors acting as Faraday cages, and due to the fact that they're not connected to the electrical grid (which may be transmitting electrical surges).

If you suspect an EMP is coming, it would be a good idea to unplug everything. The power grid would certainly be transmitting large surges.

 

"Remember, people aren’t hearing anything from the authorities."

Sure they are. It'll just be mostly local stuff from the mayor and the police. Some radios may still work: An EMP may wipe out a lot, but I seriously doubt it's a 100% guaruntes of destruction of electronics. You may mave 80-90% of electonics wiped out, but I doubt 100%.

"Really large cities away from the coast are dead at this point. "

Okay - I dunno what's with this guy and coastlines. The farmers are gonna have their tractors running pretty quickly, even if they were affected by the initial EMP. There will probably be more food near farlmand areas than at the coasts.

 

"Conservatively, you’re looking at 40% of the population of the US and Canada has died."

Maybe, maybe not. This is only one way it could happen. It's purely a hypothetical exercise.

 

A few would hold to their fundamental Christian beliefs, and they would physically die for their efforts.

We've been through worse. Take a look at Rome shortly after the Biblical events.

I think that 'human nature' is basically bad.

That's what fundamental Christian beliefs teach.

 

My knowledge of electrical physics is not perfect: is it the total length of the wire that determines the energy absorbed, or the distance over land the wire travels?

Total length, with a caveat: If the current is high enough, a voltage may jump across the windings.

on Jun 27, 2009

1) I never said it was 1 nuke. From the first paragraph:

5 container ships in the gulf of Mexico fire medium range SCUD missiles high into the atmosphere until it reaches far above Kansas and other states.

That's because SCUD missiles have a maximum altitutde of about 150km so I said 5 container ships shooting them above various states to get the blanket protection.

Well, you didn't exactly word that well. Maybe it should be changed to "until they reach far above Kansas and other states." The way you have it, there is some confusion. You start out with multiple missiles, then one, then back to multiple. And when you contiue, it goes back to one.

On board are 45KT nuclear warhead. It explodes creating EMP that takes out all of the integrated circuits in the United States.

Not to be the grammar nazi or anything, but it is a little confusing.

Even with multiple warheads, it still is a very unlikely senario. I could see a terrorist group getting a hold of 1, maybe 2 nukes, but 5? That's pushing it a little. The same goes with N Korea, Iran, etc. They can barely even make one.

2) The article explicitly mentions air lifting. However, you could not use airlifts to supply the United States. It took the bulk of the US air force to airlift 1 city during the Berlin airlift.

Scoutdog already pointed this out, but it was 60 years ago. Cargo planes today have much larger capacity, longer range, and there are just more of them in general. Not to mention the huge fleets of strategic bombers that could perform a similar function if needed.

3) I definitely think there are other things that can have the same effect such as solar flares. People often forget that our electronic society is a very very recent phenomenon. For all we know, serious solar activity could be like a 100 year flood type scenario and we just haven't run into it yet.

Actually, solar flare activity is much better documented than most people would think. While not incedibly rare in themselves, the gaint ones that could knock out large sections of a country are pretty uncommon.

I think people are seriously overestimating the EMP effect produced by nuclear weapons, as well as vulnerability of our electronics to it. The OP article sounds more like doomsday scenarios often aired on Discovery and such, which take scientific facts and spin them into extreme and spectacular.

Not really. One relatively weak nuke (Hiroshima sized) could theorectially knock out the entire US, but it would have to be very, very high above the surface, higher than most satellites orbit, which makes it unlikely to happen. Electronics are quite vulnerable to them as well.

My knowledge of electrical physics is not perfect: is it the total length of the wire that determines the energy absorbed, or the distance over land the wire travels? If it is the latter, then generators and electric motors would still work, as the wire is coiled and takes up a comparitively tiny amount of space.

I believe that it is the total length of wire, but don't quote me on that.

on Jun 27, 2009

Not really. One relatively weak nuke (Hiroshima sized) could theorectially knock out the entire US, but it would have to be very, very high above the surface, higher than most satellites orbit, which makes it unlikely to happen. Electronics are quite vulnerable to them as well.

 

I'd like to see some hard data on that. As far as I know, the EMP range of conventional nukes is actually not that large and certainly not that powerful. And it doesn't increase with range, so if a low-altitude detonation couldn't fry the entire US, a high-alt detonation would do even less damage.

Again I should mention the solar storms, which arguably deliver a very powerful and widespread jolt to the electric grid and they only cause outages due to overload failures of the power grid, since the massive electromagnetic field can induce a huge amount of current in the transcontinental and trans-state power cables. They, however, cause minimal damage to everyday electric objects and electronics which are protected against power spikes.

I doubt today's common nuclear weapons could top the magnitude of an electromagnetic storm produced by the local star.

 

Now a much more realistic scenario would be low-altitude detonation of "dirty" nuclear weapons, which are easier to make than sophisticated orbital EMP devices and cause a much more widespread destruction via long-term contamination of land, food and water supplies. If you wanted to "kill" an entire country, that would be the way to do it... render the land uninhabitable, not fry their iPods.

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