In my view you should not be required to have a particular resource point under your control in order to make something because trade should allow you to acquire the resources you need.

 

Whether trading is done at the macro level (city size nets you X resources as traders shuffle in and out of your city), or with players being required to actively set up and maintain trade routes for specific resources is another question which boils down to how much time do you want players spending on resource management?

 

Using the Civ 4 model where not having a resource means not being able to produce a certain type of unit I believe there’s a bit too much emphasis placed on resources.  Since resource placement was random, games could be won and lost based on starting position rather than skill which IMO isn’t ideal.

 

That’s not to say that resources shouldn’t play a major role.  I think you’re on the right track with having resource points grant significant bonuses to resource accumulation.  I think the best approach may be an all of the above one in which cities slowly gain resources naturally based on size, resource nodes give bonuses to the rate of gain and trade between cities and/or empires modifies gains further.  That way if one part of the system falls apart, say a war disrupts trade, you aren’t completely crippled.

More Resources!

I love that Idea, I like the Idea of it being more realistic in that you need a multitude of resources rather then just say food and Iron, or like Total Annihilation Mass and Energy, having more resources, drives more need in your Empire, also it makes the game more difficult, and its fun having to secure resources, as long as its not like Heroes of might and magic, where you capture a mine, and 30 seconds later the enemy is capturing it, and has 37 heroes just doing that, so you can never get them all. then more resources !

If a race like the Zulus is the only option to trade/diplomatically get a resourse in Civ4, again, your sol.  You have to fight to get the resourse, and, without the resourse you can't really fight.  No human player or aggresive AI ever trades/gives up any needed resourse that they know their opponent needs.

Firstly I would advocate for a rarety system with resources common resources could be collected just be the base tile type within your cities borders. I guess common resources would be things like food, timber, rock and possibly even weaker metals like bronze? Uncommon resources could be higher quality versions of the above plus some exotic resources like herbs/horses/iron that are used for research/units and rarer resources are the pinnacle of that type of resource like magic pool(research?), bears/griffins, mithril ect.

Well as I see it Elemental has the ability to have a resource used within our empire in 1 of 3 ways. All of which could be used at the same time, so the system I’d propose covers strategic (within the empires borders) as well as production of the resource (within a city border or in the tile of a city).

 

A. Within the Empire borders.

B. Within a city’s border (i.e area of control of that city)

C. Worded tile within a city.

The first way ( A ) could grant you the ability use that resource for product, research etc aka as it does in Civ4. But you get no bonus production for having the resource, just the ability to use it.

Having a resource within a city’s border ( B ) grants you production of that resource in your city, i.e. your people gather the resource and bring the resource back to that city. I would give a production value of 1 to each resource collected this way.

Lastly having a resource worked as a tile (i.e. with an improvement building) within your city gives you a large bonus to the amount of that resource that you can collect, since your population doesn’t have to travel to work the resource.

As an example of what I mean take a resource like Bears.

If you have 3 bear resources in your empire then you can build/train bear cavalry throughout your empire. Each resource will grant you say 1 bears in the warehouse of each city that controls (within borders) that resource. Further more if the resource is being worked as a tile in a city, say a ?stable? has been built on that resource that give it say +400% production for that resource.

So if 1 city has a bear resource within its borders it will produce 1 bear a turn. While another one of your cities is working the 2^nd bear resource tile and has the last bear resource within its borders then it would be producing 6 bears a turn (1+1+4(400% production bonus for the worked tile).

 

Yep, definately more. Also I would like to see a sliding scale of rare non trickle recources down to trickling foundation resources.

Also +1 to this excellent post:

 

As an addendum to my previous post: it'd be nice if not every empire needed the same resources in order to be successful, and that trade was necessary to use your own resources to the best of your ability.

Being someone like the mongols shouldn't get you boned, just because you're on the plains and raise cattle and horses and don't have much iron. After-all, they did manage to conquer a large portion of the world and build a brief but massive empire with mostly horses and bows.

I disagree.  You finish researching Bronze.  You find this rock that weeps red when it gets wet.  I have no idea what it is good for but because there is a lot of it around lets spend some time and money finding out.

I want my Nation to be defined by it's resources.

If everyone has to reaserch everything to see the resources then they will.  If you can see the next level of resources BEFORE you research them people are more likely to specialize.  That is what I want to see happen.

 

Sammual

As I recall there was some talk of mythical beasts, dungeons or other things that you wouldn't see every game and in fact might be quite rare.  While mundane resources like wood, iron, etc. should always be on maps in some quantity, I would be most pleased if rare resources with strange properties appeared, varying your choices of what equipment to implement.

Kiithed broke the thread for IE... but at least his post is really interesting. I like it (the idea in the post, not to be forced to use Firefox to visit this forum).

About civilizations not trading resources... once upon a time, some people wouldn't trade the secrets of Bronze.

 

I disagree entirely (or at least, with the diagnosis of the problem). In Civ IV you had extremely important resources - iron in the early game, coal and oil in the later game. Without these your military and infrastructure was severely disadvantaged.

Your solution is make sure everyone can get hold of these resources. To me, this is boring - why have resources at all if everyone has them?

Instead, it's far better to make it so while you may not have iron, you've got something equally profound but in a different direction. Perhaps you have a node of fire, which lets you cast powerful fire spells instead. And you end up building armies with flaming copper swords instead of iron weapons. Or you have a water node, and your troops have boots of water walking. Or you have horses, and you have fast mounted troops. Or you have gold, and can afford to hire mercenaries and enjoy lots of trade.

Without alternatives, lacking a resource is just a disadvantage. With alternatives, resources begin to define what sort of empire you have.

Indeed. It should work like it worked in the HoMM games. That was perfect imo.

It seems like there are two important ideas when it comes to the strategic purpose of resources.

Idea 1:

This idea envisions resources as a way to shape and diversify factions according to the resources they have in abundance.  This would promote diversity and keep games original and fresh by causing factions to specialize based on their geographical and diplomatic situation.  It also has historical roots: the Mongols and their horses, the Vikings and their ships, etc.

Idea 2:



This idea views resources as a catalyst for warfare, trade, and diplomacy.  For this to work, there must exist resources that you need to get your hands on if you want to be competitive in the game.  If you cannot obtain these resources, your nation will be severely set back.  This would encourage players to make important strategic decisions and force factions into either trade or war in order to secure resources.  This also has historical roots: Japan attacking the Allies in WWII to secure access to oil, the rivalry between Byzantium and Venice over trade, etc.


Ideally both ideas will be implemented, but they do provide a bit of tension.  Having many required resources means that less time can be spent on specialization and all factions will eventually end up with similar units and buildings.  Allowing factions to specialize and remain competitive means that they will have less of a need to trade and conquer in order to obtain new resources.

The best system will be one that balances these tensions.

I really don't want cities (or anything else, for that matter) generating "free" resources.  It does a couple things:

1. It allows large numbers of cities to make up for not controlling resources.  Thus, in time, bigger factions will always have a resource advantage over small ones.

2. It makes it far less likely that factions will go to war over key resources.  If everyone can have access to "Faery-wrough Adamantium", if only in small quantities, what's the push for a map tile?

That said, I'm okay with having multiple ways of getting a resource in addition to "owning it" and "harvesting it".  Trade is one approach; raiding caravans and plundering cities and battlefields is another.

Basically what I was getting at and really the way I'd like to see the game unfold.  It will be quite boring if every sovereign has access to the same resources, but competing against each other with different ones would be quite fun.

My suggestions are based on balance, realism be damned. And as I have never played a Civ game except Civ 2 The Test of Time for 30min I got no influence from that IMO boring gameseries.

 

Resourcesystem

The basic resources (like Wood & Ore in HoMM) could generate automatically at a very low rate. Every other resource you'd have to mine/trade/steal though. This would allow you to build, produce and train a little but that's it.

 

And no marketplace like in HoMM!   You should have to trade with the other sovereigns (and at prices you decide nonetheless.)