AI: Thing’s I’ve got that you don’t

Published on November 10, 2011 By Draginol In FE Sneak Peeks

Elemental has rally points.

Oh, you guys don’t get them. There’s no UI for it presently. But they’re there. Just like in Galactic Civilizations but much more sophisticated.

Did I mention you guys don’t get them right now?

One of the things I’ve been working on is getting the AI to use them in ways far beyond what I’ve done in GalCiv or other AI’s before. Using rally points intelligently (and without using a lot of CPU time) is a serious trick.

Now, in the screenshot above, the AI’s archer army is building up just outside of town even though those armies had to collect together from a very long way away.

While simple on the surface to do, there’s a lot of thought that has to go into making this work (otherwise, the player could just figure out where the rally points are and station an army there ready to pick them off, there’s a lot of timing involve to make sure units aren’t vulnerable long).

Comments (Page 4)

Cruxador

on Nov 12, 2011

Winnihym

reply 41

Just like in D&D; a death (and resurrection) costs 1 point in constitution; or one level.

That's way more boring than a negative trait, though.
Also I don't think they have things set up such that they can easily take levels off, but taking a Con point off is a pretty good thing for a negative trait to do.

Cruxador

on Nov 12, 2011

AlLanMandragoran

reply 45

How about a ransom and if accepted, a negative trait? Persons of importance could be captured instead of outright killed, ransomed based upon some calculation of their worth (XP, items, etc.), and if the ransom is refused, executed?

[Edit] Let me clarify further:

If a champion reaches 0 hp in a tactical battle and his/her side wins, he/she doesn't die but instead needs to take a random negative trait and/or stat reduction such as -1 to constituion or something similar. If a champion is wounded and then his/her side flees, he/she is captured, held for ransom, and if ransom refused, executed. Certain monster types such as spiders would never hold for ransom - not enough intelligence for that.

If a champion reaches 0 hp in a tactical battle and the opposite side wins, he/she is captured, held for ransom, and if ransom refused, executed. Again, ransom is determined off monster type or intelligence check.

Just thinking Game of Thrones type thing: if an important person is captured they are held for ransom/gain.

[Editx2] Instead of automatic execution if ransom declined, maybe, depending on the opponent, champion can change allegiance to spare his/her life. For example, I lose a tactical battle to an enemy AI. Ransom is demanded, I refuse or am incapable of making payment. Champion decides to switch allegiance to spare his/her life.

[Editx3] Could introduce a 10% chance (or some other value) that if a champion reaches 0 hp they die thereby leaving no chance for capture/ransom. With that said, could introduce a positive trait to champions where if they are mortally wounded to 0 hp, it reduces the chance of death to 9%, 5%, or some other value. Call it survivability, battle luck, or something similar. Could also consider a charisma check that if captured, enemy never executes the champion.

Just thinking out loud here.

A captive system would be a cool thing to have, but half-assing it isn't a good idea, and doing it right would undoubtedly require more resources than Derek is willing to put in. I would like to see this stuff, but... maybe it should be in the second expansion. Then we can get a more thorough captive system, allowing characters to be held, interrogated, to try escaping, and etc. There'd be some way of determining how willing to surrender someone is, assuming you as the player didn't choose to surrender yourself, and there could be particular spells and gear (nets) to play into this.
That would be a great system and add a lot to the game. But it's way beyond the scope of the problem we're currently discussing.

Rishkith

on Nov 12, 2011

BoogieBac

reply 33

"Or a chance to sustain new negative traits?" <--- I dig this one - each war wound tells a story.

I second that as well. Negative traits add a lot more character to a hero. Extra kudos if you can code it to make the table for determining the random trait based on what enemies or attacks the hero was defeated in combat with.

Frogboy

on Nov 12, 2011

I prefer some interesting traits.

The system supports it so we don't have any reason to just hard code some number to the stats.

There a "Clutz" trait which believe me means something (has a small random chance to hit an adjacent friendly unit in tactical combat).

Frogboy

on Nov 12, 2011

In fact, it would be kind of interesting to see a unit pile on all kinds of horrible traits with the more deaths, the more mangled the unit becomes until you would just want to disband him.

scifi1950

on Nov 12, 2011

changed

scifi1950

on Nov 12, 2011

Frogboy

reply 50

In fact, it would be kind of interesting to see a unit pile on all kinds of horrible traits with the more deaths, the more mangled the unit becomes until you would just want to disband him.

How about an enchantment spell that turns the units loyalty to your opponent. The other sovereign would have to reverse the spell before disbanding. The more mana you add to the spell the higher the cost to disband.

AlLanMandragoran

on Nov 12, 2011

If the AI isn't smart enough to know whether a quest is too difficult, doesn't that potentially mean the AI could end up with a bunch of negative trait champions (which is probably better than dead champions but still...)?

I do like the idea of negative traits but worry the AI could be hamstrung...

Ausland

on Nov 13, 2011

Maybe the champion should be unavailable for x number of turns as well, healing up in a medical tent or something. It would be annoying to defeat a tough champion just to fight him again the next turn possibly healed up with some potions and just a negative trait as punishment.

mqpiffle

on Nov 14, 2011

Death trait suggestions:

Crippled: Unit can only use one arm/hand. -10 strength.

Lame: Unit can only move 1 tile / round. -10 dodge.

Blind (loses an eye): -10 accuracy.

Mangled: -10 charisma

Drain Bamaged: -10 int.

edit: There ought to be circumstances where a champion can die outright, however, without a chance of resurrection. Like if they get struck dead-on by a ballista bolt or a super-massive fireball. Maybe if they sustain an injury which damages them for more than 50% of their total hp and it puts them at or below 0 hp they have a chance, adjusted by CON, of dying.

Campaigner

on Nov 18, 2011

Jeez people, you sure jump on the suggestion bandwagon quickly. Remember what Derek said: Simple systems that cooperate.

First thing I thought of was the WarCraft III system: When the hero die you pay and wait a while for him to resurrect. That may not be a great enough sacrifice though (especially in lategame) but time definetly is. The higher the lvl of the hero the more time until he's resurrected.

Now, we can have a complicated system with negative traits and stuff but you have to make sure it works. And considering they're close to BETA I doubt there's time to think out and implement such a system.

Ah yes, the original topic was about rallypoints (funny that all the Sneak Peak discussions drift of into something else by page 2 and 3....).

Whatever works and doesn't cheat.

ZehDon

on Nov 18, 2011

Well, what's being suggested is really a modification of an existing system: the trait system already exists.

The amount of work necessary to expand that to allow additional traits to be added on death isn't as much as it might seem, and is a far more interesting and fun system than "My champion died, now I have to pay [x] gilar and wait [x] minutes". While it might be self-balancing, it's also pretty boring.

I like the idea - risk too much, and your champion is basically going to be detrimental to anything he's attached to. It's great.

I'd like to add that the way the Champion dies should have some degree of impact on which trait he/she receives upon death.
If they're killed with Fire Magic, perhaps they gain a weakness to Fire Magic? If they are killed by a normal unit, perhaps their healing rate drops? Something along those lines, to make it more predictable.

Grizzyloins

on Nov 18, 2011

"I'd like to add that the way the Champion dies should have some degree of impact on which trait he/she receives upon death.
If they're killed with Fire Magic, perhaps they gain a weakness to Fire Magic? If they are killed by a normal unit, perhaps their healing rate drops? Something along those lines, to make it more predictable."

I really like this, it really would tell a story, 'you see an enemy general comin at ya, he's only got one eye & walks with a limp, & looks like Vader after the lava incident, but glowing from head to toe with magic items leading an army of battle hardened elite soldiers right towards your capitol'

mrmills

on Nov 19, 2011

Brad, could I direct your attention to your buggy post http://draginol.joeuser.com/article/412778 (Solar Power, First Month) which has been the main factor in your feed generating 546 articles in my feed reader, Google Reader, in the past 30 days? That one post has been copied into my feed so much that it is more common than the next-biggest contributor to my feed, Ars Technica's Journals.

Seriously, 546 articles! Almost 20 times a day, getting that same duplicate post!

Please could you stop the madness? Get JoeUser fixed, delete the post, something? Please?

mqpiffle

on Nov 19, 2011

ZehDon

reply 57

Yes.

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