I thought that's why we sent Curiosity to Mars. There was another reason?

Politicians have more in common with felons than any other vocation, yet I'm the conspiracy theorist for holding their "scientists" on the same level as the oil company's.

Another thing I find hard to understand is the folks who sit in front of computers and decry technology. Yet another oxymoron.

Disappointing.

You're willing to settle for just three?

Where's the entrepreneurial spirit, eh?

Wait - psychoak rejects global warming? Could there be a better case for it?

Ain't that the sad truth.  And we have to look to them to 'save' us?

Unless you can come up with a better way for collective decision making. I hear the guys behind the pirate party in Germany eventually want to go back to direct Democracy (i.e. something like allowing citizens to vote on legislation directly) via the internet. I'm not sure if the results would be any better though, given how citizens initiatives in places like California have sometimes turned out.

A representative republic is ugly and messy.  And the best form of government in the history of mankind.  Just have to maintain your sense of cynical realism.

And A/C.

Indeed

You do realize that CO2 is a poor insulator of heat right? in fact it's approximately 1000 times weaker at holding into heat then Water Vapor.

That fact alone means CO2 can't be a greenhouse gas, or if it is then Water Vapor is 1000 times more dangerous AS a Greenhouse gas.

Secondly, CO2 emissions increase as a effect of heat rise, this is known as "outgassing"

Thirdly, The Carbon Cycle, look it up

Fourthly, we humans cause about 1% of the CO2 on this planet, and CO2 is a trace gas, which is about 1% of the total atmosphere, meaning we humans are effecting 1% of 1% of the atmosphere.

Fifthly, If CO2 levels were rising at dramatically as claimed, Plant life would flourish, and I mean big time, you would have leave sizes in the meters, much like during the time of the dinosaurs. which in turn would respirate more and bring the CO2 levels down and O2 levels up.

Sixthly, CO2 levels fluctuate with the year, as does the heat, and the AGW climate supporters have purposely taken data at the wrong parts of the year to misrepresent that data and have been caught doing so (IE. taking the first data point in winter, then going back to the same place but taking the second datapoint in summer.)

Seventhly, The East Anglia Climate Research Institute which provides the UN and pretty much everybody with the information on AGW, have been caught manipulating their data models to misrepresent data, which they have been caught doing, and so any subsequent data or conclusions based on that data are inherently flawed as a result.

Eighthly, AGW does NOT at any point ever take the Sun into account on any calculation and assumes MAN is the primary cause, this is flawed, scientists have established the SUN as the Primary driver of our climate, so the Hypothesis statement "Man is the Primary cause." is flawed.

and Finally, there are MANY MANY more, and actual Environmental problems that ARE being caused by man that because everyone is so focused on AGW have become largely ignored, which include corporations purposefully destroying resources for the sake of achieving scarcity to keep the prices of products or services high, and keeping processes inefficient for the same reason.

and lastly, the purported "solutions" to AGW include financial compensation, (IE. Paying Al Gore for license to pollute), how does what amounts to an "Indulgence" (Look up catholic theology if you don't know what that is.) fix the environ? It doesn't it just makes Al Gore richer.

Another of the solutions include, deindustrialization, so turning back the hands of time on civilization and return to subsistence level of living. RIGHT, and that helps US how???

and last of the "solutions": Population Reduction, this is the most asinine of the 3, because it assumes that AGW is caused because their are too many people, that the Earth has somehow reached a maximum capacity. Which BTW is a complete falsehood. If everyone was given a 44*44 Sq ft space, which a family of four would add up to a house with a lawn, the ENTIRE population of the Earth could fit into a landmass the size of Texas, though yes it would be just one large suburb but that would leave the rest of the PLANET completely empty. And though that particular scenario wouldn't be tenable it was simply being used to point out that the population of the Earth is no where NEAR a supposed limit, and that we live in dense clusters and the vast majority of the Earth is actually quite empty.

-Æ

Man made Global warming.... a manufactured excuse to extract money from those who can least afford it.

Carbon taxes imposed on companies just get passed onto the consumer... ordinary folk already struggling to keep a roof over their heads, clothes on their backs and put food on the table.

For mine, the arsewipes who came up with this global warming bullshit should be summarily executed for crimes against humanity.

Carbon, warming, population reduction... who cares???

No fuzzy logic there, mate. Best argument for letting them go wild and heat things up. The quicker the better!

Come on, people. Since when facts matter?

Giordano Bruno proved that heliocentric model is correct, and got burned for it at stake. It took 450 years for the Catholic church to admit he and Galileo was right. 

If facts mattered, how could the obsolete church model endure so long? 

The truth is  that facts do not matter and people are just barking the bark of their tribe. For right-wingers/industrialists/bankers/tea-partisans, climate change does not occur, fossil fuels are infinite and communism is to blame for everything. 

For the facts camp, climate change is real and happening faster than thought before.

But even more important than the sole phenomenon is the sustainability of our current socio-economic system. Is it sustainable?

Hell no. We are just arriving at the point that is described as "Malthusian trap" according to simple observations made by Malthus a long time ago:

1) People need to eat

2) People will continue to multiply no matter what

Eventually, population (and need) growth must surpass the resource and technological expansion, leading first to population overshoot, then to decline in population.

Our situation is aggravated by the fact that we depend on oil for just about everything. Peak conventional oil was in 2005 and once the already experienced declines (Brent declines 14% annually) start to kick in, no subtle shift in interest rates will stave of the collapse.

not according to wikipedia:

"Global production of oil fell from a high point in 2005 at 74 mb/d, but has since rebounded, and 2011 figures show slightly higher levels of production than in 2005."

and unconventional oil is A-ok. besides. higher gas prices means other methods of enegry production become more economical right?

Every single hydrocarbon we pull out of the ground used to be some pre-historic plant or animal... and those animals ate plants. All those plants absorbed that carbon from somewhere.   All we are doing is putting back the carbon back where it used to be.

That said, I expect some sort of collapse, but from massive government debts and overspending (see Greece), not energy production.

1.  Don't presume to know what I/we think/believe.

2.  Don't attempt to deflect with nonsequitors.

3.  Don't presume that only one 'camp' has facts.

Thank you.

Thanks Kamamura, you made my day with that post.

Did you know the Catholic Church is one of the institutions pushing this global warming crap?  The Anglican Church is pushing it too, along with most of the major religious organizations.  One of life's little ironies.