Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.

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What kind of people are you?

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I think the biggest reason the Galactic Civilizations series has been so popular over the years has been because each game is your own epic story.

In fact, the biggest request we get is to make the galaxy feel move alive.  With this Spring's mega expansion to Galactic Civilizations III, we hope to do just that.

With Galactic Civilizations III: Crusade, we've been able to use the new, 64-bit, multicore game engine to create a much more lively universe as the engine allows us to deal with a lot more entities than what was possible in, say, Galactic Civilizations II.

Today, let's talk about what kind of civilization you might want to create.

Crusade Economics: A Primer

Galactic Civilizations has been with me my entire adult life.  Since 1992, I've been making this game (GalCiv OS/2, GalCiv I, GalCiv II).  I took a break to design Ashes of the Singularity and now I'm back for the Crusade with a re-imagined look at how the economy works.

In Crusade, everything is very, very tight. That is, every resource matters.  The numbers across the board are much smaller and this has ramifications everywhere.  The result is a massive change to the pacing. It's both faster than the base game (early game) and slower (late game, techs and buildings and cool ships are not a 1-turn affair).  Each choice you make is meant to be meaningful.

Let's start from the beginning of a game:

TURN 1

TURN 1: RESEARCH CHOICES

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A: Research Resource Exploitation, which gives me access to Kimbrey's Refuge (a Galactic Achievement that produces 4 food, the only early game way of producing global food)

OR

B: Research Planetology, which let's me build Brindle's Observatory, a Galactic Wonder that will discover a nearby Earthlike planet. 

OR

Research Interstellar Travel, which speeds up my ships by 1 move per turn

OR

Research Militarization, which will let me build the Strategic Command wonder and award me with a General (super early game invasions)

OR

Xeno Commerce, which lets me start building freighters

OR

Get Universal Translator, which will give me the ability to build the Galactic Intelligence Agency and grant me a spy very early on.

 

TURN 1: PLANET CHOICES

After we pick what technology we want to research, we are brought to the home planet (in this case, Earth) to decide what to build...

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A: Basic Factory to build things faster?

B: Research Lab to get new tech faster?

C: Shipyard to be able to build ships?

Wait, what? Yes. I took away your magic shipyard.  It's gone.  You have to build it. 

The shipyard bugged me a lot.  Here's why:

From 1992 when I started programming Galactic Civilizations for OS/2 all the way to 2008 when I worked on Galactic Civilizations II: Twilight of the Arnor, it was always with the premise that Turn 1 took place the same day Earth launched its first interstellar ship (and later, whatever alien race you're playing as).

Then suddenly, in GalCiv III you have a shipyard, a Colony ship, a Scout, and a Survey ship?  It just felt like we had gotten pretty far away from the idea that we're at the dawn of the galactic age. 

Now, I can hear some of you all the way from here saying, "But the early game will be too slow."  If we did this in the base game, it would be too slow.  But, like I said, numbers and early game is different now.

Crusade is NOT about spamming out colony ships.  The idea here is to have lots of interesting viable strategies.

If the early turns of a game are "boring," the answer is to fix that by making your choices more interesting, not throwing more stuff at you to do.  The base game of GalCiv III would be too slow if you didn't have all that stuff to do.  But Crusade is designed so that each turn matters including the first one and without so much stuff.

...

Now, getting back to our tough choice.   I am going to choose FACTORY because there's a +3 manufacturing bonus tile.  And I will rush buy it.

And for my tech choice, I decide to choose Planetology so I can get Brindle's Observatory.

TURN 1: EXPLORATION CHOICES

The Survey Ship has a name:  the T.A.S. Discovery (for Humans, anyway).   The galaxy has a lot of interesting stuff that gradually respawns.  This means one economic strategy now is to build survey ships and send them out to go collect stuff. 

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A: Send the Discovery out to explore?

B: Send it over to the bottom left to get that cargo container?

 

Yea: I want the cargo container.


 

TURN 2

 

TURN 2: EXPLORATION CHOICES

The cargo container got my research half way done! Awesome!  New choices arrive:

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A:  Send him to get the two goodie huts below?

B: Send him out to explore?

I choose the goodies.

TURN 2: PLANET CHOICES

I rush build a second factory! Madness!

Still no shipyard!

But I still have 764 credits.

Delayed gratification will pay off.


TURN 3: EXPLORATION CHOICES

Awesome.  I found 1 Antimatter module, got 18 more credits, and the Discovery leveled up! And I found a Precursor Relic. Now I command the Discovery to explore.

TURN 3: PLANET CHOICES

Oh, now...

Now I build the Shipyard. And thanks to my delayed gratification, I have a pretty decent economy going.  I might feel differently if those wonderful nearby planets get colonized, though...

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Turn 3: I can now build ships

I also order a Research Lab to be built.

 

TURN 3: SHIPYARD CHOICES

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I design a ship based on a design I downloaded from Steam.  I call it "Serenity"

Now, which ship should I build?

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A: Serenity (my custom survey ship): Survey ships will go out and collect scattered resources

B: Colony ship (so I can get those sweet planets)

C: A Constructor: So I can lay permanent claim to galactic resources

D: A scout to go out and find stuff faster

I actually choose E: A short range colony ship I designed that is stripped down so that I can build it in 6 turns.

 

TURN 3: EVENT CHOICES

On Turn 3, I encounter an alien automated cargo ship that is carrying a shipment of a material called Durantium.  Its engines have failed but it is in the process of self-repairing and will be on its way.  What should we do?

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A: Help fix the cargo vessel and send it on its way [Benevolent] (Costs 100 credits)

B: Do nothing [Pragmatic]

C: Take the Durantium and destroy the ship [Malevolent] (Gain 5 Durantium)

In Crusade, Durantium  matters. A lot.  You can't build larger hulled ships without it and you can't build the higher end factories without it.  On the other hand, if I steal it, who knows how that might come back to bite me later.  And 100 credits is a lot to fix it and it might amount to nothing...

The point being that each turn, there is something meaningful happening and it's all driven by the new economic system.  There is a cost and benefit to everything.

  • Higher end factories require Durantium
  • Higher end research labs require Promethion
  • Lots of the wonders require some sort of exotic resource
  • Advanced Beam weapons require Elerium
  • Advanced Missile weapons require Anti-matter
  • Advanced Kinetic weapons require Thulium

And don't forget that planets have lots of strange and interesting resources that are also required for certain rare galactic achievements and components.

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Planets will tell you what resources are on them. 

And I'm already thinking about my next tech choice because Interstellar Travel will let me build the Eyes of the Universe wonder, but it requires 1 anti-matter resource which, as you may recall, I found!

 

And so it goes...


Soon...

Against the backdrop of thoughtfully deciding how to spend your precious finite resources, comes the new Citizen mechanic. You receive a new citizen every 10 turns (barring civ bonuses and events).  You train them in a particular field with the number of fields to choose from based on what techs you have.

 

Resource Trading

Economics is the driving force of your civilization.  You need stuff to keep your people safe and happy.  How you get that stuff depends on your focus: Guns or Butter.

With all the talk of resources and how important they are, the cynical 4X player might be (should be) thinking "Crusade better have a really good diplomacy system!"  And the answer is, yes. Yes it does.

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The bar in the middle changes to reflect the balance of the trade. As you add/remove resources, it updates.

Trading with other civilizations is now a lot easier.  And massively more fun.

 

Commanders

One alternative to trade is, of course, conquest.

One of the careers you can choose for your citizens is Commander.  When you have Commanders available, you can select any existing fleet in your game and add a Commander to it.

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The Commander in his flag ship with his fleet

I renamed my Citizen to be Commander Xander from Canton, Michigan (for my son).  Now, the Flagship itself is pretty awesome for a number of reasons.

  1. Doubles the speed of a given fleet. 
  2. Increase the fleet's logistics by 25% which means you can have more ships in your fleet. 
  3. Increases the hit points of your fleet by 25%. 

...And the ship itself is pretty decent in combat as well.

As cool as Commanders are, it's the promotions that make them really interesting.

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If you have the right ideology and the right resources, your Commanders can do some awesome stuff.

A few examples of what your Commanders can do if you have the right ideology and the resources:

  1. Convert ship into a transport (you have an opportunity to take a key world, you can convert your Commander to a General if you have the right resources).
  2. Martyr.  Guarantees victory. Destroys enemy fleet.  Citizens are very precious, so this would be a pretty desperate measure, is only available to the Pragmatic Ideology, and has a stiff resource cost.
  3. Overlord.  If you're evil enough, you can spend the resources and convert an enemy fleet.  Your Commander doesn't die but is promoted into an Overlord in the process (so it can only be done once).
  4. Sovereign.  You can transform your Commander into a Sovereign who will convert a target enemy fleet into belonging to the League of Non-aligned worlds. You lose the Commander, but it's a great way to take out a huge enemy fleet at a lower cost.
  5. Privateer.  Your fleet becomes Privateers.  You can go attack other fleets but no one knows who they belong to.  This is really fun if you want to help a third party directly without declaring war.
  6. Admiral.  And of course, you can promote your Commander to Admiral, which upgrades his ship to something sufficiently awesome if you have enough resources.

 

Wrapping up

What is really hard to communicate in a blog like this is just how much more engaged each turn is now.  Starting next week, we're going to be streaming Crusade weekly on our Twitch.TV channel. Please do me a favor and SUBSCRIBE to that channel (they're going to take my thumbs if you don't!).  So you'll be able to see just how much more engaged each turn is.

The increase engagement is not just because of the new features.  It's a top to bottom revisit of the entire game and how the game interacts with you.

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Trading resources is very cool

Below are just some, off the top of my head, examples experienced just in this game:

  • I need to build Pascal's Garden.  This Wonder will double the planet Tristan II's influence production.  However, it requires 2 Arnorian Spice and a 1 Techapod Hive.   My friends the Altarians have the Spice and the Drengin have the Techpod hive.  The new trade system makes it easy to bargain with them to get this.
  • The Drengin come to me and want some of my Anti-matter.  I don't dare give them any because I know they have specialized on Missile weapons and the really powerful ones all use anti-matter.
  • The Yor want some Xanthium metal.  That makes me think they're probably going to be building a wonder.
  • The Drengin rely on Precursor Nanites which will allow them to promote their Engineers into Master Engineers (which will really super charge their ship building).  So I put a spy on their Precursor Nanite mine, shutting it down until they remove it. 
  • The Krynn military is getting pretty scary.  I am sending a second diplomat to them which will increase my relations.
  • All the new balancing in the game makes the numbers fit nicely together. Gone are the 100+ manufacturing per turn.  All the numbers have been rebalanced to make decisions more meaningful.  It's hard to put into words.
  • The battles look a lot cooler.
  • Everything you own (even asteroid mines) gives off a bit of influence.
  • Ideology matters a lot more.  What you can and can't do with your citizens is based on your ideological choices.
  • There are a lot more events in the game that have interesting, meaningful results (I'll be doing a blog on this soon).
  • The updated tech trees matter a lot more.  Each tech gives you something that matters. This also means we took out a lot of redundant planetary improvements.
  • The old ongoing projects thing is gone.  Instead, you can build projects that give you something specific after so many turns.
  • My breadbasket world is getting blight.  I will need to train a Farmer (which I really should have already), send them to that planet and promote him to be an Agronomist which will eliminate the blight on that planet.  Alternatively, I can click on the Blighted tiles and use Helius Ore to kill it...except I don't have any, only the Slynn have it and I'm at war with them.  But I'm currently -2 in food production which means my people are starting to starve and starving people will generate Rebels on my planet.
  • The Drengin vs. Torian war is going poorly for the Torians even though I have two Privateers nipping at Drengin freighters.
  • I built all my Wonders on Earth which let me win those wonders. But the maintenance is killing me.  I hate to do this but I'm going to promote my Administrator into a Tax collector which will increase my planet's income by 25% but will consume 2 goods and services (lowers my approval rating).

And you notice, I haven't even really gotten into Invasions yet...

NEXT WEEK: INVASIONS!

 

Screenshots:

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Every tile you own matters.  The entire influence/ZOC system has been redone.

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Strategic Zoom has been redone so that everything is cleaner. And since influence isn't just a big blob now, you have a lot more control over what is and isn't in your sphere of influence.

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Spies can tell me who they plan to attack, what their internal political issues are and of course, can steal tech, sabotage things, etc.

 

 


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Comments (Page 2)
on Mar 17, 2017

The idea of Privateer is just the kind of thing I'd like: The ability to attack the Drengin on behalf of, say, the Alterians without the Drengin declaring war on me and making mess of my puny military because they don't know just who it was who killed Fleet Bravado...

I really love the whole idea of resources and limitations: That if you go down Path A there comes a point where Path B is gone and no, you can't rethink your strategy and restart the whole thing. Those footsteps you made earlier have had consequences. Also, that you can't build as many "things" as you want. That building a Freighter means you've used up Resource A so now you've got to find/buy/steal another Resource A because you need to build the Cruiser you're going to need to fight that pesky neighbour....

 

 

on Mar 17, 2017

Suomi Sotilashenkilo

Although most of the stuff I've seen from the Crusade journals is pretty great, there is one really big thing that does worry me:

I've always hated abilities that disregard everything about the game and everything you've been trying to do; I hate auto-win buttons and abilities, no matter how expensive or potentially damaging their use might be.  I can appreciate heroes making a fleet better or giving it an advantage, but not auto-wins.  That is one thing I need to be able to turn off.

It reminds me of how in Empire at War: Forces of Corruption, if the Empire built the death star there was only one way for the Zann Consortium to defeat it.  It resulted in the death star and its entire escorting fleet being obliterated, at the cost of losing a hero permanently (although the death star was also permanently gone) and losing a bunch of money (but that's set against a death star and a crapton of wasted construction time).

I hate those sort of mechanics, where no strategy or conventional advantage can make a difference because the ability is unstoppable.

 

I can see your point. I do believe those 'insta-win abilities are really for late game when the tedious fighting each fleet can be expedited a bit faster or if you need to tip the scales a bit to annihilate an enemy fleet. Those abilities were said to be deep in the new ideology trees. I would give them a try before I pass judgment on them. I would be rather amused if I had several fleets with a hard leveled admiral and the Drengin or Krynn just take it off the playing board. <<< it would piss me off but I would know I could do it also. 

One thing I do not see and I hope they are in, are notifications that those late game 'I win' buttons were used and what their name was and who did it. Kinda like a trigger event, If you lose that fleet a banner scrolls across the top of screen in colors saying "The Krynn used a super ability 'epic fail'  and an 'executioner' citizen to destroy planet P or fleet 1087-A near Bart's Star"

on Mar 17, 2017

Have you guys reworked the Ideology system any?

To me that was one of the weak points of the base game, particularly how it relied so heavily on the colonization events to trigger anything.   If we aren't going to be colonizing as much now, then how are we going to rack up ideology points?

on Mar 17, 2017

Suomi Sotilashenkilo

Although most of the stuff I've seen from the Crusade journals is pretty great, there is one really big thing that does worry me:

I've always hated abilities that disregard everything about the game and everything you've been trying to do; I hate auto-win buttons and abilities, no matter how expensive or potentially damaging their use might be.  I can appreciate heroes making a fleet better or giving it an advantage, but not auto-wins.  That is one thing I need to be able to turn off.

It reminds me of how in Empire at War: Forces of Corruption, if the Empire built the death star there was only one way for the Zann Consortium to defeat it.  It resulted in the death star and its entire escorting fleet being obliterated, at the cost of losing a hero permanently (although the death star was also permanently gone) and losing a bunch of money (but that's set against a death star and a crapton of wasted construction time).

I hate those sort of mechanics, where no strategy or conventional advantage can make a difference because the ability is unstoppable.

Maybe a system where you can sacrifice one of your own commanders to cancel out the enemy player's attempt to sacrifice their commander?

Like, they're trying to destroy or convert your fleet with a commander; but your fleet also has a commander so the game gives you a choice.

A:  Your commander retreats, the fleet is lost; but you get to keep your commander so you can reassign them to a new fleet.

B:  Your commander kamikazes the enemy commander canceling out the attempt to destroy or convert your fleet; but you lose the commander.

on Mar 18, 2017

Suomi Sotilashenkilo

I've always hated abilities that disregard everything about the game and everything you've been trying to do; I hate auto-win buttons and abilities, no matter how expensive or potentially damaging their use might be. I can appreciate heroes making a fleet better or giving it an advantage, but not auto-wins.


I have similar feelings about this to. The way I use fleets I usually have fewer fleets with stronger ships as opposed to many fleets with smaller ships (which the AI tends to focus on) Therefore one 'Auto Win' on one of my fleets is a HUGE hit compared to the AI.

There is also the general thought I have about these kind of mechanics where, when the player user it is feels cheezy, when the AI uses it, it makes the player hate that it happen to them. With no counter or defense against it you could literally remove every ship from a fleet by sending in a level 1 scout with 1 Admiral/Commander.

I would much prefer, as implodinggoat suggests, a counter to the effect instead of an unavoidable loss. Or even some more nuance to the ability such as you fight and once the fleet is at 33%/50% ships left they convert/surrender to become the 'League of Non-aligned worlds'.

Or alternatively you use the ability and X% of the ships join your side for the battle. Then any remaining ships that survive the fight join the  'League of Non-aligned worlds' as traitors to the race they belonged to. That way its not 100% guaranteed and still takes some planning but it sill effective enough where it will most likely result in your victory.


That being said, as with all the changes, its difficult to make assumptions on how all these changes will play out until we get to try the game.

on Mar 18, 2017

Suomi Sotilashenkilo

I hate those sort of mechanics, where no strategy or conventional advantage can make a difference because the ability is unstoppable.

 

In my words: If you have a rotten AI - then go an work on the AI - and don't give the AI a master kill switch as solution for the real problem.

 

Because the faction designer is really helpfull i'm sure i will buy the expansion - but after creating some factions i kick it away or modding everything out of the game that doens't make sense (spys, martyr commanders,...)

 

on Mar 18, 2017

... looks now more the game I really want to play.
As for me a good game is to have fewer things that matter to organize and not that terrible game design, how it was, that you only will win, when you have hundreds of same planets and same space stations. But that is the problem still with Civ VI, Stellaris, MOO etc.

Also hope that 

COLONIZATION

will be changed in Crusade.

As no game, has ever managed to recreate a somehow realistic colonization model ,
that terrible game design, let just move 1 000 000 000 people to another planet and after 10 years they produce even more than the home planet, which needed thousand of years to be what it is , is too dumbed down to be a challenge or fun.
We would need also hundred of years to grow or settle even some millions of people on another planet. I think the Star Trek Universe is doing a good job to show that problematic, as only the races home worlds have > 1 000 000 000 inhabitants.
So most, if not all other new founded colonized planets, should be needed for resources, research, trading, military outpost, etc.
but near impossible to replace one of the race home worlds.

A small thing:

GAMEPLAY -> for god sake, please let us choose where we want to LAND our colony ship, it is a joke, that it is random atm and one of the worst things ...
Captain of the colonyship: oooh look we will land on this salt lake and settle here, even some 100 km away are water, fertile ground etc.

 

 

on Mar 18, 2017

00zim00

The way I use fleets I usually have fewer fleets with stronger ships as opposed to many fleets with smaller ships

I find the AI obsessed with small defensive ships. Every planet and shipyard of theirs seems to have a fleet of (typically old, slow, and underpowered) defensive ships.

I too build a few smaller, faster fleets with stronger, newer ships. Since the AI tends to keep its fleets in orbit, I often end up with about the same number of ships engaged in active operations. My ships are usually much faster, meaning I can use fewer of them on the defensive, and I can rapidly move my (also smaller) offensive forces between theaters. As long as I can get them repaired quickly, the fact that I have fewer ships than the (rich) AIs is less of an issue. It must be 'frustrating' for the AI to attack on one side, then attack somewhere far away and face the same ships! 

My older ships may get used defensively, but they are usually still fast enough that they can be maneuverable forces instead of static fleets. They can be shifted from target to target, again permitting fewer ships. This leaves potential targets behind my lines undefended, but my forces can get there quickly. And how often does the AI realize they could bypass my forward defenses? Not often. If they try, my SWACs pick it up (silly AI, not making SWAC [sensor] scouts) and vector my (still faster) defensive forces in to intercept.

I have a sneaking suspicion this strategy is going to get much more difficult in Crusade. However, it sounds more like my fleets of fast, powerful ships will simply be more expensive. I would rather see the AI update older designs, build enough SWACs to actually see the enemy coming, and at least have the option to forgo the large, out-of-date, static planetary defensive fleets. Maybe that could depend on how aggressive they are, or how undefended (low morale) colonists feel.

I am very hopeful that the AI will at least become more flexible. And I suspect their ships will become faster without having to change all the blueprints myself (I have higher modding priorities).

 

on Mar 18, 2017

FlashXAron

GAMEPLAY -> for god sake, please let us choose where we want to LAND our colony ship, it is a joke, that it is random atm and one of the worst things ...
Captain of the colonyship: oooh look we will land on this salt lake and settle here, even some 100 km away are water, fertile ground etc.

+1

or rather +100

on Mar 18, 2017

General Pants

I have a sneaking suspicion this strategy is going to get much more difficult in Crusade. However, it sounds more like my fleets of fast, powerful ships will simply be more expensive. I would rather see the AI update older designs, build enough SWACs to actually see the enemy coming, and at least have the option to forgo the large, out-of-date, static planetary defensive fleets. Maybe that could depend on how aggressive they are, or how undefended (low morale) colonists feel.

As far as I know the AI used to see everything, at least that was so before 1.8 or so. Whether that was changed since then I don't know, but I fear it was not.

Any information whether the AI really has to cope with FOW like the players in Crusade?

on Mar 18, 2017

Speaking of resources: it would be nice if the modding system would be open up so that we could introduce our own resources.

on Mar 18, 2017

Suomi Sotilashenkilo

Although most of the stuff I've seen from the Crusade journals is pretty great, there is one really big thing that does worry me:

I've always hated abilities that disregard everything about the game and everything you've been trying to do; I hate auto-win buttons and abilities, no matter how expensive or potentially damaging their use might be.  I can appreciate heroes making a fleet better or giving it an advantage, but not auto-wins.  That is one thing I need to be able to turn off.

It reminds me of how in Empire at War: Forces of Corruption, if the Empire built the death star there was only one way for the Zann Consortium to defeat it.  It resulted in the death star and its entire escorting fleet being obliterated, at the cost of losing a hero permanently (although the death star was also permanently gone) and losing a bunch of money (but that's set against a death star and a crapton of wasted construction time).

I hate those sort of mechanics, where no strategy or conventional advantage can make a difference because the ability is unstoppable.

 

I'm willing to pass judgement on this one until I see the costs involved.

I imagine that the martyr ability, along with the other "auto-win" abilities will require super-rare resources, resources that you might well either not have, or need to use for something else equally game-changing.  That would fit with their apparent goals this time around. 

 

Also, wouldn't it be just sad, if you were the only one in  the galaxy who had said super-rare resource?

on Mar 18, 2017

shayvaan


Quoting Suomi Sotilashenkilo,

Although most of the stuff I've seen from the Crusade journals is pretty great, there is one really big thing that does worry me:

I've always hated abilities that disregard everything about the game and everything you've been trying to do; I hate auto-win buttons and abilities, no matter how expensive or potentially damaging their use might be.  I can appreciate heroes making a fleet better or giving it an advantage, but not auto-wins.  That is one thing I need to be able to turn off.

It reminds me of how in Empire at War: Forces of Corruption, if the Empire built the death star there was only one way for the Zann Consortium to defeat it.  It resulted in the death star and its entire escorting fleet being obliterated, at the cost of losing a hero permanently (although the death star was also permanently gone) and losing a bunch of money (but that's set against a death star and a crapton of wasted construction time).

I hate those sort of mechanics, where no strategy or conventional advantage can make a difference because the ability is unstoppable.



 

I'm willing to pass judgement on this one until I see the costs involved.

I imagine that the martyr ability, along with the other "auto-win" abilities will require super-rare resources, resources that you might well either not have, or need to use for something else equally game-changing.  That would fit with their apparent goals this time around. 

 

Also, wouldn't it be just sad, if you were the only one in  the galaxy who had said super-rare resource?

 

Well it does, it costs u a citizen, which u will only get a few per game...

on Mar 18, 2017

 

Which is another consideration, how many of your 20-25 citizens do you want to sacrifice for a one-time thing like this?  Better return if you give your commander a better fleet so they can beat them conventionally (multiple times).   

These abilities may win you a battle, but if you can't beat the rest of the enemy empire, you are just kicking and screaming on the way to the gallows.

on Mar 18, 2017

I'm going to wait until this is out, then probably bag it in a sale. Guarantee there will be bugs and design problems - especially as this is rewrite of the original (and given GC III's shaky start).

 

For example RE: Martyrs. I know you sacrifice a citizen, but why not attach them to a single scout ship, aim it at the biggest fleet the enemy has, then send in your own armada? 

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