Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
Or will the kooks drive them to become another Whig party?
Published on January 29, 2005 By Draginol In Politics

Glenn Reynolds had a very interesting discussion with regards to how the Democrats should deal with their kooks:

You rightly point out that we liberals must do our best to shout down, disassociate ourselves, do everything we can to make ourselves no longer the party of Michael Moore, Howard Zinn, Noam Chomsky, et al.

And as you noted, the Right does do a better job of quieting its 'idiotarians'. The only problem is, they essentially do it with the "bribes and promises" approach. Jerry Falwell, even when muzzled, knows that to some degree he and the people he represents will get a hearing from the White House and congress, the American seats of power.

On the left, we are a minority in all branches of government. How can we cast off the extremists if we have nothing to offer to placate them, nothing to drive them away with? It makes it harder to easily dismiss them, and as we get drawn into a serious debate with them (which we'd handily win), the Republicans will simply say, "Look, the Democrats can't even stop their circular firing squad, how can they run the country?" and we'll lose more seats in Congress.

I'm with the College Dems at my school, and the reactionary extremism is so thick you could cut it with a knife. What's the solution for people like me? What *can* we do? Casting out the extremists seems an awful lot like putting salt on a bird's tail.

You've got a big pulpit. Help show us Dems how to make a party that's sane, but doesn't believe that America is a Christian nation or homosexuality is a sin or that all the poor are poor because they deserve it.

Well, I don't believe any of those three things -- I don't even think this is a "pulpit!" -- but I confess that I don't know how to save the Dems. I think that the "silent majority" -- those genuine moderate Democrats/Liberals that I keep hearing about, but don't hear a lot from on the national stage -- needs to realize the damage that the kooks do -- as the Republicans figured out -- and quit regarding extremism as evidence of "commitment" or "passion." I tried to sketch something like that alternate approach here, but though it's not hard to imagine, I think it would be hard for the Democrats to do.

I do think, though, that many people (me included) would cheer the Democrats for trying to make those changes, and while there might be a little bit of sniping from Republicans, that sniping would actually help the Democrats by calling attention to what was going on.

The alternative is for the Democratic party to get smaller as it gets angrier, and angrier as it gets smaller, until it just doesn't matter anymore. At some point the Republican Party will then likely split into a social-conservative wing and a libertarian wing, and I can join the latter, I guess. I'm not ready to call the Democrats the new Whigs, but it's not impossible for me to imagine.

The question is, will the Democrats be willing to do to Ted Kennedy, for his remarks on the war, what Republicans did to Trent Lott, for his remarks on Strom Thurmond and the 1948 election?

 

I agree. The Democrats seem to have learned nothing from the election. Its outspoken elements seem loonier and loonier and that drives more people to become Republicans.  At some point, the Republican party will end up splitting up and you'll have the Social Conservative party and a Libertarian Republican party or something.  I too would be in the latter.


Comments (Page 2)
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on Jan 30, 2005

Political contributions != gradeschool leveling insulting blogs aimed at the opposite party. Nice try though. Google is for Charlatans

you really are loony!  Google is for charlatans?  Hello, jturnass for ork!

on Jan 30, 2005
The difference between the Republican kooks and Democratic kooks is following. As kooky as Pat Robertson is, he brings a following. To say the right placated their kooks by giving their voice to the highest levels is just another way to say they have made them their mainstream. After all, if they have a voice with the President, they have a voice in the highest levels of our government. The Republicans have done a good job a showing the kooks on the left are out of the mainstream of America, but in the mainstream of the Democratic party. The right has their other kooks out there that are attack dogs that the Republicans leave alone because they can be an embarrassment to Democrats. Coulter, Hannity and Limbaugh have a daily pulpit.
on Jan 30, 2005
Reply #14 By: JTurnas - 1/30/2005 1:18:01 PM
I'll write whatever I want to write. If people are going to make purchasing decisions based on the political views of its CEO then I don't want them as customers.


Political views are one thing, calling liberals names, patronizing and insulting them is another. Let me be the first *today* to tell you to grow up.


Then let me be the first to tell you to take a hike unless you have something meaningful to add. If not shut up.
on Jan 30, 2005
Political views are one thing, calling liberals names, patronizing and insulting them is another. Let me be the first *today* to tell you to grow up. Once a company begins selective arbitration of who they want as customers, its only a matter of time before that company enters a decline. I'll start the clock on Stardock right now, and lets see where you are in 24 months. Based on what i've read in your blogs, you are a classic INTJ personality and i've yet to see INTJ-CEO run a company beyond the initial growth phase successfully, they usually self destruct the company when progressing from the early stages to the middle stages.


Stardock seems to be doing well. But you're the expert at how to be a good CEO, right?
on Jan 30, 2005
What a laugh. Blog newbie JTurnas shows up years into JoeUser's existence to predict Stardock's decline. Stardock's been around what? 10 to 15 years? It gets bigger and more successful each year. I think JTurnas should keep his day job, whatever that is.
on Jan 30, 2005

Political views are one thing, calling liberals names, patronizing and insulting them is another. Let me be the first *today* to tell you to grow up. Once a company begins selective arbitration of who they want as customers, its only a matter of time before that company enters a decline. I'll start the clock on Stardock right now, and lets see where you are in 24 months. Based on what i've read in your blogs, you are a classic INTJ personality and i've yet to see INTJ-CEO run a company beyond the initial growth phase successfully, they usually self destruct the company when progressing from the early stages to the middle stages.

http://keirsey.com/personality/ntij.html


http://www.smalldog.com/PHPbb/viewforum.php?f=1

on Jan 30, 2005

The difference between the Republican kooks and Democratic kooks is following. As kooky as Pat Robertson is, he brings a following. To say the right placated their kooks by giving their voice to the highest levels is just another way to say they have made them their mainstream. After all, if they have a voice with the President, they have a voice in the highest levels of our government. The Republicans have done a good job a showing the kooks on the left are out of the mainstream of America, but in the mainstream of the Democratic party. The right has their other kooks out there that are attack dogs that the Republicans leave alone because they can be an embarrassment to Democrats. Coulter, Hannity and Limbaugh have a daily pulpit.


Wrong.

on Jan 30, 2005

The difference between the Republican kooks and Democratic kooks is following. As kooky as Pat Robertson is, he brings a following. To say the right placated their kooks by giving their voice to the highest levels is just another way to say they have made them their mainstream. After all, if they have a voice with the President, they have a voice in the highest levels of our government. The Republicans have done a good job a showing the kooks on the left are out of the mainstream of America, but in the mainstream of the Democratic party. The right has their other kooks out there that are attack dogs that the Republicans leave alone because they can be an embarrassment to Democrats. Coulter, Hannity and Limbaugh have a daily pulpit.


Wrong.

on Jan 30, 2005
The difference between the Republican kooks and Democratic kooks is following.


We have blood in our veins and real live guts... whereas most dems{not you njforever or you myrr} are gutless and divisionary.
on Jan 30, 2005
not you njforever or you myrr


Thanks for the exemption And also thanks for saying I'm one of the people who are the future of the Democratic party.
on Jan 30, 2005

Jturnas:

. Where to begin.  If you weren't so new to the site, you would know that many of us have taken the Keirsey test.

This is what I got: http://keirsey.com/personality/ntej.html

I certainly hope your job doesn't involve pschoanalysing people because you were dead wrong. I'm a solid eNTj.

Secondly, your prediction of doom and gloom might have a bit more credibility if you had made this argument at the beginning of this site. 

This is Stardock's 13th year of business. We're a little bit out of the "initial start-up phase" of the company.  In short, you really seem to not know what you're talking about.  But even if you did, you miss the point - even if having strong political beliefs did affect the company's bottom line, I wouldn't care. The company is a means to an end. It's not the end unto itself. 

on Jan 30, 2005
Wrong.


Wow, that's a good argument backed up by solid debating. So I'll just say something in response. Whatever.
on Jan 30, 2005

Whoman: I think one difference is that the Democrats imbrace their more extreme elements.  Ann Coulter doesn't sit next to George Bush at the Republican Convention like Michael Moore sat with Jimmy Carter at the Democratic equivalent.

And the extremist elements have a stronger hold on the Democrats.  Look at Ted Kennedy. Have you read the transcripts of some of his speeches? He sounds like a raving lunatic. A paranoid raving lunatic at that. 

What the Democrats need are people like Stevendalous and Jebblackstar and others like them.  People who put forth coherent positions and arguments that aren't based on paranoid fantasy or defeatism.

on Jan 30, 2005
Back to the point of Drag's post -

Gosh, I like Joe Lieberman. What a decent, straight-shooting human being. I've just listened to his comments about the Iraqi election on Hannity & Colmes and my admiration for him, already immense, has just grown larger still. The contrast between him and Ted Kennedy is so stark. The Dems greatest opportunity lies in embracing people like Lieberman - I would be very, very tempted to vote for him if he were to run in 2008.

I have no fear of sharing those feelings, since the odds of the party doing anything close to that are almost nil. Harry Reid has apparently taken it as his battle plan to simply oppose Republicans, no matter what, rather than help his party settle on a set of principles that people can rally behind, and it looks like the Dems are likely to pick Dean as their party chairman. The pendulum will, without question, eventually swing back, but at this rate it's going to be a long, long time coming.

Cheers,
Daiwa
on Jan 31, 2005

Wow, that's a good argument backed up by solid debating. So I'll just say something in response. Whatever.

Idiocy does not need debate, just the statement of fact.

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