MacOS Panther vs. Windows XP: A response

If you're going to do a platform comparison, compare platforms, not bundling

Published on November 2, 2003 By Draginol In Personal Computing

ActiveWin has an article that compares MacOS X to Windows XP. There are a lot of good points in the article and a lot of his findings are based on pretty solid and reasonable analysis.

But I take issue with an underlying "ground rule" with a lot of these comparisons -- he is comparing what comes with Windows XP with what comes with MacOS X. Considering that a Mac machine costs a great deal more than a comparable Windows machine, I think a more fair comparison is to look at what you can get for both as a platform. Especially since any OEM can always bundle whatever they want to with the machine.

Below are the points he considers to be in favor of the Mac. Most of these I agree with but I'll comment below in red.

Dialogue boxes: In windows you get things like Yes, No and Cancel - on a Mac you get Don’t Save, Cancel and Save – logical text information that is an improvement over Windows. This is just one really plain example, I could literally list loads. Open Recent dialogues easier to read than Windows

Absolutely agree here. One of the first things I noticed about MacOS X vs. Windows was the bits of polish like this that make is a better experience.

Drag and Drop: Far, far better in OS X over Windows. Things like dragging files to a Printer Icon to print, dragging images from the web to the desktop, drag folders to e-mail, drag a picture or photo to you desktop picture control panel sets it up as the desktop background, dragging pictures to your login icon sets that as your login picture. You can also drag reorder items in any Window toolbar or sidebar.

This isn't really a fair comparison. First, drag and drop on Windows XP is pretty thorough. But more to the point, Windows, because it is based on a 2 button mouse, does a lot more with right click menus. I'd still give the edge to the Mac though.

Exposé – Nothing more needs to be said

Agreed.

Navigating the file system: A Mac does in 3 views what Microsoft does in 5.

Yes and no. For one thing, you can't just type in a path into some URL-like field in Finder. I find that very annoying and limiting. Not having the ability to simply type into finder where you want to go is a major restriction IMO.

Colour labelling: excellent way of creating user defined groupings of items.
Icons: Nothing Windows has right now can touch the specs of 128x128 pixels and 8-bit transparency. You can also change icons really easily in OS X compared to Windows.

Wrong wrong wrong. First off, for the price of a Mac I think one can safely say you can pick up Object Desktop. Object Desktop has been giving Windows (and OS/2 before that) features long before they showed up on the Mac. First with Zooming icons on mouse over? Object Desktop. First with Alpha blended shadows under windows? Object Desktop.

And I can replace everything on my system with 128x128 icons/objects right now. First, most modern icon packages come with 128x128 icons and have for a long while. And secondly, ObjectDock and yZ Dock have helped popularize 128x128 (and larger) PNG files that you can download and use on programs like DesktopX, ObjectDock, or IconPackager. All of which is either part of Object Desktop or in the case of ObjectDock, freeware.

The price difference between the mid range Mac and a high range PC is about $600 in favor of the PC and the PC includes a lot more software (such as Office, DVD authoring tools, etc.) that aren't being considered. But on top of that, $600 can buy you a lot more after market software too. Object Desktop is $50 for the whole thing and it addresses a good chunk of the issues Byron speaks of.

Fonts: Better quality and quantity of fonts, various ways of previewing fonts, including the excellent and new Font Book. Overall a better Font Management now that Windows too. Better Anti-Aliasing of fonts.

Agreed.

Find and Search: Massively better in OS X than Windows. As soon as you start to type OS X starts searching. Sherlock is there to let you search the internet for Pictures, Stock and more.

Agreed.

Keyboard: Makes better use of Keyboard shortcuts, navigating the file system by the keyboard, application and document switching via the keyboard (Exposé), shutting down via a keyboard and more.

Once again, because a Windows system is less expensive, inexpensive extensions should be part of this comparison. Object Desktop, once again eliminates this advantage and then some. Keyboard LaunchPad not only allows you to assign hot keys to any program or website but can even be assigned to control parts of individual programs and apply saved clipboards automatically.

Installing Applications: You may think this is a strange one, but in my view, dragging a Mac OS X Package (applications behave like folders) to the applications folder is a much easier install than Microsoft offers us in Windows. Multiple versions of the same program can be kept on the computer this way, uninstall is simply a case of dragging the folder to the trash. Neither Windows nor OS X is perfect.

I don't think this is that clear cut. Most Windows programs behave as he describes. They just simply include a "install wizard" to walk the user through the process.

Video editing: iMovie ships with OS X and works very well with improved editors, filters, audio editing, and transitions

And for the amount of money difference in cost, you can purchase some pretty impressive video editing packages on Windows. And as a Mac user myself, I can tell you that you need pretty good hardware for iMovie to be useful. For one thing, in 10.2 (I haven't tried this with 10.3) some actions with video files had to be done as the foreground app. iMovie would pause the action when it wasn't the active program which makes having a high end (read: expensive) machine key.

DVD Playback: OS X comes with a DVD player that plays the video without having to have a third parties software installed to run it, unlike Windows.

So?? What is this? Bundle wars?

Let's recap: In my view, the minimum spec'd Mac I'd purchase today is the 1.8 Ghz PowerMac G5 with 512MB of RAM (which I'd bump to 1 gig). Add a 17 inch flat panel and your price is $3,348.00. This right from the Mac store.

Then I go to the Dell store. Without even really working much to cut prices, a 3Ghz Dell machine with a gig of RAM and 21 inch flat panel display with a ton of software bundles is $2,700 (like Office for example which I'd have to add on to the price to the Mac).

My ThinkPad T40 comes with WinDVD. Does Byron think that the Mac's DVD player remotely compares to WinDVD in features?

DVD creation: iDVD is bundled with all Macs that ship with Super Drives. Windows Movie Maker requires additional software if you want to burn DVD’s

See above.

E-mail: Mail is a much better free mail program than Outlook Express, especially for Junk Mail.

Agreed except my $2700 Dell with Office 2003 comes with full Outlook which is as good at junk blocking. But that's irrelevant anyway because I can use free programs like SpamPal for junk mail.

Calendar: iCal comes free with OS X and can be synced with Palm or iPod devices. Windows has no free Calendar program.

How can you call iCal "free"? It's figured into the price of the Mac. Outlook 2003 comes with a similar scheduling program.

Free developer tools: Apple offers a more complete set of free developer tools than Microsoft does for Windows XP.

Is he suggesting there aren't free developer tools for Windows? I'll concede that developer tools should come with the OS though.

Photos: iPhoto is far better at managing photos you have on your computer than Windows.

Again, this is bundle wars.

Voice recognition: This has been around on the Mac since OS 7 and is built into the OS – if you want it in Windows, you need to buy Works or Office.

Voice recognition is not something that is very practical yet on either Mac or PC. And voice recognition on the PC - Dragon Speak Easy, IBM ViaVoice are both excellent if you need it.

Speech Synthesis – OS X supports system wide voice synthesis and has various voices to choose from. OS X also has Talking Dialogues.

See above.

Screen capture: 6 different types of screen grab shortcuts are available.

Print screen! In fact, I can't believe that he mentions this because when trying to take screenshots on the Mac I found this infuriatingly annoying. On Windows, I can hit Ctrl-Printscreen to take a screenshot of a Windows or just Print Screen for the whole desktop and paste right into Front Page, Word, etc. Maybe there's a trick I don't know of on the Mac but I find it much more cumbersome to get a screenshot on the Mac. And I take a lot of screenshots, people like me are the target market for that bullet point.

Scripting: Improved in OS X for workflow automation.

I'm not experienced enough here to comment.

CD-R: Advanced options are far better in OS X. Add icons to CD’s you burn.
Sticky Notes: Free and built into the OS

Bundling Bundling Bundling. For a $600 premium it should come with more stuff out of the box.

Password Management: System wide password management through Keychain

I haven't used this enough to comment.

Spell-check: Excellent system wide spell checking – While posting in a forum on the Internet, I can have it check my spellings on the fly.

Agreed.

Crashes: So far I haven’t had one crash or needed a reboot (other than updates) with OS X – something that can’t be said of Windows XP.

Oh come now. Crashing on either is a non-issue. Windows XP is just as solid as MacOS. I've had forced reboots with both on occasion but it's not statistically significant.

No Viruses: This is a bitter point for a lot of Windows users, who usually then say it is because OS X has fewer users. Fact is – it is far more secure.

No, it's not a "fact", it's a matter of virus writers focusing on the market with 25 times more users. This could just as easily be said about OS/2. Is OS/2 more "secure"? It doesn't even have security for it. But I've never seen a OS/2 virus or Worm and yet REXX on OS/2 allows the potential to create worms the likes no one has ever imagined. But none have happened?

My magic rock here prevents earth quakes from occurring in Michigan. As proof I can show that there have been no earth quakes here. Would you like to buy my rock? $3348.

As soon as I get a chance, I'd like to do a video demo of both. Does anyone know of a freeware screen video capture program along the lines of CamStudio for Windows but for the Mac?

Anyway, I don't want it to sound like I'm bashing the Mac. I consider myself a realist on OS wars these days having been an OS warrior during the OS/2 era. But I don't like strawman arguments. And comparing what comes bundled with the OS is just that. Not only that, but it only encourages business practices that, in the long term, harm consumers. If OS vendors are to be judged purely on what they happen to bundle with the OS, you're going to get more and more bloated OSes with fewer and fewer healthy third parties to write software. And it's third parties that help drive innovation in technology.

Comments (Page 3)

zargon

on Nov 04, 2003

oops....OpenOffice.Org

kthxbye

on Nov 04, 2003

ARGH. Hit some stupid key... response goes away. *sigh*

Ah well. Anyway, if I remember correctly, the entire article was based off of the thought that after-purchase software didn't exist. Well, to be more polite, it was merely a comparison of the software that was already with the computer while it was still in the box.

That places OOo out of consideration at least.
Granted, both Office and Appleworks are more than enough for the average home user - but IMHO, if you're going to include the two packages in the comparison as well, over-all MS Office is going to come out on top of Appleworks. But then, they're also two totally different software packages again. Appleworks is more along the lines of MS Works than MS Office. They target two totally different groups. (Yeah, I Office is overkill for most home users.)

I wouldn't mind seeing computer makers bundling OOo though - even if it's not at the level of Office - it's well beyond MS Works at least. (Yeah, I run it. I've used all three, and still run Office XP and OOo 1.1. OOo rubs me the wrong way for some reason, but I still use it, and recognize it for a fine product with potential!

)

Draginol

on Nov 04, 2003

A more fair comparison should be what you get when you open that box from Dell vs. what you open your box from Apple.

Gamefreak99

on Nov 05, 2003

But even then its not all that fair of a comparison. It's like comparing apples and oranges. Neither OS utilizes the resources available to it in the same way and both are completly different and built off of different things. One OS could do things a certain way to be faster while the other takes the "the user wants more and by George we'll give him more" route. I'm not only talking program wise but how the auctualy OS is built coding wise.

kthxbye

on Nov 06, 2003

"A more fair comparison should be what you get when you open that box from Dell vs. what you open your box from Apple." - Draginol

"But even then its not all that fair of a comparison. It's like comparing apples and oranges. Neither OS utilizes the resources available to it in the same way and both are completly different and built off of different things." - Gamefreak99

Actually, I have to agree with Draginol with this. The two things, the Apple and the Dell may be different /means/ - but they are both means which are used to arrive at the SAME END. That they choose to do it in different ways, or with different philosophies does not change the fact that they both are created, and used, for the exact same purposes.

You might as well say that comparing driving to the store in your car or taking the bus isn't a fair comparison.

Backtothemac

on Nov 06, 2003

Ok, I being a user of both can see some of the points that you make in the article. However, you cannot compare the perfomance of the 1.8G5 and a 3GHZ PIV. There is no comparison. You are comparing Apples and Oranges. Compare the OS to the OS. OS X.3 is 129. Windows XP Home is what? $199, pro is $299?

Don't compare hardware to hardware, because that is one that will be argued forever. My 2.6HT PIV is about as fast as my 1.25GHZ G4. The G4 was less expensive than the Dell. Much less. Plus, I think you miss the point that Spring loaded folders, and the ability to move an Applications folder after installing it without having to reinstall, or edit the hell out of the registry is the point that was being made about drag and drop.

John T. Folden

on Nov 09, 2003

One quick comment... You can hit Shift-Apple-G in any Finder window and type in a url to exactly where you want to go...

...and I don't frequent the Dell.com site much but do they not offer much in the way of system details? They don't seem to list details like PCI vs PCI-X, FireWire ports, Serial ATA options, etc...

Draginol

on Nov 09, 2003

BacktotheMac: Sorry but...bullshit about the G4 costing less than the Dell. I can get a 2.6Ghz Dell right now a lot cheaper than a 1.25 Ghz Dell. I'm looking at the Apple store right now. It's not even close. And you still end up having to buy Office and other software.

When I purchase a computer I'm not purchasing it as a decoration for my house. I have things I want to do with it. And for most people that means using software.

Therefore, one should be comparing what they get out of the box with the Dell and the Mac. OS vs. OS debates that fall into bundling comparisons is silly because Apple HAS to bundle more with the OS. Microsoft doesn't. In fact, Microsoft SHOULDN'T even be bundling as much as they do now. Apple's basically given up on third party support. Microsoft counts on it.

Edward

on Nov 15, 2003

Um, open Terminal.app... type ftp

Also, if you don't like to use scary terminals... go to http://www.versiontracker.com and search for ftp... 58 matches, now all aren't ftp clients per se, however many are, a few of them are even freeware.

I use only Mac and Linux now because plainly I'm sick of using a clunky OS. OS X is sweet, and I still get to do my UNIX boffining.

The original article was a comparison of the OS, what you do with your cash or how many third party apps are out there. Leave it be.

Steve

on Nov 18, 2003

I suggest that anyone who wants to look at the Mac OS X versus Windows XP issue visits this website: http://www.xvsxp.com/

I would say a couple things about the issue, like the fact that FTP is built into the finder, or that you really can't consider things like iCal or iChat as "bundling" because they are integrated into the OS. They are part of the OS. You just have to open their applications to use the functionality. But I don't really have the time. Likewise I would say something about the fact that macs are apparently $600 more expensive than an comparative Dell... but I can't find a decent technical specifications page at the Dell website to compare to the specification pages that apple offers.

webmastah87

on Nov 24, 2003

yo, um, people hafta start arguments huh? i love XP bbecause you can design it the way you like it with windowblinds and logon studio and other programs like that. i give all credit to stardock for doing that. stardock, as i believe, makes windows number one. i also like mac. i love the "dock" it is a great idea, but you can have it in XP too! i dont know ppl, i havent experimented with linuz yet because i havent had a chance but i still think that XP is the best.

bobh

on Dec 01, 2003

The bottom line with these silly OS discussions is that it depends on what you are trying to do. Each system will offer advantages and disadvantages depending on the software and hardware combinations you need to run. And both XP and X have infuriating sides to them but as a power user, Apple is really alienating me with this last upgrade.

Why should I have to throw all of the vital and very expensive hardware that worked fine in 10.2 in the trash just because I upgraded to 10.3? It is simply irresponsible. It seems more and more that Apple is all candy and no meat, at least for power users. Has anyone tried to navigate the finder in Panther with a couple of million files and 7 or 8 hard drives? It is not fun. And I'm a staunch Mac supporter. Get with it Apple!

oliver kurlvink

on Dec 02, 2003

try rbrowserlite as a free ftp client. take a look at versiontracker.com for many other free ftp clients. and every mac comes with ftp and (panther) ncftp.

Luther

on Dec 02, 2003

I have to say YOU TALKED ABOUT THE SOFTWARE NOT the actual operating system. I have used Linux SuSe, Linux Mandrake, Mac OS 6 - 10 and windows 3.1 - XP.

Macs are more expensive as of the GREAT technical architetchure of the hardware, Come on 3Ghz Intel Pentium verse the G5 dual 64-bit prossecors, the mac would hammer it.

Also may I say that XP is a pain in the rear for customizing.

I have all the software made by stardock which doesnt load automatically at start-up and kills off system resources.

Also may i state that mac OS X comes with hunners of software and if thats not enough go along to their website and see how many free applications there is for the mac.

The reason the Mac doesn't have "right clicking" is because it doesn't require it.

Just to let you know that Dell are the worst hardware and OEM company in the world.(cases are alright suppose)

Also you state the price of Computer systems and not the OPERATING SYSTEM.

Also LOOK OUT FOR OPEN SOURCE Programs you wally don't give all yer money to Microsoft.
When you by a Computer you by it for the hardware not software as there is so many free programs on the net.(All it takes is for YOU to use yer brain, ooops sorry, I forgot you don't have one do you).

£500 for MS Office come on, you must be joking.
MS picture it! again you buy from microsoft.
Since YOU insist on bringing up their is FREE THIRD PARTY screenshot applications you idiot.

The installation of software on a mac is so simple i don't need a install wizzard.

hello donkey, just remember which computer system comes with FIREWIRE as STANDARD, as well as DVD-Writer.

May i just Say that you must be a rubbish user if yeh crash Mac OS, I've used Mac Os for ten years and only once had a crash and thats when i started using it. If i had a penny for every time windows xp crashed, i'd be a millionaire.

PS. MAC OS X has a security system better than Fort Knox. (as well as people not entirely knowing how to.)
Also you can get into the registry (Best and easiest thing to hack, for example Start, Run, regedit. BINGO)

NEXT TIME EVALUATE THE O P E R A T I N G S Y S T E M NOT the software, hardware which comes with OEM manufacturers.

Admit it you work for Microsoft.

Luther

on Dec 02, 2003

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