Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
The axioms of liberals and conservatives
Published on February 11, 2004 By Draginol In Politics

Democrats are talking about "Two Americas" in which they crudely separate Americans into two categories: The noble have-nots and the corrupt haves. Calling such a description an oversimplification would be charitable.

Republicans and Democrats talk past each other because they, fundamentally, don't understand each other.  There is no "compromise" really possible because they approach their positions from completely alien points of view.  When someone tries to provide a compromise, they are disdained by both because neither party will be satisfied with any compromise.  It's not like liberals are a 10 and conservatives a 1.  It's more like Liberals are a 10 and Conservatives are Z. What is half way between 10 and Z?

To use my own over simplification, let me illustrate the basic difference between American liberals and American conservatives on the role of the federal government.

Conservatives see the federal government as essentially a huge neighborhood association.  The federal government is there to provide services that are impossible or impractical for individuals to provide for themselves or can't be provided by a company.  The list of things that fit that criteria is very very small.  Defense. Roads. Police. Fire Departments...Um...Police..

And so in the conservative view we all help contribute to paying for these services in the form of taxes. Conservatives don't like the idea that different people have to pay different amounts for the same service.  After all, imagine getting your cable bill and being charged 20X as much as your neighbor simply because you make more money.  Because conservatives see the government as an association of citizens, they tend to be unsympathetic to suggestions of having it into the business of doing things that people should doing for themselves.  A neighborhood association will pay for the streets to be plowed in the winter but not for someone to shovel everyone's walkways. If someone doesn't want to shovel snow, they shouldn't buy a house with a big walkway.

Liberals, by contrast, see the federal government as the guaranteer of social justice. The federal government is there to provide services to the people that benefit all citizens. This is a critical difference. Services that benefit everyone versus services that are impossible for individuals/corporations to provide. A liberal would argue that the neighborhood association analogy is flawed because it makes the assumption that everyone moved into a given neighborhood on remotely equal grounds. The federal government, precisely because it isn't driven by profit or religious ideology, is best positioned to provide service that benefit everyone. Sure, everyone will pay a bit more in taxes, particularly the wealthiest but so what? Realistically after a certain income level additional income is fairly meaningless. That extra income can be distributed to the less fortunate of society to provide services to all people.

It's because of these radically different views that the two can't really be compromised.  Bush, for instance, can't satisfy either by trying to go half way.  His prescription healthcare plan is a perfect example. A conservative says "The government's job is not to provide pills for anyone at all. That's not its job. Caring for the elderly should be done by families and having the government assume jobs best suited to families inevitably weakens families. The rise of the single parent house hold goes hand in hand with the great society programs of the 60s which has been harmful to all of society.  Liberal programs may have good intentions but result in bad results."  And so Bush's prescription plan for the elderly alienates conservatives.  By contrast, it fails to satisfy liberals because it's a half-measure. Bush brings in the insurance companies into his plan, the very people that liberals dislike in the first place. A liberal would say "You either believe that prescription drugs for the elderly is something the government should take care of or you don't."  Programs like this can't be half-baked. It's like trying to make a car (to satisfy car lovers) without an engine (to satisfy environmentalists).

This is one reason I think Bush is vulnerable this year. He has alienated the base of conservatives who feel that the federal government is already too involved in taking care of individual citizens rather than providing services that no individual can provide for themselves. But in the process he's befriended few liberals who see his efforts as clumsy cynical attempts to get some half-baked program through.

It really comes down to axioms. A conservative asks "Is this something that individuals or companies could do for themselves? If yes then forget it." A liberal says "Is this something that will benefit all individuals in our society? If yes, then do it."  There is no half-way because they are coming from completely different perspectives.

 


Comments (Page 1)
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on Feb 11, 2004
I don't know if you read my comment or not, but you definitely said the same thing that I did. I like your analogies, they fit.
on Feb 11, 2004
Thanks.  And the thing is, neither one is "wrong". But they are totally incompatible with each other. The nation is split roughly evenly between both world views.
on Feb 11, 2004
Ironically, I have alway said that this is pretty much why you can't have a strong independent party. Each independent believes so strongly on such a variety of different "sets" of issues that you can't get enough independents to agree on any one "set" of issues. I'm generally closer to the libertarian way of thinking than either conservative or liberal. Past that, I fall closer to the conversative side, which is how I generally vote since voting libertarian is like throwing your vote away.

VES
on Feb 12, 2004

Sounds like me. I'm much the same way.

I'm pro-choice for example. But anti-Roe vs. Wade.  I don't see judges having the right to outlaw something on such shaky ground. Let the people decide what they want and vote in representatives based on that.

on Feb 12, 2004
While I understand your take on that Brad, our view on judicial matters differ. That's probably because I went to law school, but ended up hating the practice, but I myself have always thought the courts were there to protect the rights of the minority.

Cheers
on Feb 12, 2004
Courts are there to abjudicate legal matters, to apply the law equally, regardless of whether they are minority or majority members. Supposedly that is why justice is "blind".

VES
on Feb 12, 2004
Ahh, but the majority rarely brings a case before the courts, by which I mean the appelate and supreme courts.
on Feb 12, 2004
That doesn't change the court's purpose.

VES
on Feb 12, 2004
Nice post. Thanks for the summary of American political ideals.

What America really needs is a third party to balance debates between the two. You may not be able to compare 10 with Z, but you can compare ten with 0 and then O with Z.

Some third party would then force the other parties to argue on their beliefs not just argue against the other persons. A much tougher thing to do but much fairer.

Paul.
on Feb 12, 2004
For once, I agree totally with your post. AS all have to live together, can we just afford to talk with people with the same opinion?
on Feb 12, 2004
This is a good article! And I agree, there is no doubt that the differences are there and always will be.
There are also right brained people and left brained and the lucky ones that use both sides.
And there will always be differences between men and women. We think differently and we both know it. But somehow, we find a way to come together.
on Feb 12, 2004
My friend has a saying,

"Conservatives are heartless, but liberals are brainless."

While I don't hold to that statement in all it's harshness, I think it crudely illustrates the right brain / left brain concept (or thinkers vs. feelers). There is certainly a communication gap between the two. And no, from my point of view, this is not meant to imply that I think all conservatives are strict thinkers, and all liberals are strict feelers. But sometimes it's interesting to watch a person's communicate style to see whether they say "I think", "I believe" or "I feel" as a preface to a statement.

VES
on Feb 12, 2004
One question: What do we do about it?
on Feb 12, 2004
There's nothing to do. These views are not reconcilable. So we'll do what we always have done -- muddle through.
on Feb 13, 2004
Personally here's my opinion, I think liberals and conservatives can be generalized very easily. Liberals think with their heart while Conservatives use their brain. I'm not saying one is better then the other because they are neccasary and without them the government would lose all unison. A flaw about the way democrats feel is that in most circumstances they are unable to view world issues (such as the war in Iraq) for the positve long term effects. All i keep hearing on the almost totally liberal bias T.V. stations are "The war was pointless because we havent found any weapons of mass destruction." In my mind we have found one of the biggest weapons and that was saddam hussien. In addition, that was only one of the reasons for this war. He killed 2 million on his own people and letting his country rot and dooming it as a 3rd world country forever. We could have always gone along and done what france said so they didnt veto any U.N. support and "Written a resolution" even though hes broken nearly 18. It just a continueing game of cat and mouse. I've also been hearing "well we didnt wait long enough" which is propostorous, in the manner that we waited 10 years since they tried to take over Kuwait. The T.V. shows people complaining that we're there and that we should leave along with many americans. First off if we left it would go back to how it was to the strongest ruler and that would be the beginning of a whole new power, second they dont even know what freedom is yet and have barley touched it. Now they have their own radio, T.V. , buisnesses, women are working, better school systems, and lower crime will be soon to come. So with all of this mabey 50 years from now we can look at Iraq as a second world country or mabey 100 if we have enough countries like france "Lets loan the U.S. money to rebuild Iraq"...Bastards. This is what im talking about as the long term economic investment. Iraw will become a great trading partner with the U.S. down the road and we could very well have another ally, vs. if we had followed the road Al Gore would have taken if he was elected and wait until were all dead then blame it on gun countrol or abortion because thats how much since that man makes. Then the other thing i hear is "Bush is creating low unemployment, a bad economy, and polution problems" Now bush lowered polution regulations to create jobs which was very successful, The dow closed at nearly a 5 year high, and unemployment is low. Also Bush gave 3 BILLION dollars to help research hydrogen vehicles which will clear all the polution problems of fossil fuels for vehicles. Bottom line and my main point Bush is doing a great job and people who think otherwise are closed minded, ignorant, or need to be slapped.
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