Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
John Stossel report exposes myths about who gives what
Published on November 30, 2006 By Draginol In Current Events

This past week's 20/20 explores some of the myths of who gives and who doesn't in America and in the world.  It was a fascinating look at the giving habits of different segments of society.

A few points that were brought up:

  • The working poor give the most (as a % of income)
  • The non-working poor (welfare people) give the least, even as a %)
  • Rich people give more (as a %) than middle class people.
  • Conservatives give a lot more than liberals
  • Americans give 7 times more to charity than Germans
  • Americans give 14 times more to charity than Italians
  • The US government gives less as a % of its income than other countries but more when considering the size of the US government as a % of GDP (in other words, its citizens do the giving instead).
  • Americans gave away nearly $300 billion last year
  • Giving to charity and helping others improves the health of the giver according to studies
  • 28 of the 29 most charitable states as a % of income are red states.

One of the most interesting experiments they ran was a Salvation Army charity drop in front of the busiest places in town in San Francisco CA  vs. Sioux Falls, South Dakota.  In San Fran, it was in front of the Macy's. In Sioux Falls it was in front of the Walmart.

At the end of the experiment, the Salvation Army had collected twice as much from their location in Sioux Falls than the one in San Francisco despite the per capita income in San Fran being twice as much and the number of people who were near the Salvation Army spot significantly higher as well.

Other interesting research included a survey that showed that the more socialist the responder to the survey, they less they tended to give voluntarily. The people who want higher taxes tended to give less themselves.

It was a really fascinating episode.  The results weren't terribly surprising over all.


Comments (Page 1)
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on Dec 01, 2006
I watched it and thought it was pretty interesting! I was surprise at how indepth the show was and that made it very informatiive!

I'm not surprise the ones who make less give more (i.e. working people)

Actually, from what I understood, the Rich who did give more, were those who worked for their money and got wealthy. The ones who just live off of the money made by their parents, are the most selfish!
on Dec 01, 2006

What got me was the AP headline about this... It basically stated that the fact that the rich can give more is evidence of how unfair our system is.  In other words, nothing to read there folks, go about your business.

It doesn't suprise me at all that conservative areas give more to charity than liberal areas.  When I have been on disaster scenes around the country, we were always treated better in the conservative areas.  People in conservative areas seemed to be glad we were there, but just long enough to get them the help they needed, liberal areas expected us to do everything for them... and were more than willing to let us know they were better than us.

 

on Dec 01, 2006

I have seen other studies similar to this one.  If you think about it, it makes sense.  Liberals expect the government to do everything, so they dont give.  Conservatives do not want the government to do everything, so they give to show that it is not necessary.

I would be curious to see which of the Blue states made the top 29.

on Dec 01, 2006
Most importantly, how much do you give Brad?

My wife and I average $10,000-$15,000+ per year in charitable donations, and we are liberal. But I have this nagging suspicion our donation level far exceeds yours. No offense but I don't think anyone should be critiquing anyone elses generosity unless they sit on a pretty high pulpit themselves. We donate because we feel the lower, low-middle class in this country get the shaft, yet support the bulk of the nation in workforce and revenue.
on Dec 01, 2006
Then Good On Ya Giff!! I'm glad you do put your money where your rhetoric is. No one is saying the no liberals ever donate to their causes, but apparently not as many give as much as one would expect.
on Dec 01, 2006
We donate because we feel the lower, low-middle class in this country get the shaft, yet support the bulk of the nation in workforce and revenue.


And you would be wrong. The lower and low middle class do not support this country in workforce (considering they are less than 25% of it) or revenue (considering they pay virtually nothing in taxes).
on Dec 01, 2006
The problem with that experiment is (and I know because I work right next to that Macy's in SF), is that it isn't judging like against like. The Macy's in question isn't located in an area locals go to, but rather in the busiest tourist area in town. What the experiment "proved" was that vacationing foreigners don't give as much as do Christmas-shopping Midwesterners...
on Dec 01, 2006
I heard a segment on the radio with the 20/20 host. I haven't really looked into it, but I do wonder where the source data is from. The previous studies I've seen come from tax returns, which only shows that some people are more likely to ask for the donations to be tax deductible. Personally, I never file my donations on my taxes, and I usually make my donations anonymously (and I'm registered as an independent)--so I guess I'd really just screw up the methodology, eh?

Regardless, it is interesting.

on Dec 01, 2006
PS. I'm also more likely to help those I know (or know of) rather than give to an organization, though I do that too.

PPS. Does the study account for time donated? In other words, was it strictly about cash, or did it account for those people who say spend four hours a week in a soup kitchen? Time is often just as valuable to an agency as money.
on Dec 01, 2006
Wish I could find the headline I first saw this story under, it would really have pissed Brad off. It was something like "Poor give more than rich, study finds." Like 6% of $20,000 is more than 3% of $2 million.

Giff, I don't think it's appropriate to pressure someone over whether they give enough to charity, especially when you're comparing it to the size of your own donations. Gives kind of a holier-than-thou feeling. (Plus, you can't win this one, because Brad could probably match your gift right now out of his petty cash just to spite you.)

Liberals expect the government to do everything, so they dont give.


I'd be interested in knowing whether this is actually true or not. I could see substituting campaign contributions for charity, since preventing the harm that governments do would probably do as much for humanity as any charitable cause.

Andrew Cory, thanks for that. That is the kind of detail that you always seem to find in these kind of studies if you actually dig into them. There's no point arguing about the generalities of whether liberals give more because the specifics always turn out to be totally ungeneralizable. So 90% of the discussion is people talking over contentless stereotypes.
on Dec 01, 2006
I saw some of these segments and really liked them. John Stossel (the host) said the data showed that conservative Christians are more willing to give of their time, efforts, and money.


I think one thing most people can agree on, liberal or conservative, is that private organizations and charities are far more efficient with their money than government. You don't hear of charities being extremely wasteful in most scenarios. That's why I agree with the conservatives in this situation; everyone wants the poor people taken care of, I just personally believe that the charities are more effective at doing this than the government.
on Dec 01, 2006
First it was secular progressives not liberals named.

Secular progressives= let the government give and take care of you, it's not my job.

Conservatives= here. let ME give YOU a helping hand to get YOU back on your feet.

No where was a political party named.

Disclaimer for the incredibly STUPID. Not all conservatives give more than all secular progressives.

Leave it to someone from the left to make it a personal attack on themselves, and decry... no I give, then name some random number./ no class, none at all.
on Dec 01, 2006

Most importantly, how much do you give Brad?

My wife and I average $10,000-$15,000+ per year in charitable donations, and we are liberal. But I have this nagging suspicion our donation level far exceeds yours. No offense but I don't think anyone should be critiquing anyone elses generosity unless they sit on a pretty high pulpit themselves. We donate because we feel the lower, low-middle class in this country get the shaft, yet support the bulk of the nation in workforce and revenue.

I gave considerably more than that last year to charity. But I don't give very much to charity as a % of my income (about 3% maybe).

Incidentally, I wasn't critiquing anyone. I don't think anyone should feel obligated to give anything to anyone. 

I will say though that it is most often liberals who claim to "Care" more about the less fortunate and that in practice liberals give far less. Liberals tend to be much better at talk than action on any number of things in my experience.

on Dec 01, 2006

Wish I could find the headline I first saw this story under, it would really have pissed Brad off. It was something like "Poor give more than rich, study finds." Like 6% of $20,000 is more than 3% of $2 million.

Why would that piss me off? I just posted explicitly that the poor give more than the rich. I mean, it's the FIRST bullet point in the article I wrote.

on Dec 02, 2006
Remember last week when you were saying it bugs you to be judged by what percent of your income you give rather than the raw amount? It was just an aside, I guess I read too much into it.
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