Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
If not the US, then who?
Published on May 5, 2004 By Draginol In History

The POW abuse case has really made the line between those who hate all things Americans and those who believe the United States is a force for good in the world.  I happen to be one of those people who falls into the latter category.  Some US soldiers abusing POWs is not a good thing. But it needs to be kept in the proper perspective. It's not systematic and it wasn't torture in the way that most people think of torture (it was more akin to pre-interrogation humiliation).  But regardless, compared to the behavior that goes on in the rest of the world, the US is clearly expected to behave at a higher standard.

And I agree -- the US should demand its people behave at a higher standard. But at the same time, the rabid anti-Americanism is not constructive. The US is the world's most powerful nation. But as world hegemon's go, the US is pretty benign. If the US were run by a ruthless dictatorship (which some left wing kooks claim we are anyway) the US's response could have been "Yea, so what? Whatcha gonna do about it?".  It's really hard to take the complaints about the US seriously when the ones doing the complaining couldn't get their act together to do something about Saddam who was far worse. It's not like France, Russia, and Germany are going to mobilize militarily over anything the US is doing. And the reason they don't isn't out of fear or weakness but because deep down they know the US is a benign power.

The United States is restrained by its own checks and balances. Let's not kid ourselves -- the POW mistreatment story wasn't broke by the BBC or Arab news organizations. It was broken by 60 Minutes, an American news show. And they found out about it largely because the issue was already under investigation by the US military. If the US were some global boogeyman, there'd be no 60 Minutes coverage. The mistreatment would never have been known about.

But let's say you're still wholly dissatisfied with the United States. Then let me ask this, what real world power would you prefer be in the US's position? China? Russia? France? Germany? Japan? UK?  In some cases, the world (or parts of it) already got a taste of what that would be like to have one of them in the dominant position.  The question isn't what some imaginary world power of perfection might do in a given situation, it is what would other real world powers do?

In short, perhaps rather than viewing everything the US does through the "USA is evil" glasses maybe cut it a little slack and recognize that, for all its faults, it is a force for good in the world. It's trying to do the right thing to protect itself and in turn protect others.


Comments (Page 1)
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on May 05, 2004
I've never felt its a question of "Who else should whip the earth's ass?" but "Why whip the earth's ass?". I don't want to come down as a peace crazed nut, but peopld don't like the guy thats in charge, he tends to do things they don't like: conflicts with culture/religion is the biggest thing I feel.

It means everything you do will stand out. Its like being the only minority in a work place. The office politics change a bit, anything you do is seen and heard by everyone and gets exaggerated. This makes you an easy target for the blame game.

I got nothing against Americans (well, maybe the Texas) but I don't love everything that you're elected officials have done to me, my family and my friends. This has nothing to do with anything "recent" and no, I'm not Islamic


About the 60 Minutes II thing: While the press is a good safety check in our society, we shouldn't have to rely on it. If a problem is very small, its still a problem. In the free world we live in, theres always been friction between governments and the press. So the gov't is usually "unlikely" to be very forthcoming to the press about things. Press is always telling the gov't what they shouldn't and should have done, and the gov't is always telling the press to stop hyping things up and lying. Its like two sibblings, each is trying to incriminate the other for stealing some cookies. They don't hate each other, but they wish the other one would be kinder to them.
on May 05, 2004

The US as a country has a lot in common with Microsoft as a company.

Because of their size, power and influence they are always under scrutiny.  It doesnt matter their true intention (of which also have correlations), but they always have to be careful not to piss off the little guys, or they'll be in big trouble.

on May 05, 2004
Our case is really quite odd. America has only been around a couple hundred years and despite being completly isolated from the European hotspot at our onset, we managed to flourish while having only one revolution (defeating a totally superior nation at the time) and one civil war. Meanwhile, we've managed to become the most powerful nation politcally and technologically. We've only "lost" a couple wars (depending on how you look at it, some would argue "none") and have helped turn the tide in two world wars.

Meanwhile, we havn't persecuted many people (you could argue the native americans and minorities to some extent) but when we have, it has been nothing like those of the Spanish Inquisition or Hitler. The UN is somewhat of a joke and would collapse without us.

Now I know I sound egocentric or somesuch but it's the truth. Far worse things have been done by nations with far less power. We could realistically invade Canada or Mexio and no one could stop us (or would have a heck of a time doing so). But we have higher standereds.

The best way to sum it up is how I read it in the editorial section of our newspaper; we did not ask the League of Nations to stop Hitler. Why should we need to ask someone to do the right thing?
on May 05, 2004
It's full of humor what you post, and I respect you for it. Let me offer my opinion. Maybe the world did, in fact, cut the USA a 'little slack' when the US invaded Iraq and shunned other countries for not supporting their decision to go to war. Maybe they cut them some slack after they precision bombed a bunch of children in Afghanistan. They could be said to have cut them slack when the US made ridiculous openly false assertions about Iraq's 'nuclear' capabilities and that they were an 'imminent threat' to Americans. The planet has cut them slack since 911 and now it's clear they were wrong in doing so.
on May 05, 2004
You mean the whole situation was reported by an American news organization? Funny how the same people who immediately disregard anything the "government controlled" American media says will happily eat up anything it says that shows the U.S. in a bad light. My problem with the whole ordeal is that those who are anti-American are looking for ways to blame the actions of a few on the entire nation. Meanwhile, the same people criticize those who are anti-UN when they blame the entire U.N. for actions done by a few of its members. Also, it's amazing how there are people out there who act as if this is the first time the U.S. has ever done anything unethical or as if the U.S. is the only country that has ever done anything unethical. Let's also not forget that some U.K. soldiers are being accused of abuse as well. That doesn't justify the actions of the U.S., but it definitely does place it in the company of many of the lovely European nations so many liberals worship.
on May 05, 2004
Despite America's obvious wealth and power, it is not an empire. It will take far less time for the American decline to come about. When it does, Americans will feel the brunt of this decline not through the actions of the 'cowardly' Europeans or despotic dictators, but through its own ignorance and poor behaviour. The average American thinks that America has a right to do anything it wants simply because of its standing. The British Empire had defining noble characteristics which ensured Britain's survival post-imperialism. All the US has is a nation of fat whiners who launch a legal appeal when they spill their tea.
on May 05, 2004
yeah superbaby that's great eh? The 2 countries in this world pretending to help the Iraqi people are the 2 countries that invaded and now run Iraq.
on May 05, 2004

The source of US power is pretty straight forward (and I'll write an article on that later).

It boils down to:

1) A single common market (China isn't a single market in the same sense as the US as there are many different languages and cultures within China whereas a small town in California looks much like a small town in Indiana).

2) Reasonably educated population.

3) Abundant natural resources.

4) Good geographical location for trade (largest coastline that fasciliates trade with Asia and Europe equally).

5) Relatively few government regulations to impede the creation of a business.

6) Relatively low tax rate which provides incentive to "take chances".

For the US to decline, one of these factors would have to change.  For other nations to catch up or surpass the United States, they would need to do better at these factors (or really leverage a smaller factor I'm not listing here).

China has the best chance I'd say in the late 21st century. It can, over time, get enough of a common market that is large enough to sell into directly. If they can bring their education level up and cut the red tape on opening a business then it's just a matter of WHEN, not IF China would economically surpass the US.  Military power (hard power) tends to follow economic power with notable exceptions (Modern Japan).

on May 05, 2004
think of the amount of $US debt China now holds.
on May 05, 2004
Our ‘neoconservatives’ are neither new nor conservative, but old as Bablyon and evil as Hell.
- Edward Abbey

Neoconservatives Are Anti-American
by Paul Craig Roberts

Is Bush correct when he reassures his war fans that torture is not indicative of American values? Why are we surprised that the CIA has launched an investigation of murder of Iraqi prisoners by US guards in Abu Ghraib prison, or that a French TV station has a video of a US helicopter gunship mowing down unarmed Iraqi civilians, or that evidence has come to light that the US is torturing prisoners in Afghanistan as well?

When Bush says that torture is not indicative of American values, he is speaking of the old America, the America of restraint, the America that did not believe that the ends justify the means, a classically educated America that understood that hubris brings nemesis. The new emerging America is Jacobin. Its will to power has cast off restraint. Its inherent and unique virtue gives it the right – Bush says the duty – to exercise unlimited power in the name of enforcing American values elsewhere in the world. The new aggressive spirit of America is embodied in the neoconservative ideology that drives the Bush administration. Professor Claes Ryn describes this new spirit in his recent book, America the Virtuous.

It is an imperialistic spirit whose arrogant moral purpose justifies mowing down whatever is seen to stand it its way. Only evil people would resist the good we are imposing on them. Thus has Bush cast the conflict as one of good vs. evil. If you pay attention to Bush’s speeches, you will see that he is trying to infuse this spirit into the American people. Beware. It is an evil spirit. Because it brooks no objection, it will bring a police state at home and death and destruction abroad, just as the Jacobins brought to 18th century France and Europe.

Americans must understand that the neo-Jacobin spirit that guides the Bush administration is anti-American. It is not unpatriotic to resist this spirit. It is the same evil spirit that motivated Deutschland uber alles (Germany over all). Just as the Nazi claim to be the master race trumped all traditional moral standards, the neoconservatives claim that America is uniquely virtuous justifies America’s domination over the rest of the world. Unless Americans stand firm against this spirit, Americans will endure endless wars and great disasters.
on May 05, 2004
Instead of always critisizing people's "US is evil" glasses, I put it to you to take off your "US is superior in everyway" glasses.

The amount of biased drivel that comes from you is ridiculous. You still fail to acknowledge anything from anyone else's perspective. America is trying to do the right thing by America, not for anyone else mate...

Yeah - an American TV show brought this information to light, so that means it all ok... I hate to sound like a conspirecy theorist here, but if you think we know exactly what is going on all the time, because 60 minutes was able to get this information, you are very naive.

God Bless America indeed... benign or not, the day of reckoning will come soon enough... The only checks and balances in the US are bank cheques and bank balances... anything can happen... if the price is right.

BAM!!!
on May 06, 2004
Brad,
you really do look at the US with a very biased view. Some soldiers abusing Iraqi prisoners IS torture and IS systematic. This was not an isolated case or two. This was a once off problem in a single prison, this was a fauilt in the system in both Iraq AND Afganistan. To highlight issues raised by General Taguba's report

- Detainees were threatened with a loaded pistol
- Cold water was poured on naked prisoners
- Inmates were beaten with a broom handle and chair
- Male detainees were threatened with rape
- A prisoner was sodomised with a chemical light
- Detainees were forced into various sexual positions to be photographed
- Naked inmates were arranged in a pile and then jumped on
- Male detainees were forced to wear women's underwear
- Male detainees were forced to masturbate while being photographed and videotaped
- Military dogs were used to frighten and intimidate; in one case a detainee was bitten

This is torture and it is happening in many locations. The general even described it as 'systematic'. Should I believe you or the person who spent 2 months investigating this?

Accept the truth Brad and stop trying to colour it in a good light.

Does this make the US evil? Of course not but it has serious repercussions for the respect the american military will receive throughout the world. The US administration needs to accept the responsibility for this. Bush's lack of an apology on Arab TV was a serious blunder, but like you they seem to want to pass the blame onto the individuals. How hard would a 'I'm sorry and apologise for the actions of US soldiers' have been?

You often confuse peoples anger at a single issue with general hate for America. This is not the case. My respect for the current administration is definitely at a low but my respect for the American people is as high as ever. The US may be trying to do the right thing, but it should acknowledge whe it makes mistakes and take the responsibility for those mistakes. The current administrations 'pass the buck' attitude is awful. Before it was the intelligence community for 'misleading the administration' on WMD, now it's a few soldiers.

paul.
on May 06, 2004

Solitair - compared to the treatment Iraqi's received at the hands of Saddam, what you describe above is pretty mild, would you not agree?

The issue isn't whether the USA is perfect -- it's not. The issue is keeping things in perspective.

Many of you seem incapable of looking at the issue objectively. I don't have to prove that the US is great. I only have to demonstrate that the US is relatively benign which is a much lower standard. As world powers go, the US is quite benign. Pointing out its faults doesn't change that.

Historically speaking, world powers have generally done things that were purely in their best interests without taking into consideration the interests of other nations.  The US, by contrast, does care about the interests of others.  There's nothing stopping, for instance, the US from being completely brutal.  For all the whining about the "torture" of some POWs in Iraq, there is still the fact that the US could have simply ignored the Geneva conventions entirely and just made systematic torture standard policy. Real torture and cracked down. What could the world have done? Given the world did nothing against Saddam for doing that kind of thing, it's safe to say that they'd do nothing against the US for doing the same things.  That is what I mean by benign -- the US does care about the world community and the opinions of other nations. It may not care "enough" by the standards of others but it does obviously care more than say France or Russia or China.

As long as people try to compare the US to some imaginary ideal super power, they'll always find the US comes up short. People need to deal with the world as it is, not as they wish it was.

on May 06, 2004
Solitair - compared to the treatment Iraqi's received at the hands of Saddam, what you describe above is pretty mild, would you not agree?


Wow. Being "one step" better than Saddam is not something I want my country to strive for. What happened in the prisons was wrong--the President's said it, the Army's saying it, Senator Warner is going ballistic about it--it's not "less wrong" than what someone else did--it's simply wrong.

Get OFF your ass and make a difference instead of sitting there bitching about something you have no say over.


No offense, but as far I as I know, there's only a few Americans on this site that "got off their ass" and "made a difference." I haven't seen him in a while, but the Sgt. from Iraq who was posting updates was one of them. Don't criticize armchair quarterbacks while you are armchair quarterbacking.
on May 06, 2004
My problem with the whole issue is that some people are acting as if the U.S. is the devil and no other nation has people that have done things that people in the U.S. have done. Two wrongs don't make a right, but sometimes we have to decide what is the lesser of two evils.
Also, somehow, the entire administration is to blame for the actions of a few, even if the administration doesn't condone the actions. Yet, when it comes to any other nation or any other organization (i.e. UN), it's wrong to blame the actions of many individuals on the organization itself. Can't help but look at this as anti-Americanism.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure and we waited WAY too long to do something about the dictator in the first place.


What's funny is on one hand, Bush was wrong for not responding to the intelligence he had that lead to 9/11, but on another hand, Bush was wrong for responding to the intelligence he had about Hussein.
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