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Published on November 17, 2005 By Draginol In Business

A friend of mine and I have debated about companies using H1B visas to get skilled technical people into the US.

Stardock uses H1B visas a lot.  But only 65,000 of them are given out by the US government.  Politicians, who typically have no understanding of business, think that these tight limits will encourage companies to look harder for Americans to fill positions.  That's incredibly naive.  The reality is that companies who find talented people overseas that they can't bring over just open up foreign offices which in turn end up depriving Americans of jobs because of infrastructure that ends up being built to support engineers working in other countries.

Today's Wallstreet Journal talks about this issue and gives a generally even-handed (though not very well researched IMO) treatment of the issue.  On the one hand, the # of engineers graduating has gone up -- same for CS majors.  But by a pretty paltry amount (~11,000 more engineers graduated last year compared to 1999, w00t). 

American politicians want to have it both ways too -- they embrace the global economy when it comes to goods and services but demand companies ignore the global economy when it comes to labor and expertise.  At Stardock, we're pretty much always hiring all-year round at this point.  Web developers, engineers, software developers, 3D modelers, artists, sales engineers, etc.  And what I can tell you is that the # of qualified people who are willing to relocate to this part of the country (Michigan) is not high.

Qualified is subjective so let me give you an example. This week we're looking for web developers.  We've been interviewing for months.  The technology today in these areas requires (for us) them to have ASP.NET, C#, and VB.NET experience.  Our sites use this stuff.  We pay competitively with other companies so price isn't so much the issue as opposed to finding people who meet our requirements.

In the WSJ article, "Companies are looking for a five-pound butterfly. Not finding them doesn't mean there's a shortage of butterflies," says Richard Tax, president of the American Engineering Association, which campaigns to prevent losses of engineering jobs."

To which I say: Oh boo-hoo.  I'm sorry but let's say I'm trying to find someone to mow the lawn. If one requirement is that they be able to mow it in less than 2 hours am I asking too much simply because the candidates who apply only know how to use scissors and are unfamiliar with "lawn mowers"?

Again: It's a global economy.  To compete, I need guys who know ASP, VB.NET, etc.  That's life. If the government wants to shut out foreign competition on goods and services and consumers want to pay more, then hey, knock themselves out.  But obviously no one wants that.  And the fact is, if I want, I an get people -- lots of people -- overseas who know this stuff within the industry norm salary requirement.  So at some point in the hiring process, we start looking at overseas and trying to get them a visa.  If we can't get them the visa, then it's just overseas entirely.  And so hundreds of thousands of dollars end up being sent overseas now to pay people who we wouldn't be able to get a visa for due to qualifications or because of the 65,000 yearly limit on visas issued. 

The WSJ article contends that there's lots of American engineers and technical people who have been out of work for a long while looking for jobs.  Yep and I've met some of these guys during interviews.  Here's the deal: If you choose to be an engineer or other technical profession, then it's your responsibility to keep up with the latest technology in your field.  Don't come applying to a software company demanding $80k per year if you only know some ancient web development technology or have only recently starting "toying around with" C++ (C++ is a given, do you know C#?).  The further behind in tech you get, the fewer job opportunities you'll have.

Of course, even on this point the WSJ article wants to have it both ways.  They contend that the unemployment rate for engineers is only 2.5%.  So it does lend credence of the difficulty in finding engineers and other technical professionals.

The bottom line is that the US economy is moving to an technology based economy.  Manufacturing jobs are moving overseas and if the we want to maintain our lead in technological production, we need to encourage more people to become engineers, computer scientists, and other technical professions.  And we need those people to put more effort into keeping up with the latest trends in their fields -- not just when they graduate but for their entire careers. 

In addition, the US government should hand out visas like candy in technical fields. Technical jobs are even easier to outsource than manufacturing jobs.  Don't put companies in the position of having to go without a job (or hire an overpaid, under qualified local for the position) and having to simply employ the talented overseas engineer because the latter will nearly always be the decision.

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Comments
on Nov 17, 2005
well said. Too bad the people in Washington don't get the idea......
on Nov 17, 2005
Government Engineering positions also push this trend along. The Government hires engineers without much of an eye to their qualifications, hires far too many of them, and then pays them to do nothing for most of the time. After a few years the engineer quits or the contract gets terminated and now they are way behind the power curve skill-wsie and are used to high-pay for little work.
on Nov 17, 2005
I have been thinking about applying to Stardock for a while. My fiance is bugging me that we move closer to Canada since our family is there. I worked in Michigan for 3 years (it was just down the street from the old Stardock offices) before I moved here to Nebraska.
on Nov 17, 2005
If you ever need someone to write a program in basic that will fill up your screen with one word, I am your guy! 10 ? "Hello": 20 goto 10 Rats! I just gave away my secret!
on Nov 17, 2005

I actually knew all the technical terms.  Does that make me a real nerd?

And I agree totally.  While my particular position cannot be outsourced, there are a lot of H1Bs that can fill it.  That is why my salary dropped after Y2K.  I took the cut to stay competitive.  But I knew it was coming, so it was not future shock to me.

I stay employed and empoyable by keeping up with the latest.  It is a job in itself, but one you either do, or fall behind.

on Nov 17, 2005
What the government (and many just plain folks) forget is, the labor market is just that.. a "market". When we consumers go looking for goods and services we do all we can to get the best quality for the lowest price... so why do people think that "consumers" of the labor market do it different?
on Nov 17, 2005

What the government (and many just plain folks) forget is, the labor market is just that.. a "market". When we consumers go looking for goods and services we do all we can to get the best quality for the lowest price... so why do people think that "consumers" of the labor market do it different?

Since when did you get so smart!  Very good!  it is a market!

on Nov 18, 2005
Here is a question. I have no idea about any of the programs you mentioned that you look for, lol. But, are the colleges spitting out grads who have experience in ALL of those programs? Could the reason you arent getting any bites be because the new grads dont have a knowledge in every program you are looking for (meaning, you are looking for knowledge in those x number of programs, but does college XYZ train their grads in use of all of those programs)? Lots of people on here say that a college education isnt much and maybe they arent graduating with all of the skills they need to enter a market.
on Nov 18, 2005

But, are the colleges spitting out grads who have experience in ALL of those programs?

Probably none of them.  You have to get a entry level job and get the experience.  Some actually do it while in College.  In IT, College really does not prepare you for a great job.  It teaches you how to learn, and then you do the learning once you leave.  Unlike most fields, IT changes too fast for it to be a part of a curriculm.  You can learn a language, but that does not give you experience in it.

on Nov 19, 2005
Brad, the other problem is geographic allegiences. For example, I'll be studying to be a paralegal pretty soon. Once I graduate, if Stardock.com needed the skills I'll be learning, I think it would be great to come to Michigan and work for you. However, there is no way, short of divine intervention, I could get my wife to move to Michigan.

I use her as an example, but lets face it, far too many people are unemployed (or under-employed) because they just won't leave the area in which they live. On the other hand (and closer to your point), there are employers who would love to expand their market base by recruiting people from other areas... if only the people would be willing to relocate.

What do you think?
on Nov 21, 2005
Ziggystyles: Graduates should be training themselves in those tools, because if you're not interested enough to learn them on your own, you're probably not the sort of person a company is interested in hiring. There are plenty of opportunities for this. Microsoft is giving away development tools for free now. Even where that's not the case, there's usually stiffly discounted student versions available. I doubt Stardock would fail to hire someone if they didn't know every last thing about everything used here, but it's reasonable to expect some familiarity with the tools used, and quite a bit more than familiarity with those in their specialist areas.

ParaTed2k: This is indeed a factor. Nevertheless, I was free to move to Michigan, and I'm sure there are plenty of unattached computer industry professionals who are.
on Jun 22, 2006
Very nice article.
on Jun 22, 2006
When I was still working in the technical industry it was very frustrating to try and find people with the skills required for even my entry level positions, let alone the more advanced engineering positions. I understand exactly what it's like.

For me to advance in my former career and to remain competitive I had to constantly be learning the new technologies as they came out. It was a never ending process of learning and application. I was also responsible for training all of the people under me in those new technologies, procedures, processes, and any new laws that applied as they came out.

I saw far too many perfectly good people get left behind for lack of keeping up with the technology as it developed and newer people pass them by because they were staying on top of things. Come to think of it that's how I advanced.