Race is hardware, but culture is software

I'm a culturalist

Published on February 12, 2006 By Draginol In Current Events

I have little patience for racists. Most racists I encounter fall into two groups:

Group 1: People who are indoctrinated to be racists. They grow up around racist people and become racist themselves. These are the people who will go to ridiculous lengths to "prove" that one race is "better" than another.

Group 2: People who confuse race with culture. They'll say "Look at all those <insert racial group here> doing that? They're natural born <insert insult here>." No. Not true. Not natural born. Perhaps a product of their culture but not of their genetic code.

To use an analogy, ones race is like the hardware of a person. And while there are certainly minute differences between one race and another due to the pressures of natural selection over the past 100,000 years, those differences are not very significant. Simply put, humans are remarkably similar genetically.

But culture is a whole different thing. Culture is like the operating system. For example, if you take two identical personal computers and install two different operating systems on them, they will behave remarkably different. And on that point, I won't cower to political correctness and try to say all cultures are equal. They are not.

I don't even think it's a value judgment. A culture's ability to produce happy, well adjusted people who live a long productive life has some subjectivity to it but not a lot. If someone reading this wants to say "Well maybe misery and suffering is 'good' to some people? Who is to say that happiness, joy, physical health, and longevity are 'better'?" To those people I say, go away and get a life. Let's be real.

Operating system debates are pretty common. MacOS vs Windows vs. AmigaOS vs. OS/2 vs. Linux and so forth. And indeed, it gets hard to say that one is "better" in all ways than another. Few are. But in the case of human culture, I don't think it's a MacOS vs. Windows XP type debate. It's more like a MacOS vs. some machine whose running an OS that requires people to flip switches and put in punch cards. The differences between some human cultures is so vast that it's pretty obvious that it's not geography or bad luck that caused the discrepancies. It's that their culture is holding them back.

Some cultures simply fail, utterly, to produce happy, healthy, prosperous, productive people.

When I see the behavior of the Islamic world, I don't think "Damn Arabs." I don't think there's any significant genetic difference. But I think at this point we can say that the Islamic culture, as a whole, has some serious problems. It is not as good as other cultures. I mean that. It's the Vic-20 of cultures. And I'm not just comparing them to the west.

There are several different major cultures on our planet:

American liberalism
European socialism
Japanese
Chinese
Indian
Russian Orthodox
Latin American
Islamic

These are just the largest ones that come to mind that have a specific identity. There are sub-cultures as well. African-Americanism, Latin American Socialism, Sub-Sahara African cultures, Eastern Europe Orthodoxy/Slavic which is quite different than European Socialism, Australian liberalism. And even within these various groups, there are different modest differences. I'm just pointing this out before someone jumps in with semantics and wants to list off the ones I mised.

Most of the major cultures have their pros and cons to them. Just as we might debate whether MacOS is better than Windows XP, we can debate whether American liberalism, with its consumerism is better than European socialism with its economic stagnation. Each has its problems. So for the most part, debating the various major cultures is like trying to debate Windows vs. Linux vs. Mac and so forth.

But it seems to me that the Islamic culture stands out amongst them all as being the most problematic. It has been this way for my entire life. I can't remember a time in my 34 years of life where the Islamic World wasn't blowing up something, murdering innocencts, or lashing out at something. And over what? There are lots of theories as to why there are Muslim extremists who have a pattern of doing this kind of thing. I can't think of any other cultures that so routinely and consistently use their people as ordinance. Muslims can't even claim to have suffered particularly harshly compared to other cultures.

My personal theory is that at some level, Muslims know that there is something wrong with their culture. That it fails to produce happy, healthy, prosperous people at anywhere near the rate of other cultures. And rather than trying to adapt (borrow features from) other cultures, it simply blames other cultures and lashes out.

The Muslim riots over the pictures of their prophet being in a Danish newspaper come across as more than just violent. They come across as infantile. A big temper tantrum from a culture that routinely cuts the heads off people, sets fire to the religious and national symbols of other cultures and nations, and intentionally murders women and children whose crime is that they are from a different culture. If the Muslim world were an individual person, it would be a slow-witted spoiled brat child with psychotic tendancies.

I personally think the world would be better off if Islamic culture were to disappear -- entirely. I definitely think that the human beings who inhabit the places that are dominated by that culture would be better off (the women definitely would be). I can't think of a single contribution to the world that the Islamic world has provided in the past 500 years. You have to go all the way back to the middle ages to find anything and how much of that was due to geography -- the Islamic world is centered around the fertile crescent where much of Indoeuropean civilization started from.

But as a practical matter, people won't stand up and say the obvious: Some cultures are not as good as others. They won't say it because you'll have unscrupulous politicians and opportunists tag those who say it as "Racist" even though race and culture are unrelated. And because people won't say the obvious, they cannot move people to action. A worldwide movement to put pressure on the Islamic world to knock it off and grow up would probably do some good.

While the other cultures continue to evolve and improve themselves, the Islamic culture stagnates and revels in hatred and violence. So yea, you could say I'm a culturalist. I think some cultures are more worthy than others. I define "Better" in terms that I think are pretty universal for human kind. Happiness. Health. Longevity. Prosperity. Productivity.

Comments (Page 2)

Leauki

on Feb 12, 2006

Marcus, I don't think you got the gist of what I was saying.

I think he finds it difficult to separate the individual from the principles that individual can choose to follow.

Marcus

on Feb 12, 2006

I might have misunderstood, my mistake then.I however think it's wrong to talk about Islam as a culture at all. Let me explain if you like:

I have Iranian friends who does not like the term Islamic Culture (even though some of them are Muslims,Atheists or Zoroastrians). It fails to separate the real underlying cultures. When certain scientists (like Omar Khayyam) or Architects in history made something remarkable they want them to be recognized as Persian/Iranian and not as "Muslim" or "Oriental" culture. For them it's Persian first then Muslim (or Atheist whatever). If it's one thing they don't want to be mixed up with , it's Arabs. I wouldn't be surprised if Malaysian or Indonesian felt the same. I know that I as Swedish want to be tied to Swedish culture(or Nordic) rather than Christian. Even if I was one. Or even better. When American culture has assimilated all others we wont be able to tell the difference anyway

.

What about Bosnians or Albanians? You would be hard pressed to see that many of them are Muslims at all if you didn't ask them. I just don't see how the label "Muslim culture" works in practice. What about Black Muslims in USA? Aren't they first Afro-Americans/Americans? Maybe I misunderstood the whole point but then I think the separation of religion and ethnicity could have been a bit clearer in the first post

.

Btw. I have one addition to my media comment

I think BLOG:s like this is the answer to the streamlined and copycat media(where did the good old dirt digging reporters go?) . I think it's a fantastic alternative to media in general. It's great to be able to follow events from the participants pov rather than having to rely on the journalists various biases. Whether it's conflicts like Iraq or something much more mundande.

Btw. To the one who said "beare of saying that to a Muslim". It's obviously from someone who doesn't know many actual muslims(and prefers to buy the media angle). I have no problem whatsoever criticizing any part of Islam/Jewdom with my muslim/jewish friends, including jokes about stuff like eating Pigs or whatever that is "sacred". I however feel no need to insult people. Mainly because it woudl serve no purpose except instigate fights. IE I don't make concetration camp jokes or similar stuff because that would be crossing a line I don't do with people I call friends.

Would it be normal in a Kerry vs Bush debate if Kerry suddenly called Bush mother a prostitute? Sure, it would be free speech but it would incredibly childish and pointless in a debate.

I don't think it's wrong to ask both sides in a conflict to act responsibly (even though I agree that in this case one side went way too far).

Marcus

Dr Guy

on Feb 12, 2006

But in truth they just took the first obvious (and wrong) answer and believe that they are smarter than those who already rejected it.

Excellent insight!

Marcus

on Feb 12, 2006

Leauki:
Those principles can be widelly varied, which is why "Islamic Culture" doesn't compute. There's no (IF A then

type of logic here.

What about Sufism? Ahmadian? Shiah? Sunni? (and many other variations).

marcus

Marcus

on Feb 12, 2006

"Marcus, I don't think you got the gist of what I was saying. I am not talking about individuals or people. I am talking about cultures -- a set of principles, guidelines, values, etc. I can assure you, a culture has no feelings to hurt." - Draginol

I am fine with that but I just find it hard to classify that roughly. You have (like I wrote above) ask yourself why there aren't any Bosnians blowing themselves up. Or in Burkina Faso, Mali, Senegal and many other Islamic countries.

Middle East is Middle East. This is the core of the issue. Had ME been peaceful for say 50 years then I'm sure you'll see less of this. Maybe if Bush Iraq plan succeeds

. Just don't expect everyone to just renounce god like that. It takes an open society for that to happen.

marcus

bakerstreet

on Feb 12, 2006

marcus: Your point about people within the cultures who differ with them doesn't change the fact that the cultures themselves are flawed. Sure, maybe they can make a new Islamic culture. That would rock. The fact is, though, that if you look in places like France, and Denmark, and England, when Muslims migrate to other coutries, they not only take those cultures with them, they want to impose their standards on the nations in question.

That goes beyond being bugs, and becomes almost viral in nature. When Islamic nations start calling for the deaths of people half a world away who do things forbidden in their culture, well, it isn't just a bad piece of software anymore. It's malware with legs.

You don't recall the problems in Bosnia? You don't recall genocide and rape on BOTH sides of that war? If Muslims are different in other parts of the world, it is because hardline Muslim culture of the Middle East was softened by its synthesis with another culture.

wow

on Feb 12, 2006

Well you can be right. I've not the thoughts to dispute your opinions.

But personally I feel it's a more of a symptom of relative anxiety rather than an inherent flaw in Islamic culture. We should bear in mind that civilizations, subscribing to a particular culture, would rise and fall. Such as it is, the past 400 years have been mostly a story of European (and their descendant states) dominance.

Most Muslims I know pine for the golden age of Islaminc/Middle East culture, when the main advances in the sciences were usually from them and Muslims were conquering all the way to Europe. As it is, with the rise of global consciousness, Arabs, and subsequently all other Muslims who generally always look towards the Middle East for guidance are starting to feel edged out and oppressed (note I'm just saying that that's how they feel) by the long dominance of western states.

Prosperity would probably help, while in the case of the rich Arabic states, other sorts of successes that do not rely on their natural endowment of oil.

I believe in the currently unlikely event that the US is beset by poverty and loses the strength it possesses now, it would experience the same sort of reactionary surge.

bakerstreet

on Feb 12, 2006

"Most Muslims I know pine for the golden age of Islaminc/Middle East culture, when the main advances in the sciences were usually from them and Muslims were conquering all the way to Europe. As it is, with the rise of global consciousness, Arabs, and subsequently all other Muslims who generally always look towards the Middle East for guidance are starting to feel edged out and oppressed (note I'm just saying that that's how they feel) by the long dominance of western states."

The problem is, that age is mythical for the most part, at least if you offer it as somethign that would be palatable to the modern world. Women were still abused, punishments were still horrific, Islamic law was still barbaric, Jews and Christians were still second class citizens, and other religions like Hinduism were pretty much declared open season on.

Sure, they had great advances in science and mathmatics. There is really no time in Arabic history that a modern person from Europe or America could live without being disgusted by how things were done. That's the saddest part. Things are better there now than they probably ever have been, and it is causing so much trouble that it is still endangering the whole world.

Marcus

on Feb 12, 2006

But then all Cultures are flawed in that case. It was after all the "nice Western" culture which bombed millions of Vietnamese to oblivion. Wasn't it? Nevermind slavery, colonization and all other horrors like Pogromes etc. Or was this your defence of the superior "Christian Culture"? The ones that killed my heathen ancestors for not bowing to their might?

I would call it human flaws, but that's me.

That goes beyond being bugs, and becomes almost viral in nature. When Islamic nations start calling for the deaths of people half a world away who do things forbidden in their culture, well, it isn't just a bad piece of software anymore. It's malware with legs.

I can assure you that there are Danes shouting the same thing. And Britts(heard about National Front?). They sometimes wear brown shirts and sometimes not. It's the one who doesn't I worry about. Extremists never worried me, the silent majority however (like in Germany 36) does. I can assure you that the majoriy of Muslims did NOT scream for Danish deaths. Maybe boycots but so what? Fully legit way of protesting. What frightens me is European xenophobia. I have to say that USA is much better in this department. Europeans have many shameful contributions to history. Again I would rather credit all those flaws to the human species rather than any special culture.

You may claim the opposite but you are making the mistake of letting rotten apples represent way too many people. It's like mister Adolf and his gang would represent the entire German culture. Big mistake in my opinion.

You don't recall the problems in Bosnia? You don't recall genocide and rape on BOTH sides of that war? If Muslims are different in other parts of the world, it is because hardline Muslim culture of the Middle East was softened by its synthesis with another culture

Yes I recall the problems. I also recall that they are still hunting the "Western Culture" Ratko Mladic for the massacres in Srebrenica. I also recall that the majority of the guys shaking bars in Hague are not Muslims. I also recall that none of the problems were about Islamic Culture, but rather about crazy idiots behaving like Children. A good question would be. Are Bosnian Muslims Western Culture or Muslim Culture according to the posters here?

Btw. I regard Christian Culture and Islamic Culture virtually the same in this context. They are basically same type of cultures in my book.

marcus

Leauki

on Feb 12, 2006

Btw. To the one who said "beware of saying that to a Muslim". It's obviously from someone who doesn't know many actual muslims(and prefers to buy the media angle).

Negative. I grew up in the largest Turkish city outside Turkey. As a child I knew many Muslims (class mates, friends, shop keepers etc.). Now I live in what is more or less the Arab part of Dublin.

I believe you are much too quick in your judgement. Disagreement or even sarcastic remarks do not prove an "obvious" ignorance.

But if I bought the media angle, I would probably have a higher opinion of Islam.

The individual Muslims I have known in Berlin were mostly decent people. I am very fond of Turkey. But Turkey is not a part of the Muslim culture Brad was talking about. Turkey is a mixture between Europe and Islam. And that is why Turkey is doing better than other Islamic countries.

The Arabs I know here don't know much about me. But I eat a lot and Arabs here run restaurants, and they always remember me as a good customer.

My comment (which you accidentally misquoted, please don't put words in quotes unless the words are a quote), again, was not about individual Muslims, but about the culture. In Saudi Arabia, being an atheist would cause you a lot of trouble. In Indonesia, non-Muslims are often targeted by mobs. In Turkey someone recently killed a Catholic priest.

You can be an atheist in America and Europe, but you only have that privilege because American and European culture is advanced enough to respect (or at least ignore) your beliefs, even if they differ from some sort of ideal the rulers want you to believe in.

That is exactly one of the differences between Islamic and European culture.

What about Sufism? Ahmadian? Shiah? Sunni? (and many other variations).

There are Catholics and Protestant and others in Christianity too. Yet they have many principles and traits in common.

Incidentally, I think Sufism is illegal in Saudi Arabia. And Shi'ites and Sunnis often kill each other. Another trait of Islamic culture that shows some room for improvement.

Marcus

on Feb 12, 2006

And they werent in Europe? Jews lived far better in Granada than anywhere else(until the Inqusition came that is). Nevermind Ottoman Empire where they headed afterwards (Turkey that is). Minorities have allways been in a bad position, "culture" nonwithstanding. Just look how badly the Irish have been treated in Northern Ireland by the English. Not that i can see much difference between the English and Irish culture myself.

Sure, they had great advances in science and mathmatics. There is really no time in Arabic history that a modern person from Europe or America could live without being disgusted by how things were done. That's the saddest part. Things are better there now than they probably ever have been, and it is causing so much trouble that it is still endangering the whole world.

They and they

. This is what happens when one lumps together people into "Islamic" culture. Many of those scientists were Iranians and wrongly attributed as Arabs. Taj Mahal for instance was built by a Persian. Not Arab. I assure that most Iranians(muslims or not) highlights that difference. The Iran vs Iraq war should show you that Islamic means very little when it comes to conflicts.

marcus

Leauki

on Feb 12, 2006

Marcus,

nobody said that western culture isn't flawed. So what are you going on about?

As for slavery, that is something where western culture shines. Western culture, specifically British culture, ended slavery.

I am sure that was the (very) slow impact of Christianity that made that possible.

Oh, and Mr. Adolf did represent German culture at the time. Luckily WWII changed German culture a lot.

These things are not flaws of the human species. It's not genetic. Individuals make their own decisions, and those who decide to follow the principles of a sick culture do so because of their own free will or because of what they were taught. And that's what culture is.

Leauki

on Feb 12, 2006

And they werent in Europe?

The Golden Age of western culture is more or less now.

And Jews are, for example, not second-class citizens in America and Europe.

How's that for a comparison with Islam now and Islam during its own Golden Age?

Marcus

on Feb 12, 2006

Well but you helped a bit

. Those one liners are prone to mis-judgement.

Are we talking about fundamentalists then? Because then yes; I would agree fully. Of course those Iranians I speak about hate the Mullahs in Iran. That's why they are here in the first place. The Mullahs shows what's wrong about mixing Church/Mosques and State. It does not (in my opinion) show any flaws of the religion itself. Humans make it flawed.

The point is however; There are Christians which are just as bad. I'm not even talking about the hard liners in the Bible Belt(USA). But here in my country, Sweden. I've met Christians (some part of large World wide faiths) who seriously want to force convert all Jews in order to prepare for Christ. They of course want all gays removed too(or killed simply) and women to be removed from all jobs to serve their men at home as well. They are not nut cases either but part of big groups like the Pentacostal Church etc. So trust me. Christianity can be just as bad.

Surprised about this?

You talk about Arabs as well. I would have understood Brad better had mentioned Arab Culture specifically rather than lumping such wide array of cultures into one. To me there is no real Islamic Culture. Maybe some Imams dreams about it but I doubt there will ever be One Islamic Culture.

There are Catholics and Protestant and others in Christianity too. Yet they have many principles and traits in common.

But you are aware of the similarities in the Bible, Quaran and Torah? What does this say then?
Nevermind that they all stole much of their material from Zoroastrianism (yes including the birth of gods son).

marcus

bakerstreet

on Feb 12, 2006

"But then all Cultures are flawed in that case. It was after all the "nice Western" culture which bombed millions of Vietnamese to oblivion. Wasn't it? Nevermind slavery, colonization and all other horrors like Pogromes etc. Or was this your defence of the superior "Christian Culture"? The ones that killed my heathen ancestors for not bowing to their might?"

All cultures are works in progress, sure. The difference is some cultures don't have built in ordinances supposedly from God that prohibit them from adjusting. If you want to compare modern Islamic culture to Middle Ages Christian culture, fine, but admit that you are offering almost a 1000 year handicap.

As for war, I know of no sizable culture that doesn't have the problem. I don't think Brad is talking about war as much as killing people because a nation thousands of miles away has a newspaper that printed cartoons that insult you, or constantly burning effigies and screaming "Death to..."

"I can assure you that there are Danes shouting the same thing. "

Really? People in Denmark are burning embassies, rioting in the Arab neighborhoods, and calling for the deaths of Muslims? How many Muslims so far have been killed in Denmark during this? It was the assassination of van Gogh that got all this started to begin with. How many Arabs have been assassinated in Denmark because of insults to Christianity?

"You may claim the opposite but you are making the mistake of letting rotten apples represent way too many people. It's like mister Adolf and his gang would represent the entire German culture. Big mistake in my opinion."

Were we talking about the US you'd probably say that the apathy of the American people allow the rotton apples to speak for them, and according to Muslim militants that means we are complicit. If Muslims wanted to diffuse the association, wouldn't they want to express themselves as unquestioningly against this kind of thing?

Oddly, it seems the opposite is true. They offer a few lukewarm statements when people are beheaded and riot over cartoons.

"Btw. I regard Christian Culture and Islamic Culture virtually the same in this context. They are basically same type of cultures in my book."

Then you are either blind, or allowing Islam to have a 1000 year handicap in terms of how they run their countries and how they treat their citizens. If you find modern Europe and Saudi Arabia to be equal, well, that's a stretch.

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