Religion of Peace Update

on Feb 18, 2006

Actually they are not all the same. I don't know a ton of muslims, but the ones I do know don't seem "much the same" as the ones people like you love pointing out.

2

marcusjm

on Feb 18, 2006

Well, you can't help but quote Marx on this one (the only part he was right on).

Religion is like Opium for people. It makes them dumbed down and easy to control.

Otoh Ayn Rand said pretty much the same thing. marcus

3

Leauki

on Feb 18, 2006

Actually they are not all the same. I don't know a ton of muslims, but the ones I do know don't seem "much the same" as the ones people like you love pointing out.

Draginol doesn't like to point them out. It's they themselves who want the pointing.

That's why they march the streets with big signs for others to read, in case you ever wondered.

We are supposed to notice them. We have a deal.

I don't care who speaks for Islam. Somebody will. If those other Muslims you speak about disagree, they are free to voice their own opinions. I will listen to them too.

4

Draginol

on Feb 18, 2006

Actually they are not all the same. I don't know a ton of muslims, but the ones I do know don't seem "much the same" as the ones people like you love pointing out.

If I wrote a piece of software that had catastrophic failure on say 5% of machines it was installed, I think it would be considered buggy. If I made a drug that killed or injured 1% of the people who used it, it would never make it to market.

So saying something to the effect of "Well most of the people are fine." is meaningless.

Regardless of where you go, where Islam is, there is violence and hatred that stands out far above other cultures and religions.

5

DJBandit

on Feb 18, 2006

Actually they are not all the same. I don't know a ton of muslims, but the ones I do know don't seem "much the same" as the ones people like you love pointing out.

Funny you say that cause he said Islam not muslims. So what I understood he ment was that the religion seems to be the same everywhere not the people(hope I'm right), specially since there is no one defending the opposite of it. Remember, not everyone who believes in islam is muslim and not everyone who is muslim believes in islam.

Why do you always jump the gun to defend something without actually making sense of it first?

6

BlueDev

on Feb 18, 2006

We always hear these rumors of how the majority of Muslims don't feel this way (like those in the photo).

My question is simple:

Why aren't they speaking out against these ass hats? I truly believe that the 'majority' of Muslims are just as offended by this as I am, but it disturbs me that they are so silent on the matter.

7

DJBandit

on Feb 18, 2006

We always hear these rumors of how the majority of Muslims don't feel this way (like those in the photo).

My question is simple:

Why aren't they speaking out against these ass hats? I truly believe that the 'majority' of Muslims are just as offended by this as I am, but it disturbs me that they are so silent on the matter.

Exactly, an insightful for you.

BTW, can someone explain why the quote feature does not work with firefox?

8

Daiwa

on Feb 18, 2006

DJBandit -

The quote function works fine in FF for me when I'm in JU forums, but won't work when I'm in the WC forums - I just get the beginning & end quote brackets without the highlihted text. Don't know what the difference would be.

9

bakerstreet

on Feb 18, 2006

One has to wonder how many Muslim-run abu garaibs there are in nations like Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Syria, etc. Turkey is known for the horror of its prison system. Then there's China, who rubber hoses people to death for their religious beliefs. Saudi Arabia seems to have no problem slaughtering people who don't happen to have their veil on. We pose people in funny positions, and they mutilate and purposely handicap their prisoners.

And yet, when we do something, world outrage. How do they have the moral authority to be mad about cartoons, or abu garaib, if they sit idly by and watch these things happen in Muslim countries? If the police allow all their friends to murder people and then condemn you for it, is that the "justice" these people are crying out for?

Hell no, they don't want justice, they want the same favored status they've earned with their oil for 100 years. They beleive since we need their oil we'll overlook their sins and they can condemn ours. That time should just about be over.

10

marcusjm

on Feb 18, 2006

It's like saying "Why doesn't anyone speak up against Catholic Church when they are activelly working against Contraception against AIDS": That strategy will end up causing millions of deaths (slight difference from maybe 10k from suicide bombs). Arch reactionary religions are bad news but it's nothing new.

What can anyone do when religious freaks get their way through? Not much, except stay on the path of REASON like Ayn Rand would have done. Unfortunatelly there aren't too many smart people like her around.
Too many people will keep on believing that a bunch of goat hearders 2000 years ago was more worth listening to than people like Einstein or Ayn Rand. Just because there are strong powers working towards those goals.
Teach people about the libertarian way(the power of individualism), that is the way out of intolerance and narrow mindness. Slowly people will learn

.

bm

11

bakerstreet

on Feb 18, 2006

" It's like saying "Why doesn't anyone speak up against Catholic Church when they are activelly working against Contraception against AIDS": That strategy will end up causing millions of deaths (slight difference from maybe 10k from suicide bombs). Arch reactionary religions are bad news but it's nothing new.

A) people do speak up, a lot, and frankly the opponents of the Catholic church are far, far louder than the church and its supporters.

AIDS is a disease, and not a product of the church. If people followed the church's direction, there'd be no AIDS, so you can't blame the Church for the result of practices they condemn.

Terror, on the other hand, is the direct command of Muslim religious leaders. No, not all of them, not even a majority, probably, but the problem is the rest sit back and save their outrage for cartoons. When there are riots over the murders of schoolchildren by Muslims, I'll believe that Islam is a religion that values peace.

"Too many people will keep on believing that a bunch of goat hearders 2000 years ago was more worth listening to than people like Einstein or Ayn Rand. Just because there are strong powers working towards those goals. "

I listen to Einstien.

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind. "Science, Philosophy and Religion: a Symposium", 1941"

I don't listen to Rand because I think she was a kook. If she lived now, most people who worship her like a prophet would be condemning her for her homophobia. She was yet another self-deluded thinker passing off subjective philosophy as objective "reason".

12

Leauki

on Feb 18, 2006

I don't listen to Rand because I think she was a kook. If she lived now, most people who worship her like a prophet would be condemning her for her homophobia. She was yet another self-deluded thinker passing off subjective philosophy as objective "reason".

I agree.

Yet I want to note the irony that you perhaps overlooked and that Marcus might not have intended, I don't know. In any case, it is possibly worth pointing out for the other readers.

The goat herders of 200 years ago whom he refers to, and Albert Einstein, and Alissa Rosenbaum ("Ayn Rand") were, of course, all Jewish.

What an influence!

13

marcusjm

on Feb 18, 2006

[A) people do speak up, a lot, and frankly the opponents of the Catholic church are far, far louder than the church and its supporters.

Unfortunatelly billions still listen to the crap.

AIDS is a disease, and not a product of the church. If people followed the church's direction, there'd be no AIDS, so you can't blame the Church for the result of practices they condemn.

AIDS is a disease which is transfered through sexual contact. If people followed the (Catholic not Lutheran/Anglican) church direction they would get AIDS, which is what they do. If they listened to scientists however (like Einstein), they would of course NOT get AIDS because the Condom would stop it. Simple?

Again. Religious groups are (by definition) morons(yes Muslims too). We agree on that I guess?

Terror, on the other hand, is the direct command of Muslim religious leaders. No, not all of them, not even a majority, probably, but the problem is the rest sit back and save their outrage for cartoons. When there are riots over the murders of schoolchildren by Muslims, I'll believe that Islam is a religion that values peace.

Ok. I agree again, they are morons. Religion is for those who want to be controlled (lack of brain probably).
Your sentence illustrates exactly what Ayn Rand talked about(or wrote). You wrote "direct command". This is how religion works, it strips off people the very core of self sentinence, the ability to think for themrselves. My guess is that those goat hearders were afraid of some smarter buddy and decided that no, noone can be allowed to think for themselves. As a bonus they added the ban on eating Pigs (to protect their sheep farming industry).
bm

14

marcusjm

on Feb 18, 2006

The goat herders of 200 years ago whom he refers to, and Albert Einstein, and Alissa Rosenbaum ("Ayn Rand") were, of course, all Jewish.

They were great examples on how individuals overcome superstition and acts on Reason.
Ayn Rand may have disliked homosexuality but neither did she deny anyone to do EXACTLY what they wanted with their own lives. The capital libertarian principle.
And if Ayn Rand was a "kook". Why has she been proven right on every point? Capitalism and Individualism is the way. Collectivism(religions, nazism, communism etc) is for morons(or goat hearders perhaps).

bm

15

marcusjm

on Feb 18, 2006

If someone has problems following my message then I have a good example here.

Brian: Please, please, please listen! I've got one or two things to say.
The Crowd: Tell us! Tell us both of them!
Brian: Look, you've got it all wrong! You don't NEED to follow ME, You don't NEED to follow ANYBODY! You've got to think for your selves! You're ALL individuals!
The Crowd: Yes! We're all individuals!
Brian: You're all different!
The Crowd: Yes, we ARE all different!
Man in crowd: I'm not...
The Crowd: Sch!

Yes it's from Life of Brian. Should be required watching for every religious fanatic.

marcus