Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
Things that went right, went wrong, etc.
Published on March 5, 2006 By Draginol In GalCiv Journals

Some users have suggested that we prune/moderate the GalCiv II forum.  The reason for this is because what inevitably happens is that as a software product gets out there, you end up with a lot of people in absolute numbers who have a problem, ignore pinned topics, and just make an obnoxiously titled posts such as "This game sux! bugz! Rushed to release!!11" or something to that effect. 

If you have a 2% problem rate and you have 50,000 people running the game, that means you've got a 1000 people with problems. And some number of them are going to make posts.  It only takes a half dozen to a dozen posts to change the perception of a forum. So I do recognize the temptation to eliminate duplicate posts or venting posts.  But I also feel that people should have the right to go out and vent. They paid $40 for the game, they should be able to vent if they have a problem.

Of course, I reserve the right to vent back at the guy who posts a diatribe about how the game is a "bugfest" only to find out that they're running a video card with 3 year old drivers and literally ignored the warning dialog that popped up.  Or to remind the person who's screaming how his machine can't run it that he posted no info on his machine.

That said, I don't want to give the impression that the game is perfect. It's not. Every software product will have some problem, somewhere. It's purely a matter of percentages. Even consoles have problems.  Go to any forum for the recent launch of any software (console or PC) and watch. 

We don't like getting yelled at by customers who run into some problem any more than you like running into problems.  And we especially get no joy out of people making forum posts that ignore the stickies proclaiming the game is buggy. 

Let me put it like this, if the game crashes, we consider that unacceptable.  After months and months of testing, we made sure it was rock solid before sending out.   So far, we've only encountered two crash bugs since release that were due to bugs in our code, the rest have been old drivers, bad drivers, etc. (and people wonder why developers like consoles).

So below is a list of things we've compiled that cause people problems and how to work around them.

Whenever you have some problem, you should look at your debug.err which is created in the game's directory.  This will tell you a lot about your system. And if a person does experience some problem with the game, they should go to the pinned topic in the forums that is appropriate to them and post their debug.err info there. That's where tech support watches the most

 I'm going to put this vaguely in the order of what causes a problem.

#1 Game crashes immediately.

Happens to approximately 2.5% of users.

Most common cause: Running your desktop at below 1024x768 or running your desktop in 16-bit color.  This resolves 99% of users.

#2 Game crashes randomly while playing!

Happens to approximately 2.5% of users.

Most common cause: People with older video drivers. We weren't kidding, you MUST HAVE A RECENT (past year) set of video drivers. If you don't, the game will crash randomly. The readme says this. The stickies say this. We're not kidding around here. You must update your video drivers. Ignoring all that and running into the forum and saying "How could they ship this piece of #$@#!" is not going to update your video driver. You must update the video driver.

Next most common cause: People who have eliminated their page file or have a very small page file.  That's your virtual memory.  Check the debug.err and near the top it will say how much virtual memory you have allocated. If it's less than a gig (heck, nowadays you should have at least 2 gigs for virtual memory) then there's your problem.

Next most common cause: Overheating. The game's 3D engine has no polygon count, no texture limit. It's designed so that even 2 years from now, you can with mods plug in advanced textures. Some modders have already put in ships from popular sci-fi movies that have over a million polygons and it works.  But it comes at a cost: Your video cards are fully utilized. And that can translate to heat.  This mostly affects people who have built their own machines and thrown in a powerful video card.  Version 1.0X (and later) support GPU throttling which should solve this.

Ex: If the player is running the nvidia 81.95 drivers, update them to 81.98 or better.

Next most common cause: People with AMD64 Dual Core who haven't updated their chipset drivers. GO here, get your drivers, play game, have fun.

#3 Game crashes when I save a ship design.

THIS one is our bug.  Cause: If the player selects a planet from the GNN dialog, clicks on the star port, clicks on the shipyard, builds ship, it will die in 1.0.  Basically the Z-order of the windows gets confused.  Obviously, nobody in the beta/gamma/RCs ever tried to build a ship this indirectly (we just clicked on the shipyard icon).  It was fixed essentially immediately.  You'll need to download the update or not go to the shipyard via all those dialogs.

#4 Game crashes when I invade a planet once in a great while when playing as a custom race.

THIS is also our bug. It only occurs when you play as non-human and only once in a very great while. Fixed in 1.0X. Though at this point, we're talking cases that can be counted on one hand.

OTHER TIPS:

Read the stickies! Post your debug.err.  Or at the very least tell us what kind of computer you have (though debug.err will tell us all about your computer). 

If the game crashes on the player, they should be able to assume that there's a reason for it and that there's probably a solution for it.


Comments
on Mar 05, 2006
Brad,

This game sucks. It truly, and utterly sucks. It sucks you from reality into the SciFi world never to return. How am I suppose to finish four more years of school if I spend all my free time playing this sucky game?

Oh, and you need to make a seriously stripped down demo version of this game for people to use as a burn-in test for their systems, heh. I'm dying to see my processor and video card pegged at 100% to see if my little Shuttle SN25P can handle it.

Edit: Brad, isn't there a way to have the game read the debug.err file on startup, and if the game crashed last time due to a driver issue, have it pop up a window on next start giving the player a notice as to why it crashed and what to do? Yes, I know they should have just updated them in the first place like the readme says, but sometimes having an immediate response to a problem experienced can convince people to do something.
on Mar 05, 2006
Heh.
on Mar 05, 2006
I think I may be in an interesting situation. The game does crash on me randomly, and I know why, but there is seemingly nothing I can do about it. My video drivers are 2 years old and there are no updates. I'm using an integrated ATI Mobility 9000 IGP on a Toshiba laptop and the most recent drivers I can find are dated September 2004. I've tried installing the newer ATI catalyst drivers for Mobility cards but they all cause errors with my system. What should I do?
on Mar 05, 2006
I have another crash bug for you. Might as well post it here.

When I get a better factory-type-technology from trade and has planets that were building the older variant, some of them will instantanously finish building the new one. Very noticable on a big map with lots of planets that are building their first factory. However, those planets will not gain any of the production from the bug-built factory. It's there but it doesn't do anything. And if it is demolished, the planet will get 0 social and mil. prod. (at least if it only had that factory) making the planet completly useless.
If I now click on previous planet and next planet immediatly after each other, I get a crash to windows.

If I save and reload the game after the bug has built the factories, they give production properly.
This crash has happened to me at least two times. The latest was earlier today with 1.0X.
I think that the same thing has happened with other upgradable buildings too.
on Mar 05, 2006

I wrote this in response to someone who was convinced that the game was buggy and "rushed" (we're always rushed to release apparently).

It's worth repeating:

This doesn't help anyone when I say this but it still needs to be said:

A product or service will always fail for some % of people.  Someone, somewhere will have a problem. The question is purely what %.

I've spent all day today working with different people who had crash problems. 

One person had their VM locked at 512MB. So eventually, in a largish sized galaxy, the game would run out of memory and crash. It would happen on any game that used quite a bit of memory.

Another person had NO VM.  They had a system with 512MB of RAM and no page file. Same as above.

I also worked with Def (in this thread) who was updating his ships and saving them as the same name but not upgrading the existing ships.  I'm not sure what the deal is. But his problems went away by simply giving his new ships a new name.  Is this a bug? I don't know, it dpeends on what the cause was.  We don't know yet.  But obviously not a common issue.

I worked with someone this evening who got random crashes and it turned out he had an ancient computer that he had upgraded the video card to some monster but his system was not set up to handle that card very well when it was stressed at all. His last game he played was COunterstrike (the original).

If you have enough of your game out there, these things will pop up.  And that's on top of the genuine bugs that are our fault.  But I don't see how we could have prevented these things. 

For example you write:

Industry on several planets crashes which makes it impossible ti build anything on them etc. etc.

That tells me little but more to the point, I have not seen a single report like this.

 I have a beta build up on https://www.galciv2.com/latestbuild Link

You can try that and run the debug parameter (c:/> galciv2.exe debug) and post the debug.err if you want to help try to find out what the problem is.

I realize it's tempting to just say "Well these guys rushed it out and hav ea buggy product." But I don't think that's a fair charge.  We had thousands of beta testers. Our gamma testers all felt it was ready to go.  We felt it was ready to go. And based on the reception, the game was ready to go.  You will always have some glitches or things that got missed along with compatibility problems.

All we can do is try our best to make as many people as we can happy.  But we also know that some %, some very small % but probably high in absolute numbers will simply not be able to run the game. 

And that's true of any product -- look closely at the Xbox 360 launch for instance.  Their first run at manufacturing problems that caused overheating in a small % of users.  Civ IV didn't work right on a significant % of ATI cards when it shipped.  I won't even touch on BF2 or its expansion.

It's not because people are lazy or greedy or stupid. It's simply a matter of numbers.

on Mar 05, 2006

I have another crash bug for you. Might as well post it here.

When I get a better factory-type-technology from trade and has planets that were building the older variant, some of them will instantanously finish building the new one. Very noticable on a big map with lots of planets that are building their first factory. However, those planets will not gain any of the production from the bug-built factory. It's there but it doesn't do anything. And if it is demolished, the planet will get 0 social and mil. prod. (at least if it only had that factory) making the planet completly useless.
If I now click on previous planet and next planet immediatly after each other, I get a crash to windows.

If I save and reload the game after the bug has built the factories, they give production properly.
This crash has happened to me at least two times. The latest was earlier today with 1.0X.
I think that the same thing has happened with other upgradable buildings too.

I'll see if I can reproduce that. If I can, I can fix it.

on Mar 05, 2006

I think I may be in an interesting situation. The game does crash on me randomly, and I know why, but there is seemingly nothing I can do about it. My video drivers are 2 years old and there are no updates. I'm using an integrated ATI Mobility 9000 IGP on a Toshiba laptop and the most recent drivers I can find are dated September 2004. I've tried installing the newer ATI catalyst drivers for Mobility cards but they all cause errors with my system. What should I do?

The best suggestion I can give you is to use 1.0X and go to the new video options and turn off all the video features. Then, if that solves the problem, start turning them back on until the problem returns.

on Mar 05, 2006
i agree!!!!! Most people who complain have no ideal what they have in there machine (ie processor, motheboard, video card) .)they should get a xbox or ps2) When i saw your game coming out way back when, you gave some of the minimum requirements.
Well haveing build my computers since 1989, i knew that you take it to the next level.
i first figured out what can i get( at a good price) and what will keep machine ahead( not the best ) but run good.
Your game has some problems, but you address them on this site and have a patch coming out that will fix them.
Hey some of the games that have come out that had more bug in it, than a raid test facility. Your game has more +'s than minus( that will soon disappear). If it was me, i don't complain unless it eats my operating system., other that, i'm good
on Mar 05, 2006
FWIW, it's not the crashing that have bothered me. It's things like the resource problem with starbases, which I believe was universal (not specific machines) and affects a large fraction of the games (anyone who took over an enemy starbase). That's the type of bug that shouldn't get past QA.

The crashes, while more annoying, are, as you say, nearly unavoidable, given the diversity of computer hardware.

I feel like I'm getting pecked to death with tiny problems. None of them, individually, affects game play very much. The gestalt, however, makes the product look a bit shabbier. I know and appreciate Stardock worked hard to get the game as a whole working and it's still fun. I certainly do not feel cheated by my purchase. I just wish it was better and I expect that over the next few weeks, it will become so (e.g., the resource problem has already been fixed).

I have been very pleased about Stardock's williness to listen to their customers and respond as they are able. I have also been pleased with the rate of improvement since release. Without that, I suspect that I would have a different opinion.
on Mar 05, 2006

FWIW, it's not the crashing that have bothered me. It's things like the resource problem with starbases, which I believe was universal (not specific machines) and affects a large fraction of the games (anyone who took over an enemy starbase). That's the type of bug that shouldn't get past QA.

It wasn't universal.  It wasn't hardware related but it involved specific steps to reproduce, it wasn't simply a matter of "build starbase on resource, blow up, can't build resource".

Have you downloaded 1.0X? What peckings are you still feeling? Let's bear in mind that the game has only been out about a week.  I know of a certain major FPS I'm still trying to get working reliably and it's been out for months and they just released an expansion pack that barely works on some of my machines. 

on Mar 05, 2006
I have download 1.0X. It is certainly better (haven't seen the phantom ship design problems that were there before).

I've added comments to other posts about my peckings, trying to be helpful. To give you an idea, here's a short list of some (picked things easy to verify that they're still in 1.0X):
  • When loading saved game, you go through new game sequence
  • When upgrading a ship, the defense numbers are just wrong
  • If you upgrade a ship design, the first thing you do can't be select a component from the bottom list and remove it (it'll put it back).
  • If you upgrade a ship design and save to the same name, it pops-up an upgrade box even if you have no ships of that type
  • Virtual Reality Centers are worse than their predecessor (or at least appear to be), but governor will auto-upgrade to it anyway


As I said, it's not that any one of these things is a problem (the larger things have mostly been fixed). It's the quantity that gets me.
on Mar 06, 2006
I really have had some of the weirdest crash of all the time, I begin a game after 20-25 turns it crashes, I reload the game after 10 or 15 turns from my last saved (from which I reload the game) it crashes again, then I reload a 3rd time and it works perfect no more crashes, then I go and play 2 or 3 more games and everything is OK and then the same thing happens again, it is happening like every 3 or 4 games, weird or what?
on Mar 06, 2006
I don't even have the game, (yet) Though after reading the glowing review at gamespot I think I might. What I did want to say however is that having read what Draginol has written, I'm amazed at how candid he's being, (at least I'm presuming you're a he That is without a doubt the most honest reaction I've ever seen from a game developer. I say that as somebody who bought Half-Life2 and was physically unable to play it without a crack for the first two months. Subsequently my graphics card snuffed it, and then I just found other things to do. I have yet to play HL2 beyond the opening train station. It had it's chance.

The fact that ordinary users are being given access to the latest build of the game is to me quite astounding, just the same as the fact that the games ships without protection and you don't ned to keep the CD in the drive. I've had many rocky encounters with video games, and computer software in general, usually it's problems with the copy protection, (as was the issue with HL2) but never before have I been motivated to comment on what I saw as good customer service.

Well done that small furry mammal
on Mar 06, 2006
dupe, sorry.
on Mar 08, 2006
Thanks for the Stats

Just when I thought I was something special - Part of the elite 2.5% that crashed on start-up I find I am in fact part of the 99% which was fixed by changing the desktop resolution.

Part of what I like about the company is that it allows questions re what has gone wrong and tries to fix it regardless of how stupid some of us are re. following orders. It is why I have recomended the game to others and am not concerned if there are some bugs because in the past there has been excellent after sales service and the games have only been improved with time. If it is wrong it is fixed or a reason why given. Based on this when the above happened I was not concerned but read the posts. In other situations with other companies I have immediatly returned the game as I had no belief/ confidence in any any response whatsoever

Ah well back to killing humans...