Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
Streamlining
Published on March 19, 2006 By Draginol In GalCiv Journals

One of the things that bugs me and bugs others is that some of the numbers, especially for abilities, get morphed when they're factored into your production. That's from play balancing and such.

But now that the game's been out a couple weeks, we have been able to play around with the values based on how people play.

For instance: Abilities.

The way research, social production, and military production are going to work is that players will see X% increase in their production.  Half of that production will be "free" (i.e. won't be charged) and the other half won't.

But to go along with that, we're going to tweak the starbase mining modules as well as the starting abilities.  But this way, players will see a much more direct correlation between what they're picking and what they're seeing.

Another area we're going to be tweaking is how much factories and labs produce. We're going to "nerf" these a bit. But before anyon panics, understand that the buildings are doing less because the abilities are providing more of a bonus AND because social production now goes into military production.  The effect of that is that we're seeing units getting cranked out a lot faster. So we're trying to keep the pacing the way people like it and not have things go crazy.

While in the starbase module area, we're going to make some tweaks to influence modules. First, resources will lose a bit of their power on their own but the abilities (like I mentioned) are more important. So not much of a net change there.  However, the first influence module you add will be very expensive.  However, after that, they'll be free.  It's just tedious going through a bunch of piddly "pay X" modules where X is not very large.  In addition, we're going to decrease the # of modules a bit but make the remaining one more powerful.  The effect should be that it'll require slightly fewer constructors to get your cultural conquest going. 

Overall, the goal is to streamline some of the statistical game mechanics so that you can focus on your strategies and less on number crunching.  We'll have a beta of this out this week and you'll be able to give us some feedback on those numbers.

But I do want this build (1.1) to be the build that we stop playing with these numbers so that people (fan sites, wiki pages, etc.) can table-ize this stuff.


Comments
on Mar 19, 2006
That all sounds good to me Looking forward to trying it out....
on Mar 19, 2006
I like the sound of those changes.. "w00t!"
on Mar 19, 2006
Frogboy i'm one of the players which need that all formulas,number and infos are shown in the game.I hope that one day courage,loyalty and advantage factor are explained somewhere.Economy, research, production are the most important part of the game. But having a race in which there are some abilities which aren't explained is really pissing to me.Torians are the most important example +10 loyalty (?) +10 courage (?) population growth +30 (bugged) morale +10 or 20 (formula that give headache).
on Mar 19, 2006
The tweaking I'd like to see is this: as it is now, the investment in Research Academies, Industrial Sectors, & other high-level improvements is ungodly, but yet the bonus isn't that great. You spend all that upgrading a Research Center to an Academy, for just 2tp?

Also, I find Economy Starbases a lot of fun to build. However, I don't often build them. I don't have the money. If the bonus production can be used to save money, that would be great. I have a lot of fun building Econ starbases, but a hard time applying them to a real game; or at least, to a game I haven't pretty much won already.
on Mar 19, 2006
Congrats and keep up the good work

I only have one little concern regarding the ( influence ) modules tweaks: if you intend to bring a better gameplay balance and path variety among the AIs, since I find them pretty much emphasize the influence path ( particularly with 1.0X ). When trying to reach any kind of victory, the human player must wage a nigh tedious cultural war against a later nemesis unless being a warmonger for an early conquest victory.
on Mar 19, 2006

Marioflag: The manual states what the various abilities mean.

Population growth does work in 1.0X. It'll work even better in 1.1 now that population growth has been slowed down.

on Mar 19, 2006
Frogboy i'm very sorry about population growth bonus i have used thalan and torians and as you say bonus function perfectly i have totally miscalculated previously .Also about courage i didn't see it explained before again sorry.

Just 2 question to leave any doubt on loyalty and courage abilities.In the manual is stated that:
Courage gives a bonus to the attack value of your ships when you're fighting against an opponent who has a higher score than you.the degree of the advantage is based on how far ahead your opponent is.
For higher score is meant the overall attack of the ship for example: (beam attack 3, missile 3, mass driver 3= 9)??
Also assuming that i'am a korx with +10 courage.i have a ship with 10 beam attack and 10 missile attack my enemy 100 beam attack. how it's applied in this battle?

About loyalty let's assume i play as yor with +100 loyalty
my planet produce 10 ip points for week an enemy planet in the same sector of mine produce 20 ip points for week and they're colonized at the same time.Considering that loyalty reduce the influence of other civilizations on my planets
in the parenthesis it should appear the number 1.00 due to bonus loyalty without loyalty bonus foreign influence should be 2.00 am i right?
Again sorry about my previous mourn but it was based on miscalculations and wasn't meant to offend or trolling.The next time i will be more careful.Thank you for any help
on Mar 19, 2006
A suggestion ...
You might consider diminishing returns for multiple resources.
Owning two influence resources is currently significantly more powerful than owning one.
Owning three influence resources pretty much ends the game as no one can withstand the influence onslaught. Even when you don't have much focus on the influence techs.

But owning 2 or 3 influence resources is not that uncommon in huge and gigantic galaxies...

So, maybe making the second influence base only provide half as much of a benefit? And the third a quarter as much?
You'll never be better than the original two influence base limit, which will still requires people to build influence bases to
achieve victory... Much more fun.
on Mar 20, 2006
Thanks Frogboy, the changes sound good.

Will you also look at upgrade costs when you rebalance the factories/labs, as started by tetlytea in #4?
The huge costs can make it nearly impossible to get a planet re-started after conquest, since your factories/labs can take ages to complete.
on Mar 20, 2006
The way research, social production, and military production are going to work is that players will see X% increase in their production. Half of that production will be "free" (i.e. won't be charged) and the other half won't.
But to go along with that, we're going to tweak the starbase mining modules as well as the starting abilities. But this way, players will see a much more direct correlation between what they're picking and what they're seeing.


Are the abilities you mention above only the racial abilities? Or will capitols also give 50% free? It looks as though you imply that SBs will give 50% free, is that also correct?

Though how will that 50% free be applied? If you have a capacity of 20 and a 50% bonus (assume 100% of capacity used for simplicity) does that mean you will get 30 units but only pay for 25?

on Mar 20, 2006
f
on Mar 20, 2006
please don't stop playing with the numbers until the game is a balanced as it can reasonably expected to be. wiki sites and such can always update their info.