Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
How multiplayer impacts design
Published on April 23, 2006 By Draginol In GalCiv Journals

Last week I wrote about whether strategy games need multiplayer.  There are definitely strong feelings on the matter.

In the article, I referred to blogs written by top reviewers Bruce Geryk and Troy Goodfellow.  I want people to understand something specifically -- I referred to them because they are top reviewers in their field. They did not take any points off of GalCiv II because it lacked multiplayer. They were putting forth the reason why many people are passionate about multiplayer in strategy games.

For the people who have a group of friends that they play multiplayer with, then a multiplayer feature in GalCiv II would be ideal.  And for those people, having multiplayer allows the game to have a much longer lifespan on their hard drives.  My favorite PC game of all time is Total Annihilation. But if it didn't have multiplayer, it wouldn't have survived very long on my hard drive. It was its multiplayer that made it so popular.

In many respects, what I'm writing about and what multiplayer advocates are writing about go right past each other.  My argument is that multiplayer advocates have plenty of options to choose from.  Not only have most strategy games of the past 5 years put a lot of energy into multiplayer (Age of Empire 3, Civilization 4, Rise of Nations, etc.) but even this year there will be turn based games with significant multiplayer components such as Space Empires V, Sword of the Stars, HOMM 5.  The developers of Sword of the Stars argue that putting in multiplayer has no negative impact on the single player experience.  I'll have to disagree.  In having either designed, developed or been heavily involved in Entrepreneur, Trials of Battle, Stellar Frontier (a multiplayer space game with the Drengin, Arceans and Terran Alliance btw), The Corporate Machine, and The Political Machine, (GalCiv being the only game I've done that isn't multiplayer btw), I think I have some experience in being able to say that yes, having multiplayer changes the way the game is designed.  When I designed The Political Machine, I imagined how it would be played multiplayer first and then wrote the AI as a simulated on-line opponent.  I think The Political Machine turned out pretty well as a single player game still, but it's a very different game than it would have been had it only been a single player game. I would have made it so that top players would have a lot more data and information to put together far more sophisticated strategies.

Making GalCiv II have multiplayer as a checkbox is pretty easy. You could just send the saved game back and forth between players. But would people be satisfied with that?  Some would.  But even doing that adds time to the development schedule. It still adds budget, and you still have a bunch of other things that could make the experience non-ideal.  I'd rather a game decide what it wants to be. If you're going to have multiplayer, do it right.  And in my experience, doing it right means having multiplayer be part of the design.  In GalCiv II, we put in the piping so that we could do multiplayer later on.  But in terms of time and energy, we wanted to focus everything on making the single player experience satisfying.

The point on multiplayer isn't whether a strategy game should have it or not as much as what priority it should have in the development of a game.  Heck, if I had more development resources, I'd take the GalCiv II engine and make an RTS version of it. I'd love to see my designed ships up against someone else's in battle.


Comments (Page 4)
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on Apr 27, 2006
that's what I'm saying, Hotseat is just like singleplayer, only with your friends, esspecialy if humans play togeather, so everyone can wach what others are doing, and everybody have fun all of the time, they are watching combats, strategies, random events and everything, FUN!
on Apr 30, 2006
Multiplayer hotseat would require two options:

1) independent ship design to settle design issues before the game
2) option to share player designed ships dated _prior_ to the first turn.

Or design while you wait. The ship designer alone usually takes as long as a turn without the ship designer. With all the improvements to it since 1.0, it's as fun as the game itself.
on Apr 30, 2006
I think that one of the best parts of GalCiv 2 is that it doesn't have Multi-player. Not all games need or should have multi-player. In my opinion Multi-player detracts from the single player game and there is a huge market for the single-player game. Civ 3 was a wonderful single player game, Civ 4 is not as nearly as good a single player game - why? because they devoted their energy towards multi-player and left out some things that were good only on a single player game. I am an older player and do not have many friends who play. Now I could go on-line into the lobbies and "make" friends
I suppose - but I don't like the style of play of many who inhabit the lobbies. IP games is out because I don't know people who play that way. In some ways the MP community is a closed community, and unless you like the style - which is quit if I am not going to win, log on to a game knowing I have 15 minutes and then I have to leave then you are not going to fit in. I tried in the Civ 4 forums to create a group of players that would play a more mature style. Then when the game came out the I could not get into the lobby for more than a minute before it crashed. The first fix came out and I could play but the mature players were all doing either IP or PBEM. PBEM is just too slow for my schedule. I need to make a move more than once a week to stay in the game's mood. I am sure that the MP community is not big enough to support a MP version of every single game - there is more than enough market for single player only games.
on Apr 30, 2006

I just voted FOR the added cost MP expansion, but I imagine that I'd play almost all my games Single Player.

I like the game so much that having a way to play against others seems really appealing... but I suspect that I'd only get the chance to actually play against someone else very rarely. Same thing happened with MMORPGs... I couldn't group with a regular team because my hours were so erattic.

Nevertheless, I'd buy the expansion, at additional cost.

Galciv II is a GREAT game! Getting an expansion pack (preferably on the shelves) would get another round of reviews on all the game sites. I believe that would be a good thing. It would get more attention for the franchise.

The main reason I think the multiplayer would be a good thing is because of the reviews.

Most of them seemed to be:

Reviewer A:

I really liked Galciv II... I really liked... I really liked... It doesn't have multiplayer... I really liked... I really liked...

Reviewer B:

Despite having no multiplayer... I really liked... I really liked... I really liked...

Reviewer C:

I really liked... I really liked... Though every other game this good has multiplayer, Galciv II does not... I really liked...

It just got old for me.

You'd read a review, the reviewer loved it, but felt compelled to mention the lack of multiplayer.

Doing a multiplayer expansion would give the reviewers a good reason to put the title on the front page of all the game review websites again. It would also give them a way to communicate to people how fast the game is being updated with all the fixes and tweaks.

More publicity is a good thing. A new box on the shelf that gets you a new round of reviews, and that adresses the ONLY universal complaint about the game in the reviewer's universe?

It seems like a no-brainer.

Don't get me wrong. I love the game just as it is. Judging by the posts in this thread, so does everyone else.

But we are the converted. The faithful.

If you guys can get this game on more people's hard drives, I'm all for that. And I believe that a Multiplayer expansion pack could help do that.

on May 03, 2006
I personaly enjoy the game but would love a hotseat multiplayer option at least.

As it is I and a friend take turns managing various civilizations or one person will handle implementation on the shot term while the other person watches out for long term... stuff like that. It would be nice to simply have multiple players...

Games that have multiplayer, even basic multiplayer, stay on my system for a LOT longer simply from the dynamic of playing a game with friends.

BTW: I am from a pretty rare camp that thinks that coop play is the only thing worth playing. Most games (that I have come across) in the last few years have competitive multiplayer but no or very crummy cooperative play and those stay on my system for the shortest time (if at all).

There are only a few games that stick out in my mind as having had great coop play capabilities (usualy due to a challenging AI): UT (original UT not UT2k3 or 2k4), in team mode, humans vs AI, there went a few months; Starcraft (and this is still in our systems) though not as challenging anymore; Descent and Descent2 (Descent3 just sucked), various console games (toe jam and earl, halo, life force); Ground Control II (not a great game but noteworthy for having cooperative campaigns). Games that were good AND had multiplayer stayed on our systems for as much as a year or 3 (starcraft being the exception of having never left) while games that were good only stuck around for a month or 2 till the next potentialy good multiplayer game squeezed it out of my playlist. GalCivII is pretty darned good IMO but sans multiplayer it's a 2-3 month game tops. At least I will get my money worth out of it unlike most other games out in the last few years that weren't even good.

I suppose though that I can expect not to see even a checkbox multiplayer option for this given the poll. That's fine too since as I stated, I feel like I will get my moneys worth out of this game. Very few games fit that category multiplayer or no. Also worth nothing is I would have no problem slaping down cash for an expantion that featured multiplayer where as I probably wouldn't be slaping any cash down for an expantion lacking multiplayer as by the time such an expantion was completed I probably wouldn't be playing anymore. I might be wrong on that given how dedicated you guys seem to be.

another btw: My concept has long been that the most fun multiplayer games generaly had single player come first and then cooperative multiplayer was added (ie console games almost exclusively).

That's my take, thanks for reading, tried to keep it under a rant...
on May 04, 2006
i have one thing to say,
IF you make a multiplayer for GC2, make it hotseat.
I've played heroes III hotseat allot as well as single player.
GC2 has a great single player and hotseat would make it better.
However i know during combat it can take 5-10 minuts before i end a turn, cause i have to switch productions, make ships, make a battle plan, see my stats, talk to oppononts (computer), trade, etc etc etc.
i imaging that if i am in war, and the other human player playing the same game on another computer not, he needs like 10 seconds for a turn, i need 5 - 10 minuts. it will get boring for him very soon imo.
and that is only with 2 players and some computers, no imaging 8 human players.
it would take ages before 1 round is finished.
on May 04, 2006
I thought MP or at least a hotseat-mode should have been with the original game, because without hotseat is for me GalCiv 2 not really better than GalCiv 1 and it is somewhat useless that I can now play as whichever race I want or like. Maybe MP would need more coreshipdesigns or the coreships should get always automatic the newest and/or better ship components, but that would be also useful for SP, because I wouldn't have to spend so much time with the shipdesigner.

Darklor
on May 04, 2006
My personal preference would be to give it a high priority. I like to play this game but it gets boring without anyone to play with. I guess to understand this you need to know where I am comming from. I got started on these types of games playing VGA Planets, an old PBEM game. I loved MOO and MOO2 (MOO 3 was ok but I had alot of issues with it). I like pitting myself vs my friends for domination of the universe. Sure it can take alot of time to finish a turn based game with other players but it is emensly more enjoyable.

I see some technical difficulties with this, including additions/mods installed by one but not all of the players involved, but this is easily resolved, expecially once the Mods Directory is fully up and running.

I would like to see multiple types of multiplayer added with the ability to change the type on the fly. An example of this is that we start a game in either Hot Seat or head to head play. In the early game turns can go fairly fast. Then in the mid to late game as the time to do your turn increases because of number of planets and ships to manage increase (or when some of the players net to go fo RL needs) then switch the game to PBEM game to be concluded at everyons leasiure.
on Jun 19, 2006
Not only would I personally buy a MultiPlayer expansion pack, it would cause me - and a few I know - to buy the game itself.

The *only* reason I've held back this long, is the lack of multiplayer.

I recently got into the demo despite this, and have enjoyed playing around with the game. It has a lot going for it. But beyond even this, I the philosophies of these devs, their obvious dedication to their fan base, the level of information they present. They are a model that I dearly hope others would follow. These are the sort of devs that make you want to support them.

But unfortunately, I don't have the kind of money to throw onto a game which would in reality last me only a few weeks, and perhaps quick twiddle with major patch releases to see what was different.

An MP expansion, especially if it were to include TCP/IP simultaneous play mode rather than only PBeM would change all that. It would be a done deal, a must purchase, and I think this would place GalCiv2 back on a lot of front pages around the various gaming networks.

In any event, I deeply respect the Dev team at Stardock, and I wish them well no matter what happens with the MP expansion. If I need to wait for GalCiv3, then so be it. MoO2 emulated via Kali will have to suffice til then. But please god don't do that to us!

Take care,
-Naithin,.
on Jul 08, 2006
I vote for multiplayer. I feel that any possible feature that has this much discussion on it should be added at some point. I can't wait for the expansion even though it doesn't have multiplayer. I would be willing to pay for multiplayer on some sort of expansion or subscription method. I understand your point about keeping priorities straight as I develop software (ERP) as well. It is a very difficult balance that you have to maintain. One method that we have implemented is an application program interface (API) that allows our customers to add functionality to the program. Implementing multiplayer is a task but I also think that several of your forum members have the skills to rough something together. I will volunteer my time to the effort.
on Jul 14, 2006
Redundant, but I'd hate to see multiplayer take away resources from the single player game in any GC title. And any multiplayer mode would have to have a lot of flexibility in players dropping in and out and modes ala Pit Boss for Civ4 to have a hope of finishing anything but a small small game due to the nature of the series.
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