Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
Respecting dissent is a two-way street
Published on May 31, 2006 By Draginol In War on Terror

Why is it that the group that claims tolerance and open-mindedness as its mantra so intolerant and close minded in practice? What I speak of is the political left's tendency to interject their political beliefs into every venue that they can while at the same time, actively working to prevent those who disagree with them from having the ability to express their beliefs.

If I watch the MTV Music Awards, I can expect to have some left-winger denounce the war in Iraq.  If I was the Oscars, I can expect to be treated to more anti-US policy rhetoric along with some environmentalist ranting from someone who gets around by personal jet. If I watch Comedy Central or go to a concert or buy a music album or even play an on-line game without someone telling me that their point of view (always the left-wing point of view) is the only "correct" view and those who disagree with them are mean or cruel or more commonly "ignorant".

On PowerUser.TV, we recently discussed how an anti-war protester was protesting in the video game "America's Army" (a game made by the US military as a game/recruitment tool).  My response was that that user has every right to do that.  But I did note the irony that the US military allows the protester their say while left-wingers work nation wide to ban military recruiters from publicly funded campuses.  Tolerance, apparently, is a one-way street.

During the segment, I argued that this sort of thing tends to backfire because it is just another example of anti-war opponents trying to shove their views down the throats of everyone else and few people like that. I mentioned that I happen to support US action and that there had been some pretty positive results in Iraq that seem to be forgotten (20 million people no longer living under Saddam, free elections, etc.).  I never implied that I supported US action because I thought we should "liberate" Iraq. 

In response, on the PowerUser.TV comments a number of people complained about my beliefs.  In fact, they universally used the word "ignorant" to describe my views.  Apparently, ones knowledge on a subject is dependent on how closely your opinion matches that of a left-winger.  The more you disagree with a left-winger, the more ignorant you are.

The left loves that word "ignorant". It is their way of smugly dismissing people's opinions without having to really consider them.  The people insulting me on PowerUser.TV don't know me. They have no idea how much I know or don't know.  All they know is that I mentioned, very briefly, that I happen to support US military action in Iraq. That's it.  That was enough for them to decide that I'm "ignorant".

Anyone who has bothered to look into my background, what I've done and written and especially anyone who knows me personally I suspect will conclude that I'm not "ignorant".  The problem with so many on the left is that they cannot accept that intelligent, well educated, well informed people might have seen the same things they've seen and come to different conclusions.

If I discuss that topic with people who disagree with my conclusions about liberals/left-of-center people, I usually get some sort of moral equivalence argument. Someone will point out Fox News or some right-wing whacko.  If you point out Michael Moore you get Ann Coulter thrown in your face.  But the pattern is usually something that can most charitably be described as "Look at these hundreds of examples" with moral equivalence being "Oh  yea, here's a counter example" as if that makes the two things equal. 

You would be hard pressed to find truly equivalent examples of right-of-center people forcing their views on others. A left-winger watching Nascar doesn't have to worry about one of the drivers coming out and saying "And those of you who don't support the war, you are ignorant cowards."  Even during the heated recent election, right-wing celebrities didn't go on and say "Yea, the John Kerry is a fucking idiot." (the way several celebrities did to Bush or Bush supporters). 

And as we see on that PowerUser.TV thread, it's not me or right-wingers going on and saying how ignorant or cowardly or stupid or uneducated left-wingers are.  What's really ironic is that the left's response to the segment proves the point.  Center of right people (such as myself) are regularly subjected to left of center dogma in inappropriate venues. But we don't riot about it. We don't try to shout down those who do it. We get annoyed about it and that's about it.  That I even mentioned my position (not even making a much of a case for or against the war in Iraq) brought out more posts than any show we've had all using the word "ignorant" and some of them saying things like "Well those people protesting the war are just trying to wake you up."

Apparently, some opinions are simply the "correct" opinions. Those who disagree are "ignorant" and need to be educated. Incorrect opinions need to be subverted, buried, hidden and those who have those opinions shouted down and shamed.  The problem with that strategy, in a democracy, is that the voters tend to have the last laugh. Americans don't take kindly to bullies.


Comments (Page 4)
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on Jun 01, 2006
I believe it has been said, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."
on Jun 01, 2006
45 by Dr. Guy
Thu, June 01, 2006 6:20 PM


I have yet to see anyone from the right side of the aisle use a funeral{Coretta Scott King


Paul Wellstone. To name another


who? where did he do it? ands at what funeral, was he joined in by many others in condemning something?
on Jun 01, 2006
I think a better idea would be for YOU and YOUR condescending attitude to take that vacation in Iraq
and see what has and hasn't been accomplished. Billions of dollars and thousands of lives are gone.
What have we gotten so far?


Thanks The PC Guy, I've been there (and a few other places in my 24 year military career). I know what it's accomplished...nothing. These are the people that riot and kill over a traffic accident. That's how most of them should be treated. The trouble is we coddled them too much. If the Germans or Japanese were not defeated so ruthlessly, and slowly it would have been the same. War is to quick and painless now to frighten people from making it. So now that ME and My condescending attitude have had their Iraqi vacation...why don't you book your's?

on Jun 01, 2006
So now that ME and My condescending attitude have had their Iraqi vacation...why don't you book your's?


No, it's not my war. And, I'm way too busy dancing around, spreading daisy petals, teaching everyone about the liberal happy happy joy joy philosophy and trying to get them to watch old re-runs of All in the Family so that we can all blindly follow televangelist Rob Reiner and his merry gang of liberal do-gooders over to Michael Moore's house. It's too bad Caroll O'Connor can't be there to join us.



Once there, we are going to scheme and plan how to take control of everything and create a huge deficit while raising taxes as high as we possibly can. If anyone causes problems, we are going to grab them and pull them close. We will just hug them until they understand the err of their ways. That's what us bleeding heart liberals do.



We will promptly order any soldier who is either liberal or Democrat home. That shouldn't be too hard as most of us happy happy joy joy left wingers don't sign up for the military anyways. We are too enlightened and we just don't have the courage. We get offended when we see people playing'Duck Hunt"! For the ones we do bring home, we will promptly take them to either Massachusetts or San Francisco. From there, we will make frequent trips for guest appearances on any show that we think the "Right" may be watching. Once we find our way on stage, (it's hard when you're in the dark all of the time), we will spread our beautiful butterfly wings and sing the praises of all that is good and true and left wing. And, yes. The left wing of the butterfly will be prettier. I know, it's just not fair.



If you try and stop us, we'll.....we'll.......we'll..........well I don't know what we will do but it won't be nice. We can be real bullies when we want to be! When we bully you, don't try to talk to us at all. You bunch of rednecked bible thumpin' uneducated people. We are much smarterer then you end we don't lyke it when ewe point out fax tu us!



Yes, get used to it. It is always going to be US doing anything that you don't like. We have strategery meetings to figure out our next moves..... as history is replete with one adversary misunderestimating the other and suffering the consequences. Well that won't happen here. No sir-ee Bob Dole!



Once we re-gain the Whitehouse, we are going to color it in beautiful pastels and throw a huge party with all of the leaders of the most evil countries we can find. And then, we'll shower them with love, blessings and all of the money we can steal from the rich! They will become enlightened and apologize for doing such terrible things. Oh, Joy!



We will ban all religion because, after all, best selling author Ann Coulter had us pegged dead to rights. We hate religion. Not a one of us attends church.



In God we trust will be taken off currency as will the former tyrant presidents and will be replaced with a wonderful rainbow! In front of that rainbow will be a married gay couple waving French flags with the words "In welfare we trust". Money won't be green anymore either. It will be pink and, it will have yellow stripes to match our bellies.



Capitol hill will become "Broke Back" hill. The "House" will become the "quaint little cottage" and the Senate will become the Sin-it.

Get it.....Senate.....Sin-it? Oh, we are so smart!



I have to go now, I have a beautiful ToeFu dinner waiting for me in my tree house. (Afterwards, I just may treat myself to a lavendar bubble bath with lots of lit candles) (Oh, the bubble bath was never tested on animals and comes packaged in a Hemp container).



There you go. You have exposed us.

I'm sorry liberal lefty's. The truth is the truth and I just cannot handle the pressure anymore.



on Jun 01, 2006

TheGuyPC - you can quote someone typeing "quote" and "/quote" with brackets around them.

Then it is much easier to read
.

on Jun 01, 2006
Thanks Brad.

I was wondering about that.
I have it fixed now!
Sorry to hear about your server going down. I'm suprised you still have everything up and running so well.
I barely even noticed a glich.

It will be nice when the new one is all set up.
on Jun 02, 2006

who? where did he do it? ands at what funeral, was he joined in by many others in condemning something?

It was at his funeral.  Senator from Minnesota.  The Dems had an orgy fest, so much so that Jesse Ventura walked out on it.

on Jun 02, 2006
Yeah, anyone with any sensibility has to admit that the funeral was an embarrassment.

Senator Wellstone was very popular here though. Emotions were running very high. Noone ever thought that he would die so tragically.

That's no excuse for what transpired, but a bit of an explaination.

As far a Jesse Ventura walking out goes, who cares. That guy was a bigger embarrassment then the funeral.

The Coretta Scott King funeral was, I believe, bad all the way around. As far as I'm concerned Bush was just using it for a nice photo op. and political opportunism. It didn't work out so well for him. But again, to turn a funeral into a political bashing is unexcusable in my book.

I think it's more a symptom of having a whole class of people basically shut out. It's rare that they get an opportunity to voice their opinion to a wide audience, so they took it. I didn't agree with it, nor would I have chosen that course of action, but it wasn't for me to decide.

One would think that President Bush's people would have been able to see that coming a mile away. Honestly, when I turned that on and saw him there, I was stunned. I think that some people there took his presence as a bit of an insult.

Democrats would do well to leave funerals and other "social" gatherings alone. It's not the time or the place. It's disgraceful.

Now, back to spreading love and joy amongst the masses! Crap! I'm running out of Daisy petals. Oh well. Happy happy joy joy!
on Jun 02, 2006

Democrats would do well to leave funerals and other "social" gatherings alone. It's not the time or the place. It's disgraceful.
That is exactly what Brad has been saying.

One would think that President Bush's people would have been able to see that coming a mile away. Honestly, when I turned that on and saw him there, I was stunned. I think that some people there took his presence as a bit of an insult.
Why would they or should they?  Are you saying that "President Bush's people" shouldn't be able to pay respects and expect nothing else from others?  That is pretty sad if that is the case and indicative of the problem.

Bush would be damned either way.  If he didn't go he would be judged as snubbing african americans and he gets this kind of response for going.  I believe he had genuine respect for the Kings and did what he felt was proper.  Anyone who likes to hate Bush always just throws the "photo op" flag whenever he does anything.  That's fine, I'm sure people say the same about Dem politicians.  After all, it's what politicians do.

I could never run for political office because A) I don't suck up and pander and when people criticized what I was doing I would respond with a "Step up to bat yourself or sit down and shut the hell up".  It is far easier to sit back and judge than to actually step up and do something.  Everyone who has ever taken a role of leadership will attest that no matter what you do, it will be met with plenty of bitching from people who haven't actually ever done anything themselves.  That holds true for absolutely every level of organization out there.  

 

on Jun 02, 2006

Why would they or should they? Are you saying that "President Bush's people" shouldn't be able to pay respects and expect nothing else from others? That is pretty sad if that is the case and indicative of the problem.

I was going to grab onto that, but glad you did.  But I will add that sounds very racist to me. 'Bush's People'

on Jun 02, 2006
Where exactly are the human shields now?????

Don't they know they are needed to protect the Iraqi citizens from the terrorists?

Silly me, I assumed they were principled anti-war, anti-violence activists. Most of them are typical of the Left in America. They aren't actually anti-war! They were nowhere to be seen when we sent soldiers and bombers to Bosnia or bombed Iraq during the Clinton administration. But suddenly, war (when waged by America on its enemies) is wrong when a Republican is President!

"This post and subsequent comment are all stick and no carrot. You expect what you yourself are not willing to give."

Huh? I didn't get that post at all. If you know anything at all about the American Left's treatment of dissenting opinions on college campi around America, then you know Brad is speaking hard truth. The gist of that post is Brad just has to 'take' it, and accept the widespread phenomenon he is addressing.

I live in Austin where there are still a high percentage of John Kerry bumperstickers, as if there is some chance he might still win the election. These same cars have the anit-W sticker or stickers calling the President an idiot, and other stickers that imply you are an idiot if you support the President or the war or tax-cuts, etc. In the surrounding conservative Hill Country of Texas, I have yet to see an anti-Kerry sticker. I don't see any anti-Liberal stickers at all.
on Jun 02, 2006
I was going to grab onto that, but glad you did. But I will add that sounds very racist to me. 'Bush's People'


What? Racist? Where in the hell did you come up with that?

I don't know what you call the people that set up his security, transportation, local appearances and all things involved with it. What does that have to do with race at all? His "people", as do the "people" for ANY president, typically analyze any situation the president is likely to encounter. My point was, simply, with the tone that the funeral had, you would have thought that his "people" would have picked up on that prior to what happened and saved him the embarassment. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I was just suprised.

Personally, I can usually tell where I'm not wanted. There are many ways to pay your respects. Personally attending a function that is politically opposed to many of the policy's the president promotes seems a tad risky.

If you are insinuating that I'm black and, therefor biased, your dead wrong. I'm white. And I would call YOUR remark racist sounding.
Frankly, I don't have the slightest idea what you are thinking.

Human shields? Bumper stickers? WTF? What were there 20 or 30 "human shields"? Those morons were traitors, I don't care who you OR they believed they were associated with. You just assume that they in any way represent me or my views?

And, if you wish to restrict free speech by banning political bumper stickers, you are not only forgetting the masses of "impeach Clinton" stickers and, other stickers that were disrespectful in many ways to the former president, but your in the wrong country. I'm sure you'll be the first one crying foul the next time an anti-dem sticker is prominent right?

You people are so Hell bent on giving no ground that you insult me when I agree with you? That's rational?

There are certainly right wing kooks.


There you go^^ The ONLY real concession offered by your side in this thread. It was immediately followed by a liberal bashing.

Hey, did any of you see that left wing liberal Newt Gingrich on t.v.
talking about how corrupt and skewed this administration is?
He openly offered his slogan "Had Enough?" to the Democrats.
It was on that liberal media outlet, Fox News if I remember right.
Us lefties, we just don't give up.

Good grief! The way you people act, you'd think that the hard left were in
complete control of the government. Not the Republican's.

Gosh, this is fun!

Now off to liberate the tropical fish at Walmart. Fa La, Fa La.



on Jun 03, 2006
I was once a very liberal and very active participant in our political system. But, after a nasty bout with breast cancer, I decided to say "to hell with it" and relax, read some Harry Potter books, listen to my IPOD, go to Europe a lot, and focus more on the doings of Brangelina and less on the doings of those inside the beltway.

I have been enjoying my travels; I quit my job as an executive secretary to the senior partner of one of the biggest lobby firms in the country; and I am now contentedly puttering about in the world of academia. Though I have not been to a "Dinner for Dean" or a "Democratic Coffe Klatch" in a while now (and I limit my news intake to one hour of NPR a day), I still pay attention to the trends. I find it fascinating that conservatives, who own the world right now, still think of themselves as victims of the left. That boggles the mind.

I have been reading this thread and nodding my head in agreement with "theguypc". I am amused at the anger and defensiveness of the responses to his posts. Making the point that partisan intolerance it cuts both ways is apparently "crazy liberal talk" now.

The original post, and the responses (and the summary dismissal of theguypc's rather moderate assertions that the whole argument is patently silly)just confirm my theory that there is a "script" to conservative (and uber-liberal) punditry: "Any view expressed that is in disagreement with my own is a victimization to my rights as an American. I will twist myself into a philosophical pretzel to make this point." Logical, reasoned statements mean absolutely nothing to this because the script must be stuck to. The idea that the folks who have control of all three branches of government, whose agenda has absolutely no hinderances could be victimized by anyone else's viewpoint is laughable. The idea that some idiot rapper expressing his dissent is "shoving his views down your throat" is hysterical.



Draginol: If you could step back from your original post and just take a look at the way this country works now and look HONESTLY at your post, I truly think you will find your post hysterically funny. You have been handing the opposition their asses for years now, your agenda will not be opposed by the supreme court, anything you want to happen is going to happen. This country is your oyster. Enjoy it, revel in it. We lost. You won. The War in Iraq is not stopping because Susan Sarandon or some protesting gamer doesn't agree with it. Military recruiters are not leaving publicly funded college campuses. SCOTUS just clarified that for us. The agenda that you hold to be valuable and important will go forward, whether Kanye West or Bono disagrees with it or not. That is a good thing, right?

Is your ideal country a country where no one says anything but what you agree with? Will you feel less victimized then? Not to sound alarmist, but I don't think you will have to wait long. I am not talking about jackboots and swaztikas and all that. I am talking about the general apathy of the opposition. There are way more people like me who are tired of fighting than there are people like Natalie Maines who continue to think that what they say actually matters.

However, I do think that you will end up just as discontented and unhappy with the results of your ideal country as Serena Joy in The Handmaids Tale - you will find that you have too much of what you want, but then it will be too late.

By the way, nice website. I have bought a ton of the skinning progs here.
on Jun 09, 2006
There are way more people like me who are tired of fighting than there are people like Natalie Maines who continue to think that what they say actually matters.

Could we add "TheGuyPc" in here somewhere weezie? Not that what I say actually matters.....but I like to think so.
Well, you ask George and get back to me.









(That wasn't racist sounding was it?)
on Jun 09, 2006
I find it fascinating that conservatives, who own the world right now, still think of themselves as victims of the left.


I don't know any conservatives who feel they are "victims" of the left and don't know where you got that. The problem with the liberals in discussion here is that they won't stand up and fight in an arena where they are actually going to have an opponent. If the conservatives were "victims", they wouldn't be requesting such a thing. Conservatives would just try to silence them all together like the libs like to do.

These libs who spout their agendas at concerts, award shows, etc. know that they aren't in for a debate in that arena. They are going to have unquestioned time to drop their political bomb and run. You don't see them showing up on Hannity & Colmes "discussing" their views for instance. I would be all for that.

Logical, reasoned statements mean absolutely nothing to this because the script must be stuck to.


This line cracked me up because I have felt the exact way about soooo many libs who spout their talking points and refuse to listen to any logical counterpoint.

As for the whole "you poor people who control everything" attitude, it merely smacks of the current definition of racism. That being the people who aren't in power have a free pass to say anything they wish and have it tolerated but those "in power" will say the same things and be labeled racist. So the libs have free reign because they are the underdog and the conservatives should just zip it and not complain about anything because they are "in control". What a bunch of crap all around.

That being said, I think anyone who feels proud of either side of American politics right now is a bit misguided. Both sides are so caught up in what will best move their agenda forward that it seems that what is realistically best for the country never gets considered.
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