Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
Raising the minimum wage paves the way for kiosks...
Published on April 4, 2004 By Draginol In Politics

The economy is a complicated thing. That is, as a general rule, I don't like politicians of either party monkeying around with it.  The average politician has virtually no understanding about economics. Often times, it's worse than no understanding -- often they have no common sense about it.

Let's use the minimum wage laws as an example.  To help those who make relatively little money, some people argue that we need to raise minimum wage.  So let's say we raise it to oh...$9. Now, I'm not going to bore you with statistics about the fact that most people who make low wages are employed by small businesses who would simply hire fewer people. I won't point out that such things help encourage outsourcing or hiring illegal immigrants. I won't point out that in the cases where it doesn't cost jobs it instead raises costs which are then passed on to us all in higher prices which put us back at square one.  These are all interesting but ultimately too debatable.

Instead, I'm going to use an example that most people, I think, can recognize the truth in.  Fast food.  McDonalds, Burger King, and other fast food restaurants employ approximately 12 million people. That's a lot of people. Most of them make between minimum wage and $8 per hour depending on where they live.

So let's say suddenly minimum wage jumped to $9 per hour. That's a huge cost increase for those restaurants. So what do you think they'd do? I'll tell you one likely solution: Kiosks. Been to a grocery store lately? Checkout lines at grocery stores were one of the first victims of the last minimum wage increases. At some point, a threshold is crossed and it becomes cheaper to have customers enter in their orders/purchases onto a friendly looking computer kiosk.

A typical shift at McDonalds consists of 10 people. Of those 10, half of them are dedicated to various degrees to taking orders.  Next time you're at a McDonalds, look at it again. How many of those people do they really need? I mean, how many could be replaced by a kiosk where people would simply enter in their orders, receive a print out of what they ordered and an order ticket, and wait for their order to be fulfilled?  I'd get at least 2 of those people could be replaced by kiosks. Probably 3 eventually as people become more comfortable with ordering via kiosks.

That's a 20% reduction.  Spread across the entire industry and you're talking 2.4 million lost jobs. Now, you might say that I'm over-reacting. But mark my words, raise minimum wage and that is what you're likely going to see. A wholesale movement to kiosks in the fast food industry.  It may happen anyway -- eventually. Like ATMs. Like what is happening at grocery stores (courtesy of the last increase in minimum wage). 

Minimum wage jobs are for entry level positions. Most of those positions are very low skill. Their competitors are other low skilled people but increasingly also from machines. Businesses will automate at the point where automation costs them less than hiring low-skilled workers. It's a very simple calculation for them.


Comments (Page 2)
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on Apr 04, 2004
The problem with those who advocate higher minimum wages is that they really don't seem to be that concerned about whether it actually solves a problem.They just want to be, like Everett, showing their compassion. Never mind if raising minimum wage will toss people out of jobs and turn them into dependents.


No, it has nothing to do with 'showing compassion' and everything to do with trying to help stop the bleeding from America's middle class. Us liberals are peculiar in that way. We don't worry about that hypothetical welfare dependent who decides to rebel against human nature and pursue a career of laziness. We worry about large statistics and broad social observation, such as those that show the tax burden of middle income families increasing; such as those that show the income ratio between the richest 20 percent and the poorest 20 percent widening beyond that of any other modern industrial democratic nation; such as those that show that while it becomes harder and harder for more people to attain a median income, the cost of elections is skyrocketing... and voila... skull and bones or skull and bones. I'm not in favor of large increases to minimum wage, but I think we had ought to tax the living sperm out of big corporations who are paying CEOs ungodly salaries and accumulating massive wealth for the richest 1% of Americans. And we had ought to distribute that wealth into our public schools and provide government that is more responsive to the needs of average Americans.


on Apr 04, 2004
Let’s face it, the reason businesses open up every day is for one purpose, to maximize profit, not to feel “compassion” for humanity.
on Apr 04, 2004
Here is the deal. I work at a fast food place called White Castle. The intake we are supposed to achieve is $32.00 that is $32.00 dollars an hour per hour for each worker. One average it is achieved The resturant I work at makes between 32,000 and 35,000 a week. That is about 1.7 million a year. Even at that the labor cost is about 25% of all of the costs. We are open 24 hours a day and we have at the most 8 to 10 employees on a shift. But the people talking about the kiosks are wrong especially at my restraunt.. We only have 2 sellers at the most. One on drive-thru and one for the inside. On midnights when there is only 3 or 4 employees. The kiosk thing would really not work since most of the people from 1am to 5am are so drunk that they have a hard time speaking let alone using a kiosk. We are in a very competitive area where in the last 5 years 4 other fastfood restraunts have opened within a block. We employ less people than we did 5 years ago whe n we did about 50% more business than we do now. There is also a large amount of shopping in the area. Minimum wage is 5.50 in the state where I live. To bring in good workers the starting wage is $7.00. and the minimum wage is being raised on 1/1/2005 to 6.50 so they are going to raise our wages. I am actually thinking about leaving this job and going to the street where I can start out at $9.00 and hour. And that is the reason why the wage is higher than minimum wage to get people to stay and to get poeple to apply at my restraunt.
on Apr 04, 2004
There are companies who do both, treat their workers well and make money. One of them is Ben and Jerry's.
on Apr 04, 2004
Now that's what I call word of mouth advertising:)

~Dan
on Apr 04, 2004
Now, Brad, I'm actually, sortof agreeing with you.

Cheers
on Apr 04, 2004
No, it has nothing to do with 'showing compassion' and everything to do with trying to help stop the bleeding from America's middle class


Are middle class workers making minimum wage? If not, then how will raising it help them?
on Apr 05, 2004
There is probably lots of propoganda out there that can "prove" that a higher minimum wage is bad for business.

I am no economist, but it seems to me that the companies that can afford to employ basically unskilled workers at minimum wage are just trying to get by "on the cheap." A higher minimum wage may cut into profit margins, but I doubt it would be that noticable.

It may be a good compromise to keep the minimum wage low for employees who are able to make a minimum amount of tips, but raise the minimum wage for those workers use their salaries (without tips) to support themselves and their families.

If one of a conservative mindset would claim that "the world needs ditchdiggers too." One would have to think that the ditchdigger consumer class deserves access to healthcare, housing, and at least some access to recreation. The money "given" to the lower classes will "trickle up" anyway, won't it?
on Apr 05, 2004
Does anyone ever actually read and think about other people's posts before they reply?
on Apr 05, 2004
I think that most of the people who are commenting on this specific topic need to take Business Princples 101. The one thing missing in this discussion is something called an operating ratio. The operating ratio of a company encompasses a large amount of space to write about, but least see if I can break it down to just a few things that are key to running a company. First is wages (salary, and hourly) on the average is somewhere around twenty-five percent. Then equipment (regardless of the type of business) is close to wages (this can be higher in some industries such as trucking, and aircraft manufacturing). Now we're up to 50% operating ratio. Now comes insurances (health benefits); this is hard to determine because each state along with the feds require different levels for specific jobs, so lets say at the low end may be 10%. This places us at 60%. There are other areas that can be added or subtracted depending on the type of work a company is performing. This I can tell you, and that is trucking company I spent twenty some years with (no longer in business—union forced us out) have a daily operating ratio of 89.7 to 95%. Oh, here is another important factor; replacement cost.

Pam
on Apr 05, 2004
I noticed that Saint Ying made the claim that the Middle Class has an 'increasing tax burden.' What stats have you been looking at? The rich currently foot >50% of the bill, and even if there's not enough income some of them buy bonds too, in addition to their income taxes. Brad's right, no CEO will give up their salary just to keep a few lower-level employees in work. I live in Longview, Washington State, and we used to have a huge mill industry. Over the past 5 years >1000 jobs have been lost just due to a loss of need in those factories because they simply didn't want to keep them employed. We had a huge aluminum smelter shut down too. People have to realize that where jobs don't require lots of education/training (I work at McDonald's, and making a Big 'n' Tasty doesn't require much training), those jobs will eventually dissipate as they're either (1) replaced, or (2) outsourced. It sucks for the people working, but for the rest of the USA who shop at Target and Wal-Mart it's good because it keeps prices down. I like low prices, and I like rollbacks, because I don't want to pay an arm and a leg for basic things. If that means someone loses their job, well that's tough, life isn't fair.
on Apr 05, 2004
Meh, It's sort of a vicious circle, I've got kiosks where I work, it does cut down the grunts, which is nice from my standpoint because a lot of grunts do exactly that, grunt. Why keep workers around that you are now required to pay a higher cost keep when they drive away more business because they're grumpy about their "low paying job"? As great as communism is, (and lord I wish it could be true), people are naturally competitive and want to be doing "better" than everyone.

The end result of a minimum wage increase? A bunch of people who just got a decent payraise, who 3 months down the road will be bitching about how they're not getting paid enough. And then that same crappy attitude makes the customers angry, and causes a loss in brand loyalty. The best ways to avoid loss in brand loyalty are to either find a better way to provide a consistant service the consumer's wants (new employees, the kiosk), or monopolize that market and take away the consumer's choices. If you want to solve the problem, you need to get rid of money. Good luck trying to pull that one off.

I have a quazi-minimum wage, semi-entry level job, and I'm happy there, in fact, I'm even advancing in the company. All goes well, I'll have my degree and work my way to an sales executive job in that same company. As for compassion, I consider myself a liberal-moderate and am more than happy to help those who are in need, but I plan on having a family to provide for, I'll worry about them first before I set off to save everyone else. I work very hard at my current job (in effort, not manual labor) and if I didn't feel I was being appreciated I'd leave like I did my last job. Any job provides experience, and that experience can be applied to a better paying, more fulfilling job. Regardless if it's more of a career "mountain" than "ladder", you still do the same thing to get to the top, climb.

If I had my way I'd march around with a group of heavily armed goons and take what I wanted, maybe burn the rest. Not to say I'd horde it all, I'd happily give to some poor bum if it'd make his life a little easier.

Not a bandit, not a "robin hood"-esque hero, I'd like to think of myself as a "reallocator of goods"

Then again, I also think that assassination's the highest compliment you can give someone. I'd be moved to think that I was such a pain in someone's ass that they sought professional help to remove me from this life.
If you think about it too, a professional assassination's not very painful, at least not like being tortured to death...
on Apr 05, 2004
The problem I see, and I'm relatively young, not as young as many on this post, but not old enough to have lived in the "Leave it to Beaver" world, but the problem I see, is that there is a serious lack of pride in the workplace. This goes on through all levels, from bagboys to sports stars. It's all about "the money" and not about doing a good job, or making a good product.

Cheers
on Apr 05, 2004

Jeb says: Now, Brad, I'm actually, sortof agreeing with you.

My comment about the emotional responses wasn't directed at you. Regardless of what position you take, Jeb, you always respond with class and intelligence so you can pretty much assume any epitepth I put in a response is never directed at you.

on Apr 05, 2004
I completely agree with jeblackstar

"the problem I see, is that there is a serious lack of pride in the workplace. This goes on through all levels, from bagboys to sports stars. It's all about "the money" and not about doing a good job, or making a good product."

That is the problem with people today. I work in fast food and I take pride in what I do. I try to make the food as fast as possible and make all of customers enjoy there vistit. Now I am not making much above minimum wage but I take pride in my work. Most of the other workers just don't care. They go just fast enough not to get fired which is a S*#T work ethic and attitude. They make it depressing to work with since you are trying hard to work and some of them are getting paid more and doing considerably less work. I try not to let it get to me and have a happy disposition.
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