Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
We are there for our sake, not their sake
Published on April 12, 2004 By Draginol In Politics

The war in Iraq is part of the war on terror. We are not in Iraq for the sake of the Iraqi people. Don't let those who favor military action in Iraq (or are against it) try to spin it that way. Our presence in Iraq has nothing to do whatsoever with how the Iraqi people feel about the United States.  Our soldiers are risking their lives in Iraq not for the sake of Iraqi's but for our sake. For the sake of Americans.

It is often easy to forget, with all this talk of "liberation" that at the end of the day, we invaded Iraq because we believed it was a threat to us. I always felt that those who opposed taking out Saddam were being incredibly naive and short-sighted. Eventually, had things continued the way they were going pre-9/11, sanctions against Iraq would have been lifted and Saddam would have had a free hand to covertly become a nuclear power.  Opponents of the war make great noise about the lack of WMD stockpiles.  But they seem to gloss over the fact that Saddam was quite clearly trying to put together the infrastructure to start cranking them out once sanctions were over.  The Kay report makes this quite plain.

Saddam's plan was pretty straight forward: Be a reasonably good boy until sanctions were lifted and the world looked the other way and then arm to the teeth with WMD so that 1991 could never happen again to him again. The next time he invaded someone he would have nuclear weapons to keep the allies at bay. That was the plan.  Terrorist organizations such as Al Qaeda worked very well into that strategy -- Al Qaeda would be the ultimate delivery system for such WMD.

Americans, contrary to what some in Europe seem to think, are pretty bright. We have a lot of common sense, as a culture. After 9/11 the calculus was pretty clear -- Al Qaeda would use any weapon available to murder Americans. And Saddam either had or planned to have weapons of mass destruction that he could, if he chose, provide covertly to these terrorists. At the very least, the very threat that he could do this could stymie US action in the middle east.

Let's take a quick look at the middle east.  Do you see Afghanistan on the right? See Iraq there in the middle? Other than Turkey, most of these nations are cranking out terrorists one way or the other. These terrorist have been doing horrific things for 30 years now. 

After 9/11 it became clear that we needed to deal with the underlying issue -- Islamic fascism. The question is, what exactly do you do? Why is it when you hear about terrorists killing innocent civilians, taking hostages, making declarations of war on the west, etc. that the people are from these countries in general?  This is a very small section of the world we're looking at here. What makes this part of the world different? Oil? No. Most of these countries have no oil. Victims of US "aggression"? No, the US has had very little involvement here (particularly relative to the Europeans who colonized and created these countries in the first place). So what is special?

The Bush administration came up with a term: Freedom deficit. These were nations where freedom was virtually non-existent. Many of these nations were corrupt and cruel. On the other hand, there are plenty of nations in Africa with corrupt and totalitarian rulers. Perhaps a combination of religion and higher GDP has produced fanatics with means.

And so the United States government looked at this map.  The first target had to be Afghanistan. It was the imminent threat. It was the failed nation state that Al Qaeda was based on thanks to the Taliban regime. The US's first priority after 9/11 was to remove the Taliban and disrupt Al Qaeda. That mission was accomplished (despite bitching and moaning from the left how it would be another "Vietnam" -- side note: Why is everything another Vietnam to the left? When I try to explain to my wife that I can't mow the lawn because it'll be another Vietnam she's unconvinced. But strangely Democrats think that most Americans will compare to Vietnam no matter what).

But what next? Remember - the goal in Afghanistan is accomplished already. Al Qaeda is disrupted. The Taliban is gone. And as bonus we are keeping the pressure on the top Al Qaeda leaders who are hanging out near the border region with Pakistan. The US decided it was time to look back at the map.

So who were the big sources of these violent fanatics?  The answer: Iran, Syria, and Saudi Arabia.  But how do you go after them? Logistically, we couldn't go after any of them. And politically Saudi Arabia is off limits.  But...BUT...there was Iraq. Iraq needed to be taken off the board anyway. Saddam had to go for plenty of reasons. Saddam should have been removed in 1998 by Clinton. But perhaps this could now be used to our advantage. We had dozens of UN resolutions against Iraq already. The legal case was already mature. Americans understood after 9/11 that Saddam had to go.  And look at the map closely. Which 3 countries border Iraq? Iran, Syria, and Saudi Arabia. And, Iraq did produce enough oil that we could afford to alienate Saudi Arabia if push came to shove.

If Saddam could be removed we would be eliminating a serious long term threat to US security. I know I didn't want my kids having to go over to Iraq to deal with a nuclear armed Saddam. Now was the time to do something about it. Momentum was in our favor if we could get rid of Iraq while people were paying attention to the seriousness of the threat. It didn't take a rocket scientist to conclude that Saddam, armed with biological or even nuclear weapons would probably have no problem covertly handing them over to fanatical Al Qaeda terrorists for their follow-up to 9/11.

And that is why we invaded Iraq. To remove Saddam first and foremost and if possible, for extra credit to create a stable, democratic, liberal Iraq. One that would, hopefully, serve as a beacon to its neighbors: Syria, Iran, and Saudi Arabia.  A successful Iraq would draw others to emulate it. And by doing so, drain the swamp of the fundamental source of terrorism.

That's why we are there in Iraq. We are there because we are trying to prevent future 9/11's.  With all the bitching about how Clinton and Bush should have stopped 9/11, it's amazing that those same people who bitch are usually the ones who argue against what we have done in Iraq.  For if in say 2010 Saddam's sons had smuggled a crude nuclear weapon to Al Qaeda who then used it in New York harbor to kill 250,000 Americans, these same anti-war people would be incredulously demanding why we didn't remove Saddam when it was politically feasible to do so. That's why it's hard to take people who are both anti-war yet believe Bush is somehow at fault for 9/11 seriously. They're not serious people.

Which is why it ultimately doesn't really matter whether the Iraqis want the US in Iraq. We're not there for their sake. We are there for our sake. It just so happens that our sake happens to provide the opportunity for Iraqis to live in a free, democratic and prosperous Iraq.

Our soldiers who fight in Iraq are not there to save Iraq. They are there so that their own children are not murdered en masse by nuclear armed terrorists. They're there so that their children don't have to go over to the Middle East to fight off some united Islamic Fascist republic.  We are there because in the long run, our soldiers are fighting to save the lives of thousands, or even millions of innocent lives. Every American solider is a hero. Sacrificing their own comfort to ensure our safety in the long run. They are giving up their today so that we have a safer tomorrow.

It is a nice side-effect that the citizens of those failed nations whose corrupt, evil leaders are being removed will end up befitting in the long run. But their benefit is just that -- a side effect. It is not the primary goal. Never forget that.

 


Comments (Page 2)
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on Apr 13, 2004
"One (of many) Presidential Daily (Intelligence) Briefs (PDBs), dated August 6th 2001, and a frequent theme in Rice's Q&A -- titled “Bin Laden Determined to Strike Inside US” -- is only the barest tip of a criminal iceberg. Rice's position that it was a speculative paper was beneath disingenuous and belied by the title itself. The commission's intense focus on that PDB alone, to the exclusion of many other more damning unclassified and available records, is an indication of its deliberate unwillingness to confront Rice or the administration on the simplest points that reveal the administration's guilt. Rice's impish smile, when asked several times if the PDB would be declassified, betrayed the convenient roadblock now accepted by panel and witness as something that will never come to light -- as if it were the only piece of evidence remaining to be explored. The big “What if?”"

It's so sad to see people getting all hyped about a document which gives no warning to the events of Sept. 11. Yet they make no mention about the first WTC attacks and the none response. Eight years of failures, eight years of terrorist attacks, and it's not even a concern by the liberal media.

on Apr 13, 2004
"What do you think the cost would be if Libya smuggles a nuclear bomb into New York Harbor in 2010?
Should we invade Libya? Why or why not?
What do you think the cost would be if Iran smuggles a nuclear bomb into New York Harbor in 2010?
Should we invade Iran? Why or why not?"

LIbya has given up it's WMD's and allowed for the U.S. to inspect his weapons programs. That was in direct response to the action taken in Iraq. Iran is on the list, and I'm sure all scenarios are being explored by the U.S.

on Apr 13, 2004
As HIillary Clinton and Howard Dean say, "the world is not any safer wtih saddam gone". Yeah right.

http://phoenix158.org/iraq/images/Saddam%20and%20WTC.JPG

on Apr 13, 2004
Eh, I don't think any country would be stupid enough to send terrorists with nuclear weapons into our country, because we'd give ourselves the right to level the whole damn country. Say Libya did it, well then we'd nuke Libya back to the Stone Age along with countries surrounding it. We've got a hell of a lot more nukes than anybody, so it's kinda weird to claim that a country could be stupid enough to do something like that. Especially North Korea, because even if they did start a war, they don't have the resources or the economic base (without China's involvement which would be very bad for China) to carry on a long term war which would pretty much end with us bombing every North Korean city we could find.
on Apr 13, 2004
"Saddam's plan was pretty straight forward: Be a reasonably good boy until sanctions were lifted and the world looked the other way and then arm to the teeth with WMD so that 1991 could never happen again to him again. The next time he invaded someone he would have nuclear weapons to keep the allies at bay. That was the plan. Terrorist organizations such as Al Qaeda worked very well into that strategy -- Al Qaeda would be the ultimate delivery system for such WMD."

Are you a mind-reader? Any proof that Saddam planned to acquire nukes? Maybe plutonium from Niger or some other fairy-tale?

Any proof of Iraq's links to al-Qaida? Maybe Atta meeting Iraqi intelligence agents in Prague or some other fairy-tale?

The neo-cons planned this invasion long before 9-11, long before they even came back to power. This is no secret. They wanted to install a pro-US, pro-Israel state in the heart of the Middle East. They wanted to control its oil supply. 9-11 was a convenient way to frogmarch Americans into supporting these imperialist ambitions.



on Apr 13, 2004
"Other than Turkey, most of these nations are cranking out terrorists one way or the other."

Cranking out? Terorists aren't produced on an assembly line. They're human beings who react to political and economic conditions by using violence. They are politically motivated.

The war in Iraq has not made America one iota safer. It has actually made the US a lot less safe. It is now a runnning sore in relations between the Islamic world and the West. How do you think Muslims around the world react when America bombs Baghdad killing thousands?

btw, I'm not saying that all would have been sweetness and light if Bush hadn't attacked Iraq. I am saying that the invasion made a bad situation worse.
on Apr 13, 2004
"The neo-cons planned this invasion long before 9-11, long before they even came back to power. This is no secret. They wanted to install a pro-US, pro-Israel state in the heart of the Middle East. They wanted to control its oil supply. 9-11 was a convenient way to frogmarch Americans into supporting these imperialist ambitions. "

Actually the Clinton administration made it offical U.S. policy for regime change in Iraq. The only problem with that is we had a President who wouldn't back his own plan. Do you really think a pro-American state in the MIddle East is a bad thing? Israel is the only country in that region that isn't full of wackos, and you would be against that? I'm sure you are against it because you are pro-terrorist, sorry, I mean pro-palestinian.

Here we go again with the oil and imperialist conspiracy theories again. Watch oout, the black helicopters are coming.

"The war in Iraq has not made America one iota safer. It has actually made the US a lot less safe. It is now a runnning sore in relations between the Islamic world and the West. How do you think Muslims around the world react when America bombs Baghdad killing thousands? "

Eliminating Saddam has made Iraq safer. Let's see, either we keep a brutal dictator who's ambition it was to take over the Middle East, or we remove that dictator. Hmmm......thats a tough one.

America didn't bomb Baghadad to kill civilians. We know the left likes to portray it that way, but once agian thats part of the Bush hating crowd. So we should never attack because we are afraid of what the muslims think? That sounds like a Clinton strategy. The real question is, "How do muslims react when terrorists kill Iraqis and other muslims?"
on Apr 13, 2004
Island, it's obvious from current events that Iraq is not exactly a state friendly to America in the Middle East.

Cheers
on Apr 13, 2004
"I'm sure you are against it because you are pro-terrorist, sorry, I mean pro-palestinian."

Ah! Foiled by your cunning wit! Why don't you go read some history? How do you think the Zionists got their own state in the first place? By asking nicely? Ever heard of the King David Hotel? The Stern Gang? Count Bernadotte?

"Here we go again with the oil and imperialist conspiracy theories again. Watch oout, the black helicopters are coming."

Look it's not a conspiracy at all - it's not a secret. The Project for a New American Century is not a secret organisation.
on Apr 13, 2004
" Island, it's obvious from current events that Iraq is not exactly a state friendly to America in the Middle East."

It was estimated there are about 1000 terrorists involved in the recent "events". How does that represent the millions of people in Iraq? It doesn't.

The terrorists and insurgents are a very small part of the population, they in no way represent Iraq as a whole.
on Apr 13, 2004
"Look it's not a conspiracy at all - it's not a secret. The Project for a New American Century is not a secret organisation"

A conservative think tank? I assume you are referring to the letter sent to Clinton that conspiracy theorists like to say "was the plan" to invade Iraq. It's almost funny when I type in pnac in google and ufo sites pop up. Left wing credibility at work .

Here is an excerpt of the letter that conspiracy theoriest like to use as basis for their accusation.

"We are writing you because we are convinced that current American policy toward Iraq is not succeeding, and that we may soon face a threat in the Middle East more serious than any we have known since the end of the Cold War. In your upcoming State of the Union Address, you have an opportunity to chart a clear and determined course for meeting this threat. We urge you to seize that opportunity, and to enunciate a new strategy that would secure the interests of the U.S. and our friends and allies around the world. That strategy should aim, above all, at the removal of Saddam Hussein’s regime from power. We stand ready to offer our full support in this difficult but necessary endeavor."

Wow. That is a conspiracy theorists treasure. That's all your propaganda is. Just conspiracies.

"Why don't you go read some history? How do you think the Zionists got their own state in the first place? By asking nicely? Ever heard of the King David Hotel? The Stern Gang? Count Bernadotte? "

So are you saying violence in the past is justification for palestinians using terror?







on Apr 13, 2004
Ahh, in the same vein, is violence in the past justification for the Israelis using terror?

Cheers
on Apr 13, 2004
island dog,

Again, it's NOT a conspiracy, it's not a secret. How many times do I have to write that before you stop accusing me of being a conspiracy theorist? The PNAC pushed for armed action against Iraq since 1997. Several of their founder members went on to become members of the Bush administration. The people who pushed hardest for the invasion of Iraq - Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld - were PNAC members.

"So are you saying violence in the past is justification for palestinians using terror?"

I didn't say ANYTHING about Palestine on this thread until your "pro-terrorist" jibe. Yes, I'm pro-Palestinian, this doesn't mean I'm pro-people blowing things up - that was your (probably deliberately) mistaken assumption.

The reason I mentioned pre-state Zionist terrorism is to attack your propaganda which tacks the word "terrorist" to the word "Palestinian" as if the two are inseparable and as if the Israelis are blameless.

on Apr 13, 2004
So are you saying violence in the past is justification for palestinians using terror?


I think he's saying that your little pro-terrorist quip could go either way, as both sides have used terrorism. your oh-so-smart comment wasn't really that smart at all.
on Apr 13, 2004
"Again, it's NOT a conspiracy, it's not a secret. How many times do I have to write that before you stop accusing me of being a conspiracy theorist? The PNAC pushed for armed action against Iraq since 1997. Several of their founder members went on to become members of the Bush administration. The people who pushed hardest for the invasion of Iraq - Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld - were PNAC members."

They pushed for action in Iraq because Clinton and the U.N. weren't doing enough. You are saying it's because of oil and imperialism, which is not the case hat is the conspiracy theory. Just because they saw a threat and saw that Clinton was an appeaser does not make it wrong. I wanted action after the frist WTC bombing. Does that make me an imperialist?

I was just responding to the assumption that a pro-American and pro-Israeli state in the Middle East is somehow wrong.

"I think he's saying that your little pro-terrorist quip could go either way, as both sides have used terrorism. your oh-so-smart comment wasn't really that smart at all."

I wasn't trying to make a smart comment, it looked to me like he wanted to justify palestinians using violence because Israel has done some.

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