Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
We are there for our sake, not their sake
Published on April 12, 2004 By Draginol In Politics

The war in Iraq is part of the war on terror. We are not in Iraq for the sake of the Iraqi people. Don't let those who favor military action in Iraq (or are against it) try to spin it that way. Our presence in Iraq has nothing to do whatsoever with how the Iraqi people feel about the United States.  Our soldiers are risking their lives in Iraq not for the sake of Iraqi's but for our sake. For the sake of Americans.

It is often easy to forget, with all this talk of "liberation" that at the end of the day, we invaded Iraq because we believed it was a threat to us. I always felt that those who opposed taking out Saddam were being incredibly naive and short-sighted. Eventually, had things continued the way they were going pre-9/11, sanctions against Iraq would have been lifted and Saddam would have had a free hand to covertly become a nuclear power.  Opponents of the war make great noise about the lack of WMD stockpiles.  But they seem to gloss over the fact that Saddam was quite clearly trying to put together the infrastructure to start cranking them out once sanctions were over.  The Kay report makes this quite plain.

Saddam's plan was pretty straight forward: Be a reasonably good boy until sanctions were lifted and the world looked the other way and then arm to the teeth with WMD so that 1991 could never happen again to him again. The next time he invaded someone he would have nuclear weapons to keep the allies at bay. That was the plan.  Terrorist organizations such as Al Qaeda worked very well into that strategy -- Al Qaeda would be the ultimate delivery system for such WMD.

Americans, contrary to what some in Europe seem to think, are pretty bright. We have a lot of common sense, as a culture. After 9/11 the calculus was pretty clear -- Al Qaeda would use any weapon available to murder Americans. And Saddam either had or planned to have weapons of mass destruction that he could, if he chose, provide covertly to these terrorists. At the very least, the very threat that he could do this could stymie US action in the middle east.

Let's take a quick look at the middle east.  Do you see Afghanistan on the right? See Iraq there in the middle? Other than Turkey, most of these nations are cranking out terrorists one way or the other. These terrorist have been doing horrific things for 30 years now. 

After 9/11 it became clear that we needed to deal with the underlying issue -- Islamic fascism. The question is, what exactly do you do? Why is it when you hear about terrorists killing innocent civilians, taking hostages, making declarations of war on the west, etc. that the people are from these countries in general?  This is a very small section of the world we're looking at here. What makes this part of the world different? Oil? No. Most of these countries have no oil. Victims of US "aggression"? No, the US has had very little involvement here (particularly relative to the Europeans who colonized and created these countries in the first place). So what is special?

The Bush administration came up with a term: Freedom deficit. These were nations where freedom was virtually non-existent. Many of these nations were corrupt and cruel. On the other hand, there are plenty of nations in Africa with corrupt and totalitarian rulers. Perhaps a combination of religion and higher GDP has produced fanatics with means.

And so the United States government looked at this map.  The first target had to be Afghanistan. It was the imminent threat. It was the failed nation state that Al Qaeda was based on thanks to the Taliban regime. The US's first priority after 9/11 was to remove the Taliban and disrupt Al Qaeda. That mission was accomplished (despite bitching and moaning from the left how it would be another "Vietnam" -- side note: Why is everything another Vietnam to the left? When I try to explain to my wife that I can't mow the lawn because it'll be another Vietnam she's unconvinced. But strangely Democrats think that most Americans will compare to Vietnam no matter what).

But what next? Remember - the goal in Afghanistan is accomplished already. Al Qaeda is disrupted. The Taliban is gone. And as bonus we are keeping the pressure on the top Al Qaeda leaders who are hanging out near the border region with Pakistan. The US decided it was time to look back at the map.

So who were the big sources of these violent fanatics?  The answer: Iran, Syria, and Saudi Arabia.  But how do you go after them? Logistically, we couldn't go after any of them. And politically Saudi Arabia is off limits.  But...BUT...there was Iraq. Iraq needed to be taken off the board anyway. Saddam had to go for plenty of reasons. Saddam should have been removed in 1998 by Clinton. But perhaps this could now be used to our advantage. We had dozens of UN resolutions against Iraq already. The legal case was already mature. Americans understood after 9/11 that Saddam had to go.  And look at the map closely. Which 3 countries border Iraq? Iran, Syria, and Saudi Arabia. And, Iraq did produce enough oil that we could afford to alienate Saudi Arabia if push came to shove.

If Saddam could be removed we would be eliminating a serious long term threat to US security. I know I didn't want my kids having to go over to Iraq to deal with a nuclear armed Saddam. Now was the time to do something about it. Momentum was in our favor if we could get rid of Iraq while people were paying attention to the seriousness of the threat. It didn't take a rocket scientist to conclude that Saddam, armed with biological or even nuclear weapons would probably have no problem covertly handing them over to fanatical Al Qaeda terrorists for their follow-up to 9/11.

And that is why we invaded Iraq. To remove Saddam first and foremost and if possible, for extra credit to create a stable, democratic, liberal Iraq. One that would, hopefully, serve as a beacon to its neighbors: Syria, Iran, and Saudi Arabia.  A successful Iraq would draw others to emulate it. And by doing so, drain the swamp of the fundamental source of terrorism.

That's why we are there in Iraq. We are there because we are trying to prevent future 9/11's.  With all the bitching about how Clinton and Bush should have stopped 9/11, it's amazing that those same people who bitch are usually the ones who argue against what we have done in Iraq.  For if in say 2010 Saddam's sons had smuggled a crude nuclear weapon to Al Qaeda who then used it in New York harbor to kill 250,000 Americans, these same anti-war people would be incredulously demanding why we didn't remove Saddam when it was politically feasible to do so. That's why it's hard to take people who are both anti-war yet believe Bush is somehow at fault for 9/11 seriously. They're not serious people.

Which is why it ultimately doesn't really matter whether the Iraqis want the US in Iraq. We're not there for their sake. We are there for our sake. It just so happens that our sake happens to provide the opportunity for Iraqis to live in a free, democratic and prosperous Iraq.

Our soldiers who fight in Iraq are not there to save Iraq. They are there so that their own children are not murdered en masse by nuclear armed terrorists. They're there so that their children don't have to go over to the Middle East to fight off some united Islamic Fascist republic.  We are there because in the long run, our soldiers are fighting to save the lives of thousands, or even millions of innocent lives. Every American solider is a hero. Sacrificing their own comfort to ensure our safety in the long run. They are giving up their today so that we have a safer tomorrow.

It is a nice side-effect that the citizens of those failed nations whose corrupt, evil leaders are being removed will end up befitting in the long run. But their benefit is just that -- a side effect. It is not the primary goal. Never forget that.

 


Comments (Page 3)
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on Apr 13, 2004
because you are pro-terrorist, sorry, I mean pro-palestinian


that wasn't an attempt to be a smart a** ???
on Apr 13, 2004
"the goal in Afghanistan is accomplished already. Al Qaeda is disrupted. The Taliban is gone. And as bonus we are keeping the pressure on the top Al Qaeda leaders who are hanging out near the border region with Pakistan. The US decided it was time to look back at the map."

i do not have the time to respond to whole article. but you might want to reconsider that statement. the Taleban are not gone. they (together with the Hezb-e-Islami) are still fighting in large parts of southern Afghanistan. the part of Afghanistan where the pipeline from Turkmenistan is planned to be built (planned since about fifteen years now).

Al Qaeda is disrupted? you mean they no longer have training camps in Afghanistan. of course somebody could still join some regular military for one or two years if he/she wants to learn how to use a gun. hey, there will be US instructors that will teach the new Afghan and Iraqi army for those who are seeking revenge for the bombings, they will teach then even better than some long-bearded fellows. on how to use a bomb no training camp in Afghanistan is needed, that is something everybody can learn at home reading some books. i doubt the overall use of these training camps anyways, they were more for recruiting than training. now that there is war Al-Qaeda is hardly running out of recruits.

so the US are looking back on the map? where is Osama Bin Laden? where is Mullah Omar? where is Gulbuddin Hekmatyar? and recent events show that General Dostum seems not be an US ally anymore as well (he is quite experienced being a renegade). it would go to far saying Iraq is chaotic, Afghanistan is though. just because few is reported in the US media does not mean there is nothing happening there.
on Apr 13, 2004
"he wanted to justify palestinians using violence because Israel has done some."

although i disagree with terrorrism, that seems to be a pretty good reason. remember only about 20% of the Palestinians are Christian and as history proves even those are not willing to turn the other cheek.
on Apr 13, 2004
island dog,

You're getting lost. First of all, it was, as shades points out, blatantly an attempt to be a smart-ass.

Secondly and more interestingly, you made the pro-terrorist quip back at reply 23. At that stage my only comment on Israel/Palestine was the following in reply 21:

"They wanted to install a pro-US, pro-Israel state in the heart of the Middle East "

But now you claim that the pro-terrorist quip was made in response to my mention of Zionist violence in reply 25. Let me repeat that in case anyone's confused. You claim that you called me pro-terrorist as a response to something which I hadn't yet written

So now, as well as pre-emptive wars, we have pre-emptive insults
on Apr 13, 2004
The problem is that Bush and Co. always say they're in Iraq to help the Iraqi people. Kind of goes against what the poster is trying to tell us. I'll listen to Bush's reasons before this poster's reasons. At least when it comes to US policies and its supposed causes.
on Apr 13, 2004
Sorry I got my quotes confused.

Now to clarify my posts. I wasn't making an insult at you. I associate palestinians with terrorism. That was the point of the pro-terrorist, pro-palestinian remark. It was not directed at you.




on Apr 13, 2004

i do not have the time to respond to whole article. but you might want to reconsider that statement. the Taleban are not gone. they (together with the Hezb-e-Islami) are still fighting in large parts of southern Afghanistan. the part of Afghanistan where the pipeline from Turkmenistan is planned to be built (planned since about fifteen years now).

...and? There are still Nazi's all over the world. I guess you believe we lost World War II also?

on Apr 13, 2004
I really quit reading this article after Deference said something about how they proved Iraq had disarmed.

"When it was discovered that the Iraqi government had destroyed all their “stockpiles” "

I'm sorry I guess I missed that news story.

The rest I've skimmed seems to be a battle going nowhere. I guess all I can say is has ignoring terrorists stopped terrorism? Haven't we been accusing the Bush administration of ignoring issues in the Middle East pre 9/11 and now it seems to be implied that the only reason they hate us is because we bomb them? I'm having troubles understanding the logic here, they will leave us alone if we leave them alone, but Bush caused 9/11 by ignoring them?
on Apr 13, 2004

BTW, anyone who watched tonight's news conference with Bush should be reminded -- I wrote my article BEFORE his news conference.

(basically Bush's news conference highlights many of the things I mentioned).

on Apr 13, 2004
The last sentence says it all. We only care about americans. Our so called Christian leaders don't mind that innocent women and children are killed as long as we are free. and so we establish another puppet government under our thumb as in 130 other countries where we have bases. Yes, the end time great city of Babylon is coming of age.
on Apr 13, 2004
It's selfish, but Americans aren't the only ones, and it's how the world has worked for centuries, if not millennia.
on Apr 14, 2004
Regarding Nukes, a Nuke is not the type of weapon a Terrorist would want to use. Whats the point? The point of terrorism is to make sure the opponent spends so much on defence that the economy colapses. Make the people so afraid they get rid of the leader etc.

The only Nation linked to supplying arms to Al-Queda and using nukes is the USA, and that was to achieve these 'terror goals' against the Russians.
on Apr 14, 2004
"Americans, contrary to what some in Europe seem to think are pretty bright" - yeah you demonstrated that by the way you elected your president, no problems there.
on Apr 14, 2004
Regarding Nukes, a Nuke is not the type of weapon a Terrorist would want to use. Whats the point? The point of terrorism is to make sure the opponent spends so much on defence that the economy colapses. Make the people so afraid they get rid of the leader etc.


The point is that you still have no idea what drives a terrorist. Why is it inconceivable that a terrorist would use a nuke when he is perfectly capable to fly himself to death in an airplane? AQ wants to hurt America, plain and simple. They are not working on a strict timeline, they believe vicory will be theirs if they just keep going and going and going. Being able to explode a nuke in the US would be their grandest achievement yet, and you'd better believe it. They are not concerned about repercussions. So what if America would respond by flattening a couple of countries? It would just expose America as the Evil Satan as they have always claimed it to be. The ones killed would go straight to paradise. It's a no-lose situation for them, this is what makes these terrorists so extremely dangerous.

The rest I've skimmed seems to be a battle going nowhere. I guess all I can say is has ignoring terrorists stopped terrorism? Haven't we been accusing the Bush administration of ignoring issues in the Middle East pre 9/11 and now it seems to be implied that the only reason they hate us is because we bomb them? I'm having troubles understanding the logic here, they will leave us alone if we leave them alone, but Bush caused 9/11 by ignoring them?


The underlying reasons for terrorism are much too deeply stamped in the minds and souls of all generations alive in many regions in the world to be wiped out by any US policy, may it be war on ignoring terrorism altogether. There is no quick fix. Could 9/11 have been stopped? Perhaps. But had 9/11 not happened, there would probably have been a 7/12 or a 10/21. Maybe not in '01 but in '07 or '12. America needs to recognise that it has made a lot of enemies in the world in the past couple of decades, some through its' own fault, some by chance, some by accident. It's up to the US to decide how to deal with it. The current method seems to be "close down access to the country and kill all threats we can find", but while this may have been initially gratifying after 9/11, it will not work in the long run. As was noted before, only more resentment is being breeded, with all repercussions for the decades ahead.
on Apr 14, 2004
"...and? There are still Nazi's all over the world. I guess you believe we lost World War II also?"

???? i don´t see any Nazis fighting in Germany or attacking US bases in Germany. btw: i did not say the US "lost" the war in Afghanistan. is said the goals are not accomplished already (unless creating a second Somalia was the goal of course). the post was short enough and should not have been that hard to understand.

"Other than Turkey, most of these nations are cranking out terrorists one way or the other. These terrorist have been doing horrific things for 30 years now. "

this is another part of your article that illustrates how little you know about terrorism and history. religiously motivated terrorism is a new phenomenum for Turkey, the people that blew up the synagogues in Istanbul were Turks. so much for the theory that bombing other countries is makes the world a saver place. besides religously motivated terror Turkey has a wide spectrum of terrorists. from politically motivated terrorists (from communists to the fascists - real fascists, not your Islamo-fascist construct) to separatists. those target Turkish facilities almost exclusively ... might be the reason you never heard of that.

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