Of course the standard of living has risen for all.

What is most probably the concern of these 'writers of the left-side' is the growing divide between 'have's' and 'have-not's' coinciding with the financial path America blazes toward an economic environment which will disproportionately favor the already wealthy versus those requiring basic needs at the poor's expense.

What is most probably the concern of these 'writers of the left-side' is the growing divide between 'have's' and 'have-not's' coinciding with the financial path America blazes toward an economic environment which will disproportionately favor the already wealthy versus those requiring basic needs at the poor's expense.

How does it harm Bill if Bob has a private jet?

 

 

How does it harm Bill if Bob has a private jet? - Draginol

Surely it doesn't have to. Let's just make certain the compromise is right. How many Bills work under Bob? Can they afford to buy what they are making? If the answer is no, then only other Bobs can enjoy a jet, a luxury few could convincingly persuade Bills is a necessity. That might create some social friction. Maybe not to the degree of le' revolution'! but enough to see some sort of 'leftist' pressure in the election polls.

But if the question is about clean water (basic need) as opposed to luxury items no person needs to enjoy we understand the question can be reversed to serve the rhetoric of the interests of the destitute. When we signed off to NAFTA we should expect American standards of business to follow those corporations when they pillage third world nations for labour.

I'm not up for class warfare.

I don't think my post #1 addresses that question or offers anything supporting or nay-saying any other interpretation of it. I think it's a bad way to approach the question(s) posed by statements from your 'writers on the left-side' ( got some examples via link?).

Of course, as I've said, the standard of living for Americans has risen for all - in America. We don't need our $14,000 dollar furniture or our 2.3 cars and 7.5 televisions replete with cable, internet, and 3.5 phones. We don't need a fat fridge stocked to the brim with designer mustard, Dom Perignon, and Ben'n'Jerry's (these things are not present in my 'fridge)we don't need and we shouldn't expect things the majority of the people in the world don't have offered to us by our simply petitioning the government.

But we still expect those things. We'll probably elect any candidate seemingly able to continue that degree of providence - no matter how fiscally unconservative we become. Sometimes that lack of fiscal discipline somehow translates in to 'deregulation' of our Corporate conduct as a whole. What's the correlation?

I don't know, but it certainly seems as if, in our capitalistic practices, we have adopted Social Darwinism as an excuse for exploiting laymen.

Maybe that's the right and the most profitable course but I still think that if you have too much you're just lonely.

Absolutely people are better off than they were thirty years ago. Average houses are larger with less people living in them. Part of the reason we are getting so fat is that we have money to spend on all this food mainly fast food and restaurant meals with huge portion sizes. It seems like very few families cook dinner every night anymore. It used to be that a restaurant meal was a treat now it seems to be a way of life for most Americans.

I still think that they need to raise minimum wage though.

Deference

What you say makes sense and I agree, but I believe that you kinda basically repeated what Draginol said in his article, though not in those same words. I believe his point was that that is how people think but only because they believe everything they hear, he is mearly pointing this out and telling you that you should not always believe everything without doing some research of your own and making sure you understand what you research. Life in the US is way much better than 30 years ago, I know, I'm 30. I remember the 8 track and LP days. I remember having to hit play and record at the same time on a dual cassette recorder to make my own mixes, then I had to stop the tapes, rewind, listen for the song to finish, then manually rewind a bit to set up for the next song on the next tape. Now all I have to do is select the song I want and bam, I have a CD. I make much more money now than my mom ever has in her years of working. I have things that my mom could only dream of (if she ever really wanted it I mean).

I don't car what Bob has, all I care is for my paycheck at the end of the week. Though I hate the idea of the whole world revolving around money, I have no choice but to accept it. If Bob doesn't pay me enough than I'll either find Joe to give me a second job or Jack to give me a better job. There may be many who are not living as good as others, but I only blame them for not trying hard enough, for not wanting it bad enough, for giving up too fast, for not making an effort. I had it hard before, I am still in a bit of a struggle, but at least I am trying and am bettering myself. It can be done, if you just try. As Aaliyah says in her song "If at first you don't succeed, dust yourself off and try again".

Funny how Draginol only mentions material things and thus concludes that people are better off now. Television shows had a lot more appeal to the whole population than the garbage they show now. Traffic jams were far less a problem. The streets were a lot safer for children.

That is not to say that I want to go back to the past. For starters, you can't. And all in all I do think that for me life is a little better now than it was 30 years ago. But that is not true anymore for almost everyone, and the difference is a lot smaller than it was if you compare 60 years ago with 30 years ago.

Still, I do agree with what Draginol is actually saying (IMHO ): Count your blessings, not your curses. And there are plenty of blessings to be counted!

Television shows had a lot more appeal to the whole population than the garbage they show now.

More people voted on American Idol than in the election. If that's not broad appeal then I have no idea what is.

The streets were a lot safer for children.

That's not actually true. 30 years ago incidences of violent crime and particularly domestic violence were much higher than they are now. Unsafe streets is really more a matter of perception than reality.

Traffic jams were far less a problem.

In small cities traffic jams still aren't a problem. The only reason they're a bigger problem today is because you're living in a city that's grown a lot in the last 30 years.

Personally I agree with Draginol - things are a lot better now than they've ever been in the past. In terms of living standards the 1st world has never been more comfortable for the average citizen. Of course you could point to the third world and say they're still struggling, but then again they were struggling 30 years ago too. Nothing's changed much in many 3rd world states.

Not to mention, just twenty years ago, a "state of the art" computer (which was less powerful than our CELL PHONES) would set you back anywhere from $800 (Apple II+, 1985) to several thousand dollars. In 1980, I remember an Atari 2600 costing $200...at a time when minimum wage was under $3.00 per hour. We are MUCH better off than we were, even twenty years ago!

Funny how Draginol only mentions material things and thus concludes that people are better off now.

Kettle, is that not what you did after you wrote the above sentence?

Television shows had a lot more appeal to the whole population than the garbage they show now.

If you say so, but keep in mind TVs have only been around the US for only around 50 years. While I won't deny my love for some shows over 20 years ago, I will say that I like TV shows more today than before, specially with Directv and Dish network.

Traffic jams were far less a problem

There is no such thing as more or less traffic jam problems. they are a problem because they are jams. Even if its for 5 minutes or 5 hours it's still a pain. And consider that there are more people and more cars on the road, obviously there is a higher volume of traffic, but not everywhere and most people are use to it already.

The streets were a lot safer for children.

What world do you live in? I have yet to see a street in any era that was safe for children. Child predators, drunk drivers, gangs and stray bullets did not just pop up 5 years ago, they have been around for way longer than 30 years.

If you wanna talk about non material things, try this:

1) Education is much better than 30 years ago (Excluding Florida, the system sucks here)
2) Racism, though still in existance, is not anywhere close to what it was 30 years ago.

I can say that some things have gottem worse, such as music (too much rap and hip hop if you ask me), driving skills have gotten worse not better, most people don't care as much about anything but themselves (though this may actually be common as far back as the first humans on Earth, who knows) as a few years ago. Hey, we have to take the good with the bad, but we can't ignore all the good things just because there are still bad things around.

Gideon is right.  If we look at absolute dollars, the argument may be correct (frankly, I think the numbers were contrived).  However if we look at what those dollars can buy today vs 30 years ago, we are a lot better off.  Cell phones and computers are not necessities, yet almost everyone has one.  30 years ago, almost no one did.

I don't think I've heard anyone say things were better 30 years ago. What was going on in 1976? The economy was in the toilet, we had just gone though impeachment hearings and Nixon resigned in disgrace, we were demoralized from the Vietnam war, disco was emerging as the dominant music, polyester clothes were in style...

A few things that were better... gas and housing were a lot cheaper. You could bowl three games for a dollar. Cars were a lot cheaper. You could get a decent used car for under $1000. Hell, you could get a new car for $3000. Todays vehicles are much more reliable, though. You were lucky to get 100,000 miles on a car back then. I put 250,000 miles on a Honda during the 90s and then sold it for $1000. I've had my new Accord for four years and have yet to do any work on it besides change the oil.

I think maybe times were simpler back then. Most of us didn't have computers. The only video game on the market was Pong. Yeah, that was real exciting. We didn't have cell phones. People used to hitchhike all over the place. I used to pick up hitchhikers. I wouldn't think about doing that today.

Remember Ma Bell? "Take the first 5 for a dollar five...."
Well today the first 5 cost about $0.25.

Of course I did like the charcoal fluid a lot more back then.

A few things that were better... gas and housing were a lot cheaper. You could bowl three games for a dollar. Cars were a lot cheaper. You could get a decent used car for under $1000. Hell, you could get a new car for $3000. Todays vehicles are much more reliable, though. You were lucky to get 100,000 miles on a car back then. I put 250,000 miles on a Honda during the 90s and then sold it for $1000. I've had my new Accord for four years and have yet to do any work on it besides change the oil.

Yeah but what were they getting for a wage back then?

Of course I did like the charcoal fluid a lot more back then.

I seem to remember a blog on that.  

I miss the family farm and mom & pop grocery stores on the corner and the fact we didn't have cell phones.