Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
Why tempt fate?
Published on April 28, 2004 By Draginol In Life Journals

I decided to exile one of our more vocal users for a day after sending him an email. I had meant to do it last week when he got caught using a fake user to create a second account to disparage his various enemies (real or imagined). It was designed as a shot across the bow. I don't really like exiling anyone because it takes energy to do that (i.e. I don't like doing things that negative affect others) when I really have a lot of other things to work on.

Things with JoeUser.com have gone differently than we had imagined. Net communities are fairly predictable in their evolution. You attract a hard core group at the start and then you take a very very hard line relatively early on to drive off the napoleaonic wannabes. You see, in most net communities, you have people "regulars" who post often and believe that their very presence gives them "power" to dictate the rules to others. Healthy net communities discourage these people because they end up trying to build tight cliques that end up abusing their soft power on newcomers who don't fall into line.  So what we've done on our other net communities is try to discourage those kinds of people from getting too comfortable.

On WinCustomize.com, we lost about a third of the regulars in the first few months. We intentionally took a hard line on a range of issues that later on we became much softer on. I think the difference on JoeUser.com is that the authority is less delegated. On WinCustomize, there were several of us who were very publicly available to cut the would-be Napolean's at the knees. That's unlike here at JoeUser.

As I go through the forums I already see what I consider to be an unhealthy clique building. Not one particular clique but several. Over time, these cliques can exert a soft power to intimidate newcomers to the site and hence be able to mold the overall atmosphere at the site. Such cliques tend to be elitist. The same thing has gone on at our other sitmes from time to time. The difference is that there hasn't yet been a mass exodus of regulars from JoeUser. The reason this sort of thing is important is because the regulars who leave are quite certain that their departure will spell the doom of a given site that they frequent. I remember on WinCustomize the prediction that the site was going to "flop" because so many "old timers" from "the community" had abandoned the site because we would not recognize their inherent widsom and make ourselves subservient to it.

I think on JoeUser that things are much more complex because we want people to feel like their blogs are their own. They should feel comfortable to write about whatever they want. We don't want to hve to censor people....On the other hand, we (and me in particular) don't want people using our resources to trash us. Why should I put all this energy (and money) into the site so some guy can come on and harass me from blog to blog or use his own blog to trash me?  You can see the cunumdrum.

So here's my two cents (train of thought) on the matter:

1) Unless you're paying for yoru blog, you're not a customer. I'm not your servant. I don't work for you. Show some respect for those providing something to you free of charge. That respect can come in the form of simply not going out of your way to piss on the admins.

2) If you write an article and I come onto it and disagree with you, then I'm fair game. If I'm nasty in my response (in your opinion) you're free to return the favor in your response to me. You can even blacklist me from your blog if you find something I write obnoxious. You won't be penalized for blast listing me and in fact it might just be a sign of sound judgement on your part. But related to that, admins can't truly be blacklisted. It simply makes a note by the message box that this user has black listed me. I can still respond and reserve the right to in a pinch but will make an honest effort to respect your wishes.

3) I make no qualms about fairness. Use common sense. We're not on equal ground here. One's "soft power" of influence is meaningless if your opposition is an Admin. Besides that, soft power is related to the popularity of the articles. I have 4 of the top 5 most popular articles presently and 7 of the top 10. So right now the "admins" have the soft power and the hard power. So users shouldn't imagine leverage that they don't have.

4) It's not about meanness or niceness. It's about respect for one another. Respect others and you will find yourself receiving in return. Some of the best users on this site have very different philosphies than I do but they are intelligent and respectul of others and get it in return.

So that's my little rant for the evening.

 

 


Comments (Page 2)
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on Apr 29, 2004
Lol. I don't see why it's any big deal. The only thing to consider is that the guy made an imaginary person in order to make it look like he had allies or at least someone who was on his side. All the other crap is useless to consider. I'm not into the banning thing and I doubt I ever will be. But doing what he did, that's worthy of being booted. I wouldn't do it myself, mind you. Just a good warning. I may have gotten on board late (he may have had a warning already) but otherwise leave him alone. He needs pity not punishment.
on Apr 29, 2004
oh and what are the cliques here? I'm too new to know I guess. That may explain the odd point changes that come along now and then.
on Apr 29, 2004

mikimouse, nobody gets a status change without fair warning.

This site is basically a giant database, so everything that you do is associated with your account.  It's easy to see trends in who "chats" with other people and who gives a good rating to everything a "friend" writes.  On the flip side, you can also see where they give "trolling" to people just because they don't like them.  But, none of that is a shock or anything new.  It happens in all online communities.

on Apr 29, 2004
All I'm saying is that I don't see these little groups getting together. I haven't been here long enough. I do know, however, that I'm not tasteful and couth enough to belong to any group here. I'm like Dirty Harry. I hate em all! Just joking. It' s neat how, without ever talking to each other or knowing who the other is or what they look like, they can still forge bonds simply through their non-real online personality.
on Apr 29, 2004
To the best of my knowledge (which is considerable) the main two cliques are centred around Sir Peter Maxwell and Brad Wardell
on Apr 29, 2004
lol. Nice to know. I thought they were the same person. Or is that draginol and brad? Not sure since I'm so new.
on Apr 29, 2004
You think SPM and Draginol are the same guy? For real? Christ now I need a drink.....
on Apr 29, 2004
Maybe i am a cynic but Tractormansavestheday is Dan's father, is this praise of Brad Wardell genuine in light of Dan's recent behaviour?

Yes, it is genuine.

Being Dan's father and loving him immensely does NOT mean that I condone all that he does. He is well aware of this.

Tractorman
on Apr 29, 2004
hey what can I say? I don't know these people. Enjoy the drink though.
on Apr 29, 2004
First, I would like to say that I am really impressed with everything you have made, Brad. This site is really amazing with all its ins and outs (and i've only been here for an hour). Naturally, this being your site you should be able to do what ever you want. However, I assume it is at least break even due to ads (if not... I am even more impressed you pay for the massive bandwidth and space needed).

I tend to hold a more capitalist philosophy of life, not so much the command system that you are exemplifying. I say: if user x is being an idiot then people will stop reading his blog and he will leave the site. If he annoys you personally, you can always not read what he says. It's a natural process, just like free market. You say: if user x is being an idiot then it is my duty to prevent him from harming other people by manually removing him.

As in real life, I'm sure the capitalist system will work in the long run. Command systems have numerous flaws, but I assume you know what they are. Not to tempt fate or anything... but it probably would make people like you more if you were more of a free market kinda guy when dealing with the site.
on Apr 29, 2004

I don't really see any cliques centered around me (Brad).

As for Dan, creating an alias for the express reason to trash other people is kind of low. Just so that we're clear: It's not the creating of the alias that I objected to so much. It is the creation of the alias to tear down others so that he could keep his main ID clean.

I'm posting as myself (Brad Wardell handle Draginol). I expose myself. So i tend to not look kindly on people who trash me not as themselves but from behind a fake user.

But rather than recognizing his mistake and trying to be a bit decent to the people who had harshly attacked with his alias, he just continued on. Apparently in one place he called me a "prick". Here in this post, even after being put on warning, he referred to me as having a "fragile ego". Those who know me know that I'm rarely driven by "ego" (fragile or otherwise). It's just gratuitious antagonism and ultimately, there's no reason why I or any other admin has to put up with that kind of nonsense.

on Apr 29, 2004
"But rather than recognizing his mistake and trying to be a bit decent to the people who had harshly attacked with his alias, he just continued on. Apparently in one place he called me a "prick". Here in this post, even after being put on warning, he referred to me as having a "fragile ego". Those who know me know that I'm rarely driven by "ego" (fragile or otherwise). It's just gratuitious antagonism and ultimately, there's no reason why I or any other admin has to put up with that kind of nonsense."

I find it much more effective to leave antagonists alone and ultimately let them bring themselves down rather than trying to attack them back. Ironically, in doing so you are almost lowering yourself to their level. Besides, it's a lot more fun to watch other people come to the realization that this is a bad person, than to get that bad taste in your mouth every time you attack someone back.

Whatever, there will always be stupid people in the world, and maybe each of us just has to have their own way to deal with them.
on Apr 29, 2004
It’s a shame Dan Kashew was exiled. After Dan said all those terrible things about Brad, he seems non apologetic, even defiant, so this must not be a big deal to him.

I think Jeremy is right, an elitist clique have formed an unholy alliance. A consortium of megalomaniacal elitist users religiously add points to each others chat sessions, The elitists have effectively turned the point system into a popularity contest rather than a reward for quality content, something to think about.
on Apr 29, 2004

However, I assume it is at least break even due to ads (if not... I am even more impressed you pay for the massive bandwidth and space needed).

hehehehe....yeah.  That would be nice.  But, no, ads don't pay jack anymore.  This isn't a simple site, either.  There are 3 people who work on code, graphics, asp, database, etc.  Then, you have the other people who admin it, test it, etc.  It also requires a great deal of bandwidth and a hefty server.  Ads don't even come close to even paying for one of those points.

on Apr 29, 2004
It’s a shame Dan Kashew was exiled.


Are you EVER going to give that up?!

A consortium of megalomaniacal elitist users religiously add points to each others chat sessions, The elitists have effectively turned the point system into a popularity contest rather than a reward for quality content, something to think about.



I suppose you'd consider me part of the 'clique' who "chat" and are in this for a "popularity contest"?

You have a really short memory, Anthony.
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