"The obesity rate amongst the poor is higher than any other segment."

Agree.

"the moral issue of men with guns (the government) confiscating the property (income) that someone makes"

Again, are there no countries on Earth, where this government with guns comes to take your money away?

Maybe I don't see an issue with a government, which is really just a rules organization, keeping order or attempting to do so, within the confines of it's jurisdiction. See "Iraq" for a situation where it government doesn't happen.

How do you suggest the government do that, asking for donations? I have agreed with you in every respect when you have been talking about being more capitalistic then socialist. I have never sided with the socialists wholly, nor would I, See U.S.S.R for that explanation. What we have here in the United States is not economic slavery, we have a balanced system that takes care of the bottom segments better then it should but at the benefit of all, including you, no major rioting/civil strife, a growing economy, excellent confidence in the system, and investment opportunities all over the place.

In exchange, those of you at the top or near the top of the economic tax bracket, can walk into any bank with a proven record of ability to generate wealth and get a loan rate lower then I, or anyone without that. You can also choose much more so your daily destiny. As your own boss you can take a day off whenever you want, throw a party at the office whenever you want. Order 25 different kind of pizza's and have a half slice of each kind. LOL. I think you might overlook the perks of being able to make free-er financial decisions.

As for how the government operates, yes it is inefficient, it is slower the the private sector, it is a huge operation that can't count, it is a great and a terrible customer to the private sector, and it is what it is. But it is also keeper of the place of the most potential, and most opportunity worldwide and that is something you have to respect.

As for you though, you surely have the economic resources to make a move, seriously, are there no places in the tropics outside the income-tax jurisdiction where you could base from, the Caribbean, Jamaican, Bahamas, someplace like that? Michigan, on the other hand, until it succeeds from the union will have to pay federal income taxes indefinetly. If the weather is anything like in Wisconsin, maybe a day later, it sucks.

"smuggly morally superior"

Really?

It isn't like they don't confiscate a particularly painful part of my paycheck each week either Brad. Each individual dollar they take of mine is more valuable proportionally then each of yours.

It is you and others who categorize me that way, not I. I apologize for making you feel that I am smuggly morally superior.

Don't selectively quote. It's dishonest debating at its lowest.

Add the rest back: The issue is taking money from one individual to hand to another individual.

Do you grasp the difference? We aren't talking about money being used for roads or other "public" good but literally given to another individual in exchange for nothing.

If you don't know how to debate, don't participate. Your attempt to misrepresent what I wrote to being that I'm against taxation is disgusting and contemptible.

I wrote:

and then you address:

Completely changes what was being said.

Spoken as a true class warfare artist.  Your property is not more valuable than my property or vice versa.  We both earned it.

As for your final comment, no need to apologize. You are simply unworthy to participate on my blog.

 

I disagree. I don't know if you're aware of this, but ALL "organic" is is a label. There is plenty of food on the market that is just as nutritious that does not bear the "organic" label. Even the food out of your garden cannot be labelled "organic" unless it meets a strict certification process.

You do realize that you just completely contradicted yourself, right? If it is only a "Label", then obviously food out of my garden could be "Labeled" Organic right? But wait, you mention the certification process.. Ahhh, now we are on to something. See the problem is, I often find the poor toss up their arms and say "Blah! Organic is for loosers, food is food." because frankly, they just can't afford to buy Organic. People that do buy it will tell you without hesitation that it tastes far far better than non-organic and this isn't a placebo effect. Go ahead, buy some organic milk and compare it to the same % fat mass produced milk. I dare you.

Now to clarify, there are several "Grades" of Organic;

100% Organic - the most strict.
Organic - Strict, but with some exceptions.
Natural - Loose regulations, win some lose some with natural labeled stuff.

Speaking for my family, we eat 90% Organic when possible. Nobody in this household has had so much as a sniffle in the last 5 years and I attribute much of that to the type of food we eat and our diets. Even our beef is 100% Organic, Grass Fed, and purchased by the "Side" in bulk. Are we hippies? No, but I love cooking, and I don't appreciate toxins, poisons, hormones and pesticides in my food!

The problem we have now is when we are forced to eat non-organic (dinners out, dinner at friends, etc), we find the food tastes pretty revolting. Hamburgers on the grill at a friends taste like little patties of chemicals. Frankly, we're spoiled by eating the way people are supposed to eat, and everyone else is overly conditioned to tasting toxins apparently. It is pretty amazing to see how much of the "Life" is sapped out of most of the commercial food people are eating. Here is a nice chart showing how nutrious Grass-Fed Pasture Grazed Beef is compared to the feedlot trash you'll find in normal stores;

http://www.texasgrassfedbeef.com/index.htm
(scroll down a bit)

To the core point, Draginol has contempt for the poor, and admittedly, I do as well. I am sick and tired of watching the poor wallow in self pity waiting for a "Magical" cure for their problems. It is like the lotto, you see a poor bastard spending $50 a week on the lotto waiting for his dream ticket. What he doesn't realize is that even if he did win, he'd be too damn stupid to manage the money and would be back on skid-row within a few years or less. You CANNOT fix the poor by dumping a truck of cash onto their problems, they need to get off their arses and fix their own problems.

I have yet to meet a really poor person that didn't make a sucession of TERRIBLE decisions their entire life. Then they continue to make some of the most terrible decisions ever, regardless of any changes to their circumstances. So Draginol gives Joe-Poor a job making 50K a year, cool! Joe-Poor now has the money to smoke and drink twice as much and buy a brand new gas hog SUV to drive 2 hours to work! Joe-Poor is still Joe-Poor with a job! There is no change, he is still poor, now if he gets laid off because Draginol suddenly has to pay more taxes, then Joe-Poor just became Joe-Homeless because Joe didn't save a penny of his money.

Indeed.  And it's not that I have contempt for the poor but rather I'm not sympathetic for the poor (in general).  There are people who have really had some hard breaks or health issues (or mental illness) who legitimately need help.

But since the "Great Society" programs got started, there's been so much research into what makes someone poor that we have a pretty good idea.  People who are poor overwhelmingly don't work -- as in, basically never get jobs.  It's a very small % of the population but they make up a huge percentage of the "poor".

The overwhelming reasons those people don't work are due to either repeatedly making bad decisions (having multiple children out of wedlock with no way to support them, becoming a drug user, or not finishing high school for other reasons) or simply don't want to work because they're too unmotivated.

That is what makes those people fat too. They could pick up chicken to roast or beef to roast or beans and soups and broth and eat reasonably healthily for a couple bucks per day (I should know, I had to live very lean for years).  Or they can go and pay the same amount for a bag of potato chips or hot pockets or something else that's just terrible for them.  Junk food, fast food, soda are terrible for people health-wise and they're not cheap.  Anyone who thinks McDonalds is "cheap" has clearly never shopped for real food that they prepare themselves.

No, the point is you have to PAY for certification. The food out of your garden could be completely organic, but unless you pay the racketeers you can't use the label. It's a racket, any way you slice it.

The problem we have now is when we are forced to eat non-organic (dinners out, dinner at friends, etc), we find the food tastes pretty revolting. Hamburgers on the grill at a friends taste like little patties of chemicals. Frankly, we're spoiled by eating the way people are supposed to eat, and everyone else is overly conditioned to tasting toxins apparently. It is pretty amazing to see how much of the "Life" is sapped out of most of the commercial food people are eating. Here is a nice chart showing how nutrious Grass-Fed Pasture Grazed Beef is compared to the feedlot trash you'll find in normal stores. Sorry Yarby, but I ain't buying it.

And the price difference? Ground meat from "your" source is 4.38 @ pound. Ground meat from my store is $1.66 @ pound. "That" in itself is why most people do not eat organic foods. Organic bananas at the store are $1.50 per pound, regular bananas are .49 cents a pound. You can go on and on about this, but the price differences are just too steep. And out of the reach of "most" peoples wallet.

I'm sorry for breaking all the rules of debating lol.

I was asking about whether or not there are countries you can live as a citizen and not pay income taxes. Not really debating it because I don't know. I'm sure there is someplace you can go, that has no income tax.

As for the point about your dollars vs mine. Though it may not be fair to compare, it is true if someone takes $500 from me, I'm broke for the week, if someone takes $500 from you are you broke for about an hour. Anything the government takes is a tax. Why does it become stealing because they take more from you?

You seem to think that if there were no government, that things would just run themselves, and this great country of ours would be able to just work without it. Thats the viewpoint I gather from what you write.

"As for your final comment, no need to apologize. You are simply unworthy to participate on my blog."

Ok.

And the price difference? Ground meat from "your" source is 4.38 @ pound. Ground meat from my store is $1.66 @ pound. "That" in itself is why most people do not eat organic foods. Organic bananas at the store are $1.50 per pound, regular bananas are .49 cents a pound. You can go on and on about this, but the price differences are just too steep. And out of the reach of "most" peoples wallet.

Incorrect. My "Source" for Organic Grass Fed Beef is $2.49 a Pound, I purchase it by a full side of beef at a time and keep it in a chest freezer. Oh, and I haven't seen ground beef for $1.66 a pound for a decade, what are you buying Regurgitated ground beef? Secondly, no need to buy Organic Bananas, the thick skin on normal Bananas is enough to repell a vast majority of toxins. The biggest things to get organic are Meat, Chicken, Eggs, Milk, Cheese, Broccoli, Grapes, Raspberries, Peaches and a few others (google it). The rest you can pick and choose as desired.

Buying organic isn't always that much more costly for savy folks. You just have to know what to buy and where to buy it, and sometimes in the case of beef, buy in bulk.

LOL.

Incorrect. My "Source" for Organic Grass Fed Beef is $2.49 a Pound, I purchase it by a full side of beef at a time and keep it in a chest freezer. Oh, and I haven't seen ground beef for $1.66 a pound for a decade, what are you buying Regurgitated ground beef? Secondly, no need to buy Organic Bananas, the thick skin on normal Bananas is enough to repell a vast majority of toxins. The biggest things to get organic are Meat, Chicken, Eggs, Milk, Cheese, Broccoli, Grapes, Raspberries, Peaches and a few others (google it). The rest you can pick and choose as desired. Buying organic isn't always that much more costly for savy folks. You just have to know what to buy and where to buy it, and sometimes in the case of beef, buy in bulk.

And just "who" do think has the money just lying around to buy half a beef"? Most sides of beef weigh about 500 to 700 pounds. By your figures that comes out at $1245 to $1745 per side. And as to your last...buying in bulk is nice. But then you have to have a way to preserve the excess. Not everyone has access to a freezer or the ability/knowledge/materials required to can their excess. So for the most part buying in "large" lots is out of the question for us common folk. I was just using bananas as an "example". There are plenty of others the same way. Here's one and the price "never" goes down. Organic tomatoes are 4.99 @ pound at "every" store in my area ( I have 4 different companies to choose from). Regular tomatoes run between 1.99 to 3.99 a pound, depending on the time of year and the type of tomato.

And your "when and where to buy" comment.....I've been doing the "entire" grocery shopping for the best part of 35 years (since I usually end up being the chef/cook & bottle washer). And I can tell you for a fact that buying "organic" is "always" more pricey and usually not worth the extra money required. I have had organic food prepared for me by some very fine chefs/cooks and have yet to find something that tastes so good that it tells me, to buy organic and not the regular brand. Personally, I'm happy for you that you can afford to spend all the extra money. Most of us can't.

Food snobs are as stupid as bottled water snobs.

Right on LW! I don't buy bottled water anymore except when I run low on the plastic bottles. I have found that "ordinary" tap water if frozen solid and left to thaw and then chilled, tastes just as good as any bottled water you can buy. I try to keep 24 bottles in my icebox. 8 have presweetened ice tea in them. The rest are just thawed water. Every once in a while a bottle goes bad either from splitting or getting really nasty from the tea. Then I buy another 6 pack and save the bottles.

Has anyone ever told you, Miller, that your use of quotation marks for emphasis is one of the most annoying methods in the world to highlight your points?

Has anyone ever told you, Miller, that your use of quotation marks for emphasis is one of the most annoying methods in the world to highlight your points?

You got a better way lets hear it. If not and you don't like it, then that's tough! Go away and don't bother reading my stuff.

You could also distill your own water for pennies a gallon, and if that's not pure enough, you could charcoal filter it, also for pennies a gallon. (What do you think happens in those Brita pitchers? It's nothing but charcoal, babee, dirt cheap charcoal.) I'm sure you know how to make a still....(grins)

But that would be against the law...because you and I "both" know that water would not be the only thing run through the still.

Bold, italic, or CAPITALS are all more appealing and less noisy . . .

Bold, italic, or CAPITALS are all more appealing and less noisy .

Just an fyi....Caps are considered shouting and rude. And the length of time you've been on JU, you should know that.