An analogy even a socialist could understand

The story of the garden

Published on March 4, 2007 By Draginol In Politics

Once upon a time...

There was a man with a garden. He worked very hard tending his garden and produced far more vegetables than he would ever be able to eat. So he gave some of his vegetables away to up and coming gardeners who used the seeds to start their own gardens in exchange for the gardener getting a tiny percent of the profits they generated.

But then one day, the king decided socialism was a more "humane" way of doing things. He forced all the gardeners to give him all the extra vegetables they made to give out to the "poor".

Because of this, the gardener didn't have any extra vegetables to provide to up and coming gardeners to get them started.

In short order, the number of new gardeners came to a stand still while the population continued to grow even higher since, for now, there was a lot of free food thanks to the socialist king.

But soon after, people began to starve because there was no longer enough food to feed the growing population. The king couldn't understand why and decided he should take more and more food from the "Greedy" gardeners. But the problem only got worse as now no gardeners had enough vegetables to use to plant more crops in their own gardens for next year.

The moral of the story is that it's never a good idea for the government to confiscate from those who are producing things to give to those who are not producing - especially if it interferes with the ability for the producers to produce even more. Because in the end, all the people will suffer as a result.

Comments (Page 8)

106

Yarby

on Mar 22, 2007

MS virtually didn't exist years ago, yet is a growing disease. While I can't make the claim to know what causes it, there is some evidence that various things attributed to our "Modern" society may cause it.. Aspartame has been implicated by at least 3 of the nations leading experts on MS. EMF/EMR/Wifi and other forms of emissions are also one avenue of thought on the rising incidents. There are at least some experts that think synthetic chemical toxins may cause it. Or a combination of those factors with a genetic predisposition.

Do you drink diet sodas? Sit next to a WiFi antenna? Live in a area with chemical runoff? Unfortunately the learning curve on this is steep so everyone is learning about this one individual anatomy at a time on so many modern afflictions with growing prevelance, literally. Eventually the adage that the "plural of anecdote is data" will come to pass.

I have one unique incident where my son was suffering various ailments ranging from headaches, tiredness, to sore legs. Test after test, specialist after specialist found nothing other than lowered IgA panels in his blood. Eventually I tracked it down to the WiFi system in our home, once disabled his symptoms disppeared overnight, literally! 3 weeks later we tested his IgA panel and found them back to normal. There have been at least 3 major studies that found EMF/EMR/WiFi drops Melatonin/IgA that I only researched later. If you research you find that overseas all of this kind of thing is documented and studied with clear results, yet over here much of this is supressed information.

This is the modern day version of Romans drinking wine from lead based cups, and sipping water from lead pipes. We'd like to think that our modern society protects us from these things, much like the Romans touted their vastly superior society over the savages of their time while they were poisoning themselves into oblivion.

107

drmiler

on Mar 22, 2007

This alone shows your ignorance on the subject. MS is passed GENETICALLY! While the father may have the desease, he does not pass to his offspring automatically. But it "does" give them a predisposition to contract it. The only reason it rears it's ugly head now is because "now" we have the tools required to diagnose it properly. Believe me as a long term sufferer of MS, I "think" that I know just a little bit more on the subject than you. I've had 6 years to learn! Also the highlighted section above is plain BS! There is "no" scientific data to support this. The underlined section is also wrong. NONE of the items proposed above can cause a "genetic disposition" for MS. Go look up the meaning of the phrase.

Do you drink diet sodas? Sit next to a WiFi antenna? Live in a area with chemical runoff? Unfortunately the learning curve on this is steep so everyone is learning about this one individual anatomy at a time on so many modern afflictions with growing prevelance, literally. Eventually the adage that the "plural of anecdote is data" will come to pass.

And to answer all your questions from above... is a resounding no! Also another little FYI....the diet soda bit? That "only" pertains to those that contain "aspertane". And not all diet sodas have that in their makeup. Aspertane has been known to cause MS like "syptoms", but it does "not" cause MS!

There have been at least 3 major studies that found EMF/EMR/WiFi drops Melatonin/IgA that I only researched later. If you research you find that overseas all of this kind of thing is documented and studied with clear results, yet over here much of this is supressed information

And where can a person view these "major" studies?

This is the modern day version of Romans drinking wine from lead based cups, and sipping water from lead pipes. We'd like to think that our modern society protects us from these things, much like the Romans touted their vastly superior society over the savages of their time while they were poisoning themselves into oblivion.

This is called the learning curve. We try something and learn through "science" that it's bad for us. And then we change it.

108

Dr Guy

on Mar 22, 2007

Go Doc Go!

109

Yarby

on Mar 22, 2007

Which is exactly why I stated that the learning curve is high if you read what I said.

In regards to melatonin relative to EMF/EMR/WideFidelity, most of the studies I have read are part of my research papers, but here is one I can quickly google with substantiating bibliography;

http://www.feb.se/EMFguru/Research/emf-emr/EMR-Reduces-Melatonin.htm

A good publication on the subject;
http://www.amazon.com/Melatonin-Hypothesis-Breast-Cancer-Electric/dp/1574770209/ref=sr_1_1/002-2908050-9626428?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1174605845&sr=8-1

Now I quite discovered my sons melatonin/IgA link completely by accident via blood panels to try and find the cause of his ailments. I didn't tie the melatonin issue into it being WiFi without further investigation, and at that point it was relatively easy to turn off the WiFi and do lab panels on him to watch his Melatonin/IgA rise back to normal levels. With me having access to a research lab, and my wife being a physician this kind of thing is easy for us.

We also discovered in a subsequent test anyone can repeat, that EMF/EMR/WiFI directly influences blood glucose levels. Go buy a test kit at any drug store and you can test this for yourself. Test your Glucose in a lower EMF/EMR/WiFi environment (middle of a field or whatever you can find near you). Then walk over next to a WiFi sourcepoint and stand there for a minute or two. Once again, test your Glucose, and you will note a 25%+ increase in blood glucose levels. Rinse and repeat as many times as you like to convince yourself, try it on other people unaware of the test. We discovered this quite by accident but is quite the revelation don't you think?

Unfortunately the vehicle for change and understand is being impeaded by powerful lobbies with a lot of money to toss around. Funding on this area for research is simply not available - I know our research lab has tried to get funding. There is clearly a pretty concerted effort going on to keep this from escalating into a big issue. I have had a memo faxed to me from someone that showed at least 14 major insurance companies planning contingencies to deal with escalating EMF/EMR/WiFi damage claims. Someone knows what is going on but they are hoping nobody will notice.

110

drmiler

on Mar 23, 2007

Which is exactly why I stated that the learning curve is high if you read what I said.

Sorry, but there is no learning curve on MS....only on the cure/therapy.

Your links? I noted something strange. On the first link, not one of his reference scientists are American. Please do not try to tell me that we have done no work in this field. At worse the scientists would merely post their findings in another country. That has been done before.

On link number 2... Please note the title of the book in question. "The Melatonin Hypothesis: Breast Cancer and Use of Electric Power (Hardcover)". "Hypothesis" = theory, not fact. So once again I find that I must reject your arguments based upon the info that was presented. If you have other documentation I would be glad to read it.

111

Yarby

on Mar 23, 2007

Are you kidding me? Almost all of the cited scientists are American. Heck, I know 2 of them cited including James Burch whom I have had the pleasure to work with, and I assure you, he is American. Not to mention one of the great epidemiologists of our time.

http://www.sph.sc.edu/facultystaffpages/facstaffdetails.php?ID=491

Like I said, the evidence is there, just look. I won't do a research project on your behalf. But if you need a compass, start with looking up names of the most respected epidemiologists, then reference their work and you'll find all of the data you need on the subject we're discussing. Your propensity to put trust in the government to do what is good for you is alarming. But it is your life, your ailments, and you ultimately will be the one paying the price for the ignorance. Far be it from me to try and save the world, you have some data, what you do with it is entirely up to you. I'm done with this thread and responding to nonsensical dribble from unqualified individiuals that can't validate their own arguments with *ANY* substantiating data.

112

Dr Guy

on Mar 23, 2007

Like I said, the evidence is there, just look

The evidence even a socialist could understand?????

113

drmiler

on Mar 23, 2007

Are you kidding me? Almost all of the cited scientists are American. Heck, I know 2 of them cited including James Burch whom I have had the pleasure to work with, and I assure you, he is American. Not to mention one of the great epidemiologists of our time.

Link

Like I said, the evidence is there, just look. I won't do a research project on your behalf. But if you need a compass, start with looking up names of the most respected epidemiologists, then reference their work and you'll find all of the data you need on the subject we're discussing. Your propensity to put trust in the government to do what is good for you is alarming. But it is your life, your ailments, and you ultimately will be the one paying the price for the ignorance. Far be it from me to try and save the world, you have some data, what you do with it is entirely up to you. I'm done with this thread and responding to nonsensical dribble from unqualified individuals that can't validate their own arguments with *ANY* substantiating data.

I note that you did not address what I said about link #2. And I do take back what I said about your first link. I did a "little" digging...seems quite a few are American. So I apologize. But please answer me this...if this is a provable theory, then why has it not been shouted to the skies by the AMA or the doctors themselves. There isn't enough money available to buy them all off.

I'm done with this thread and responding to nonsensical dribble from unqualified individuals that can't validate their own arguments with *ANY* substantiating data

Neither can you. "All" you can offer are a few hypotheses which are not facts in themselves, but a theory.

114

drmiler

on Mar 24, 2007

I'm done with this thread and responding to nonsensical dribble from unqualified individuals that can't validate their own arguments with *ANY* substantiating data

What I'd like to know is what makes you more qualified then the rest of us? Or are you a "coward", yarby?

115

Dan Greene

on Mar 25, 2007

"People like Dan are why we do not see political progress in this country. If the government says it it must be true, because the government would never, ever lie to us."

Yes blame it all on people like Dan. I guess the rest of the world, fucking whiners like yourself Gid, you have no part in lack of political progress right. Censoring people and whining about everything. LOL.

Did you know I'm the cause of all your personal trouble too. You probably don't know I like it that way. You living in misery.

This thread, was about socialism & capitalism, not about water, or cancer, or diet soda, certainly not about fucking political progress as if that has anything to do with government or economic systems. It's just a place for you to fucking whine, and knock people who don't agree or think exactly like you do Gid.

Oooo Oooo I'm whining, nobdoy likes me, oooo oooo, change my diaper.

116

drmiler

on Mar 25, 2007

This thread, was about socialism & capitalism, not about water, or cancer, or diet soda, certainly not about fucking political progress as if that has anything to do with government or economic systems. It's just a place for you to fucking whine, and knock people who don't agree or think exactly like you do Gid.

Only "one" person started the drivel on water and such, and it wasn't me. I won't mention names, but his initials are "yarby".

And since you are not the one that initiated this thread....why are you even mentioning the OT dicussion?

117

Gideon MacLeish

on Mar 25, 2007

Did you know I'm the cause of all your personal trouble too.

I HAVE no personal trouble to speak of, Dan. My life's pretty damn skippy, actually. As for censoring, I have never censored you. Blacklist is entirely different than censorship. I'm saying I don't want you on my blog, which is my right to do, as it is your right to keep me off of your blog.

As for my "just whining", no, Dan, I'm one of the people who actually tries to DO something, rather than just postulate on it. I put my money where my mouth is.

You're showing that I had very good reason to blacklist you, Dan. You're pretty much ensuring it will not be lifted in the future. The one thing I regret was referring to you as "smart"; I obviously gave you WAY too much credit.

118

Gideon MacLeish

on Mar 25, 2007

(sidenote: I think we ought to automatically give people the weenie award for blaming people for "censorship" because they have the audacity to blacklist them from their blogs).

119

Dan Greene

on Mar 26, 2007

"Blacklist is entirely different than censorship."

Uh huh

I'll take the weenie award if you take the censor award.

"I'm one of the people who actually tries to DO something, rather than just postulate on it. I put my money where my mouth is."

If your doing something is critizing me, and then people like me, as the reason, there is no political progress in this country, that is just marketing and bologna sausages.

As for blacklisting, denying people the right to rebutt, speak or write, is definetly and wholly censorship. Since you are the one who controls that on your blog, you are the censor.

Censorship is denying others the right to exchanged information and removing information from the public domain. Whenever you willfully deny access to information that is not private or protected, you are censoring.

That would include attempts to prevent exchange of points of view. One could argue that any expression at all prevented from being exchanged is censorship. Of course not you Gid, You're out there DOING SOMETHING for mankind. Helping to make all of our lives Skippy.

You can go on believing denying free speech is not censorship but it definetly is censorship.

120

Chaos Manager

on Mar 26, 2007

Blacklisting someone is censorship? News to me.

Is it censorship to deny someone access to your living room when all that person does is attack you, belittle you, and thoroughly act like an ignorant boor? Not at all.

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