Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
But isn't ready for prime time...yet
Published on April 29, 2007 By Draginol In Politics

In a recent article, I talked about how Ethanol is not a solution to our energy needs. It's not "green" by any rational sense of the word and it's not practical and it's expensive.

I get a lot of email and this article produced more than its fair share as proponents of bio-diesel, solar, wind, and so forth got into the act.  A lot of the emails had a central theme "So what's YOUR solution then???"

There is no easy solution.  A lot of solutions involve replacing one environmental problem with another. Nova had an interesting show this week called "Saved by the Sun".  It is a pretty one-sided but informative piece on how solar power might be part of our solution.

I think that 50 years from now, solar power will be a major source of our energy. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that within 50 years that a third of our energy comes from solar power.  But it's not ready for prime time, not even close.

Germany is working hard to get a significant chunk of their energy needs from solar power. I wish them well. But I don't think their approach would work in the United States (nor would I want it).  Let me be clear: I do not support wiping out huge swaths of natural habitats casually.  And many of the "renewable energy" solutions propose just that. 

The largest solar-based power plant in the United States does a piddly 80MW of power output and is larger than central park.  That's a lot of space used up.  To put that number in perspective, the crummy old Fermi nuclear power plant in Michigan has a NET capacity of 1,110MW and uses a lot less space.  Newer ones could do much more in less space (Fermi is over 40 years old). 

According to their stats, the solar plant uses over 1,000 acres of land to provide 0.45% of California's electrical needs.  To produce enough for California's electrical needs, a field that is 350 square miles would be needed. By contract, the area needed for ANWR drilling is 3 square miles. 1/100th as much and that area isn't even contiguous (which amazingly environmentalists argue is a "bad" thing).

In other words, environmentalists will happily let 350 square miles of wilderness be wiped out for solar power but freak out about 3 square miles for drilling in the wilderness in the middle of nowhere. 

Someone who says that solar power will get much better is correct -- it will get better.  But even at 100% efficiency (which isn't ever going to happen) you're still talking maybe 400MW for that same space. 

In short, solar power plants aren't the solution either.   But they may not need to be for solar to take off.

Instead, what I see happening is that building materials will be made of solar powering properties.  The paint for your house or a spray for your roof might quickly turn your house into a self-sufficient structure.  Not enough sun? No problem. There's solutions for that too.

So while I don't see solar power becoming a major solution through putting tacky, maintenance intensive, habitat destroying, expensive solar panels on the side of highways like they're doing in Germany, I do see a bright future for solar power.  It's just a matter of how long it will take to become practical.

And when that comes, you will see a drastic reduction in power requirements. Combine a largely energy-independent home with a plug-in hybrid and you've reduced nearly 80% of the CO2 (if you're one of those people sweating that) and reduced our "impact" on the planet drastically.

In the meantime, I hope to eventually install some solar panels of some kind onto the roof of our office if I can keep the geese away from them and design my next home to make use of solar power.  I think solar power has made it over the big curve and is starting to become increasingly practical at an accelerated rate.  We'll see.


Comments
on Apr 29, 2007

And as if to help make the case -- found this on Slashdot today:

http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/207415

Ontario is building a solar power plant that has a capacity of 40MW.  It requires 900 acres of land to produce that. It powers 10,000 homes.

Does that sound good to you?  10,000 homes in a typical residential area use around 2,000 acres of space.  In other words, for this plant to work, it requires half again as much space that the actual residential area used (and we're assuminb it's the burbs, if it's remotely city-like area, the power plant would use more space than the residential area does).

If you care about the environment and not just feeling good: THIS IS NOT GOOD. We're taking about wiping out 900 acres of land (currently it's farm land) to produce 40MW.  A typical coal power plant produces about 15 TIMES as much and uses less space.  Seems we could reduce emissions further from coal power plants rather than wipe out massive swaths of land.

I don't want to imply that a solar power plant somehow turns a beautiful country area into an cement floorded area.

Here's one in Germany:

So the impact is something more than a golf course but less than a parking lot.  But I still don't like to see farm land or natural habitats being converted to this.

on Apr 29, 2007
Oh, and I forgot, the power generated by this plant costs EIGHT times as much as other power plants.
on Apr 29, 2007

I agree with most of what you've written, except for this:

In other words, environmentalists will happily let 350 square miles of wilderness be wiped out for solar power but freak out about 3 square miles for drilling in the wilderness in the middle of nowhere.

... where you've made the slight mistake of assuming that environmentalists would let that 350 square miles be wiped out.

Remember, we're talking about environmentalists and they would rather bury their heads in the sand and let absolutely nothing be done.  No solar, no oil, no nukes, no nuthin'.

They don't care that we (and they by extension) have power needs,  they'd prefer that we the human parasites that are destroying the environment live without and go back to the stone age.

Regardless of that though, I'd say I'm a bit of a fan of solar.  If it wasn't so expensive, I'd probably have switched my home to using Solar years ago.  As you point out though, the amount of energy that is generated by solar is pretty minimal relative to the amount of effort put into getting that energy.  It takes a lot of power and resources to make the solar cells, and those cells just aren't that efficient.

There are other ways to get energy out of the sun though, including passive solar heating, solar water heating (and/or pre-heating) and more.  We should be putting more effort into some of those things and yet we don't because we're still too concerned with building homes that are bigger and badder than our neighbors.  We have to have great rooms, living rooms, family rooms, walk-in closets that are bigger than most people's bedrooms when they grew up.  And then we don't concern ourselves with how much it costs to heat and cool those big, bad, homes.

If we as a nation really want to conserve energy we could do a lot of things to help.  One of the first would be setting more realistic limits and expectations for average homes.

Enough ranting for now...  It won't change anything and it just frustrates me to think about the big box homes we keep building all around me.

on Apr 29, 2007
If power were pulled out of thin air, somebody would not like it. Your right Brad, Until someone miniturize the collector (in size and price) it won't catch on widespread.
on Apr 29, 2007
They've been running two programs on the science channel about the sun the last few days. There was one technology covered that used the sun to run a sterling engine, which has been around for quite a while but a company called Stirling Energy Systems Link has made some impressive improvements that are gaining a ot of attention. One of these dishes can power 10 homes seems to me one about the size of those old sat dishes could easily power a single home.

I think the key is not to focus on one technology but to adopt a little of everything depending on whats better in the area that it's needed. Wind energy for windy areas, sun energy for sunny ones, geothermal where there's activity or two or more technologies. Through in a little conservation and we'll be just fine until fusion arrives.



on Apr 29, 2007
Remember, we're talking about environmentalists and they would rather bury their heads in the sand and let absolutely nothing be done. No solar, no oil, no nukes, no nuthin'.
They don't care that we (and they by extension) have power needs, they'd prefer that we the human parasites that are destroying the environment live without and go back to the stone age.


i disagree with this becouse if you remember the rolling blackouts in california


green peace was out every week saying that it was about time couldn't happen to a better state that kind of thing

that was until they got hit by the rolling black out and then it was a conspircy to silence them

so really what they want is for you and me to be without power but not them

and i don't think solar will every work as part of the power grid

but will work as part of the house power ie stick it on your roof not on your farm
on Apr 30, 2007
It’s not the environmentalist pushing for ethanol and solar plants; it’s the government and business trying to hold on to profits and jobs.

Granted the anything but oil crowd in their ignorance is eating it up for the most part but it’s them that are being scammed as well.

Ethanol is an alternative that keeps mostly intact a massive manufacturing, distribution and service infrastructure. Solar power is only viable on a small almost individual scale but where’s the monthly revenue in that?

Yes energy distribution is big business employing millions, and the economy is going to take a big hit if everyone starts charging their car with their own personal wind generator and or solar panel.


on Apr 30, 2007

 I really don't think that solar collection technology is where it needs to be to get much power from it.  They are still working on better solar collection, but it hasn't advanced much in the past 25 years.

Solar is also not ideal in a lot of areas (Michigan, for instance).  It would take you *many* years just to recoup the cost of the system.

i don't think solar will every work as part of the power grid

It's part of the grid in the US right now.  There are plenty of grid connected homes and farms that net meter either solar or wind energy (or both). 

Wind energy is still more viable than solar at this time.  It takes much less space to put up wind generator than it does solar, and they can output a lot more energy.  For a lot of rural areas, wind makes more sense than solar due to the cost.  Most rural home owners have land, so they have the space, and the investment in a wind generator will return itself a lot quicker than solar (unless you are in CA or someplace that gets a tremendous amount of sun year round).

There are a lot of things that we could do to lower energy usage that people just don't do.  We look to other energy sources to supply more energy, but we should be looking to cut down on the current use.  When building their house, most people don't spend time planning insulation, energy efficient windows, controlled venting, insulated concrete for the foundation, passive solar heat, air sealing, etc.  People also typically don't consider placing their windows for best benefit, instead, they are placed for the way they look.  So, we end up having to use more lights (which we typically also don't consider).  Or what about geothermal systems?  They work really well for climates that change a lot (like Michigan), but they are not widely used, nor are there any tax credits for them.

So, in general, alternative energy in the US "isn't ready for prime time...yet"

 

 

 

on Apr 30, 2007
The really major problem with solar power - above and beyond our ability to create efficient solar grids - is that it only works during the day. No city could ever be run off solar power for precisely that reason. We just don't have the battery technology to store excess mains power, and so neither solar nor wind is going to replace coal and nuclear power in the mid- to long-term.
on Apr 30, 2007

Wind energy is still more viable than solar at this time. It takes much less space to put up wind generator than it does solar, and they can output a lot more energy. For a lot of rural areas, wind makes more sense than solar due to the cost. Most rural home owners have land, so they have the space, and the investment in a wind generator will return itself a lot quicker than solar (unless you are in CA or someplace that gets a tremendous amount of sun year round).

Another problem with wind is having it.  Most areas of the US just are not conducive to wind power.  One of the biggest stumbling blocks are trees.  I can see that going over like a lead balloon.  "Cut down your trees to have free power".

I find it amusing that Germany is at the forefront of the Solar power movement as land in Europe is prohibitive in relation to the US.  But then when you think of it, you have about 50% more people in a space that is not as large as the US, so it is the old law of supply and demand.

Solar Power, Wind Power, Nuclear Power (probably fusion if it ever gets back on track) are all good ideas that may one day solve both the energy needs and the polution issues.  Or it may be something else altogether.  I really dont know.  But what I do know is that the solution is not going to come from a government bureacracy or mandate.  It is going to come from economics and innovation of private citizens.

on Apr 30, 2007
It is going to come from economics and innovation of private citizens.



oh no that sounds like capilization some won't like that
on May 12, 2007
One way is to look at making solar power more feasible through better power density, higher energy conversion on solar panels etc.

Another way is to consider how indirect solar can be used to power our future. An example of indirect solar is of course biofuels since all the biofuels are formed using solar energy as the base.

Of particular interest in biofuels could be biofuels derived from species such as algae that have very high yields and have many advantages over traditional oilseeds.

Here's an interesting article/editorial on oil & energy from algae ( http://www.oilgae.com/ref/oth/oilgae_editorial.html ). The editorial is essentially questioning why more focus and research dollars are not being spent on deriving oil, biodiesel and ethanol from algae...

It is interesting because the article states that algae appear to be the most biofuels feedstock, and is far more productive in terms of yield than palm or soy - in fact it says algae as feedstock are over 100 times more productive than soy! From the info presented, it appears that algae present the most realistic chance of being able to completely replace petro-fuels with biofuels. It is also interesting to note that the fossil oil we are using today was formed mainly from algae!

An insightful article for all those interested in suatainable alternative and renewable energy.

Read the full article from here @ Oilgae.com - http://www.oilgae.com/ref/oth/oilgae_editorial.html