Actually Draginol, you are aware of the current trade problems between the US and the EU. One of the major stickling blocks is the illegal tax conxessions the US gives to it's companies. This definitely counts as corporate welfare and is estimated at nearly 40 billion US dollars a year worldwide. That's NOT tiny.

In general though I do agree that some method of encouraging or even forcing people out of welfare (forcing them to get off there arses, not punishing them for trying and failing) would be good. In Europe we have much much higher levels of welfare and it can be a major problem. Not alone can single mothers spend the rest of their lives on welfare they also get free houses. There is no incentive for them ever to go back to work and no balancing between the needs of their children for a parent at home versus the needs for society not to be lumbered with huge tax bills. I personally would support a form of contraceptive for welfare recipients and students, so long as it's applied fairly (male and female alike) and leaves no long term medical issues. I would also support much better welfare support than that you're currently complaining about though!

Paul.

"Honestly, if we are not paying this way, we will pay in other ways."--joetheblow

Very true, and a fact that is often forgotten.

If someone drop out of high school because it's too easy for them, however intelligent they think they are, they are lacking in common sense, foresight and discipline.

I was in the accelerated track for my high school for english, math, science and social studies. I took Spanish for all 4 years (and had studied for a year before in eighth grade), and every single year of Spanish failed to challenge me because the teachers had to hold back the classes for the lowest common denominator. There was a small group of us who were taking Spanish because we loved it and we learned a lot on our own. But even Spanish 5, which was supposed to prepare us for the Advanced Placement Spanish test didn't challenge us. If I had had to take all of my other non-elective courses as the non-accelerated classes, I would have gone insane. The accelerated track was hard, but I knew that it would pay off. It did. I placed out of a whole semester of credit at Lawrence Tech and got a scholarship that paid for all of my classes, minus book and lab fees.

My point is, if you're not being challenged at school, you need to challenge yourself. If you can't have the self-discipline to make it through high school, you're just going to keep on having problems the rest of your life, and you're going to keep blaming other people and circumstances supposedly outside of your controll. If you can't rely on yourself, who can you rely on? And if you give up, you might as well give up breathing, because you're already dead.

"If someone drop out of high school because it's too easy for them, however intelligent they think they are, they are lacking in common sense, foresight and discipline."--CariElf

How so? You are making an awful lot of assumptions.

"My point is, if you're not being challenged at school, you need to challenge yourself."

Why do you assume that the intelligent ones don't do exactly that?

"If you can't have the self-discipline to make it through high school"

Why do you assume that it is lack of self-discipline that causes them to drop out?

What do "intelligent" people accomplish by doing nothing? By the way, if I go: "Man everything's too easy for me, so I'm not going to do anything, because it's not challenging." does that sound more like I'm super intelligent or I'm just lazy?

Where does this assumption of doing nothing come from? How does dropping out of HS mean that you are lazy or lack self-discipline and will do nothing with the rest of your life? Like I said earlier, some HS dropouts are very intelligent and have achieved what most would define as "success".

"Man everything's too easy for me, so I'm not going to do anything, because it's not challenging." does that sound more like I'm super intelligent..."

No it doesn't, and I never made that claim did I?

"I've never met an intelligent high school drop out. And the statistics on poverty certainly don't help their case either."

Would you consider me intelligent? Er, wait - that might be a loaded question.

I'm a HS dropout. I don't deny it. I suppose I didn't drop out of HS for the same reason most people do though. Why did I drop out? Because HS -was- boring the hell out of me, and even though I was in the so called "advanced" classes they were still teaching me the EXACT same things I'd been learning for the past three years.

So, I dropped out - and got my GED and went to college. Same year.

Yes, I dropped out of HS so that I could go to college.

No, the claim is that intelligent people drop out of high school for a good reason, but I have yet to hear of a good reason.

Good reasons to drop out of HS:

1. You aren't learning anything. Perhaps you go to a school where there are no advanced or AP courses.
2. You know that your time could be better spent doing something else. For example, traveling, taking college courses, earning money for something you consider to be important, volunteering etc.

1) Transfer to a school that has advanced or AP courses. What if they aren't learning anything in college? Do they then drop out of college and go to work? What if they learn nothing there? Quit and retire?
2) If high school is so easy for them, then they could do those things (including taking college courses as I did when I was in high school) while still in high school. Besides, if it's so easy for them, they can graduate in their junior year.

It sounds like plain ol' laziness to me.

Messy Buu, I provide perfectly good reasons to drop out of HS. I could give the obivious responses to what you just posted, but I am sure you (and everyone else) already has a pretty good idea what those would be.

Refusing to waste your time on something that has no value to you is not laziness. If anything, it's just the opposite.

Well call me a dummy. I also dropped out of high school. I dropped out of high school when I was 16, without my parents knowing. I was/am very intelligent, and thought I was above high school. To me, high school was nothing but a finishing school, or charm school. To many cliques, and to many snobby people. So, I dropped out, 2 weeks later I took the G.E.D. test, and passed with flying colors. That fall I started my first year of college. Graduated at 20 with a B. A. in social work. I got a job as a social worker, and couldn't sleep at night because I was worrying about other people's problems. At 21 I adopted a child, and at 22 I was very very close to adopting another one. I realized that I would burn myself out if I continued to work as a social worker. I went back to school, this time to get a B. S. in nursing. 2 months in the semester my son had a fish-hook in his finger. I took him to the emergency room, and almost fainted at the sight of them removing the hook from his finger. I knew then that I would never make it as a nurse, so I changed my major to Allied Health. With my B. A. in Social work, and my B. S. in Allied Health, I know work as a Social Worker in a hospital. I like the job, it's not as stressful as social work. Now, I'm thinking my fulfilling a childhood dream of being a librarian. I think I will make a good librarian, I love books, and I love helping people. I think I did good for myself, a drop out at 16, and now that I'm 28, I have 2 B. A's's, and I'm thinking of getting my masters in Library Science. Draginol, I'll do my article on corporate welfare, then you'll see what I mean.

I can't think of a good reason. Besides, I've never considered somebody who dropped out of college to go to work to be intelligent, unless it's a once in a lifetime job.

Say what?

You can't think of a good reason someone would drop out of college to work?
1)
Family.

2)
Food

3)
Place to live

4)
Pay for college


...without food, it is really hard to study. without a place to live it is pretty hard to study.


5)
Debt

6)
Falling on hard times



Anyway, about corporate welfare: I hope you show some numbers because corporate welfare dollars is not as high as welfare/workfare dollars.

And as Draginol presented, it is more fathomable to argue that welfare/workfare does not benefit society as much as corporate welfare does.

First, to Draginol: I humbly suggest you do more research, and not just looking up statistics on the internet, on Welfare. Granted, the entire system needs a lot of work, but there are so many issues that they could never be addressed in one thread/blog. The system is there to help people get back on their feet, and it is abused in many different ways. I agree that there are so many deadbeats abusing the system that it appears there are more of them than legitimate needy. Because of this, and because of the fact that news programs latch onto bad news before good news, we are exposed to more of the 'bad eggs' than the success stories that come from the welfare system.

I personally agree that those that have no common sense, are raised on welfare and know no other way of life, or those that abuse the system need the proverbial smack to the head for a wake up call. I'm tired of seeing all these kids following a welfare mom and getting free food for being pregnant with the next member of the litter. Forced contraception won't work for several reasons. First, it's deemed unconstitutional from many standpoints. Second, there are more women who cannot tolerant implants (like Norplant) or DepoProvera shots than those who can. Though in the long run the doctor visits to assess which kind are more tolerable and procedures etc would be less than raising children, it isn't right for anyone to be forced to tolerate implants or injections that may or may not completely imbalance their systems.

Second, to Messy Buu and anyone else ignorant enough to lump all HS dropouts into do-nothings: You are speaking only from personal experience at best, and have no right to pass judgement upon anyone else who may or may not have dropped out of high school. I finished high school, but to be honest I did so because it was the only thing to do with my time, having grown up 45 miles from any other semi-stimulating activity. I graduated one year before the programs went nation wide that allowed high school students to start taking college courses while still in their junior or senior year, and I feel like I missed out on that. If there had been any other option open to me, I would have dropped out of high school because yes, it was boring, I didn't learn anything relevant to my future during most of my senior year that I couldn't learn on my own. In many ways, it was a waste of time. Think on this for a moment: how many places have you worked for that actually ask to see your diploma or other proof of graduation from high school? I've had a few jobs, and none have asked. After reading this thread last night, I asked a few folks I work with today..none of them have either. In fact, colleges I've attended haven't asked either!

High school in this country to anyone that is intelligent enough is a joke. During my sophomore year, I wanted badly to be an exchange student in Europe because of their higher teaching standards. I dreamed of going to University in Germany.

I will agree that there are a lot of dropouts that are lazy, stupid, and a drain on society in general. To lump all dropouts into this category is extremely ignorant though, and I'm willing to bet that there are far more people you've met that are dropouts than you can imagine at this point. I know there is a list somewhere of famous intelligent people, Einstein and Edison just to name a couple.