Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
A solution for health care insurance
Published on October 6, 2007 By Draginol In Democrat

The far left in the United States are outraged that Bush vetoed the bill that would have provided "free" health insurance to minors.

When these discussions get going, I am always amazed that the obvious solution isn't taken: Start charities that provide health insurance to the "needy".

It wouldn't be that hard to do.  Those who really feel strongly about paying for health insurance for other people could donate to these charities. Then, those who wanted said health insurance would send in their past year's tax return along with proof of children and then be given health insurance for that child. 

These kinds of charities already exist for people who have a random illness like cancer, breast cancer, childhood diseases, etc.  So what is the difference?  The difference from my limited research is that most of these charities and their fund raising are performed by conservatives (particularly religious conservatives). 

As was documented in the excellent book "Who really cares" American liberals have replaced concrete action with political belief.  To them, posting a blog or protesting or some other symbolic but ultimately futile gesture is the same as actually doing something.

For this reason, American liberals are much more inclined to support federal government provided projects for the needy because it takes the burden of having to do anything to back up their political beliefs.  The sacrifice and effort is transferred to other people (typically people who disagree with their views and are hence demonized by the left even as those they demonized are, as a practical matter, the ones actually doing the doing).

It is a pity conservatives aren't more inclined to step up and ask "Why not start a charity?" when an advocate of a socialist policy starts railing for some new government welfare program.  After all, the left routinely says "Why don't you volunteer for the military?" when a conservative supports US foreign policy.


Comments (Page 6)
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on Oct 08, 2007
What kind of policy should we get the children? A bare bones one, or a big fancy one with all the trimmings? What are we trying to do for them?

Also, what are we trying to do for the adults? What kind of care is enough care? Is a catastrophic plan enough for free, or do we need to give them free regular check-ups, too?

"That's only a fact if you include children of illegal immigrants. Do you support our taxes providing health insurance to them as well?"

This makes no sense after you asked her where the line was drawn. The line, it seems, is drawn around our borders, but includes anyone in them - regardless of immigration status.
on Oct 08, 2007
We’re seeing some moderation in health-cost increases, but premiums for family coverage now top $12,000 annually,” Kaiser President and CEO Drew E. Altman, Ph.D. said.


OK. So Blue Cross/Blue Shield lied to me. Gotcha.

What you're arguing, then, is not that every American deserves basic health insurance, but we all deserve top of the line, low deductible health care coverage. Well, taking a look at countries who HAVE socialized medicine, you'll quickly see they don't have top of the line care. In fact, cacto all but admitted they allow the elderly to die because it's not cost efficient to treat them.

Throwing out average figures as if they were typical is intellectually dishonest, Loca. If someone took out catastrophic insurance and put the difference between that and quality insurance into a health care savings account, they could quickly build up assets instead of making the insurance companies wealthier.
on Oct 08, 2007

If you read all the comments that was in response to "liberals want to start all these programs and make ME pay for it". They are not talking about getting a bill in the mail, they are talking about their taxes. My point is that whatever goverment programs a liberal supports, they are paying taxes for it too.

As was pointed out to you eariler, conservatives pay the overwhelming % of taxes (7 to 3). 

Yet liberals claim to be the compassionate ones because they favor programs that they don't even remotely come close to shouldering the majority of the burden to pay for and are stingy at supporting charities to boot.

on Oct 08, 2007

You pay to educate other people's children. Do you think only people with children enrolled in public school should have to pay taxes?

It's an apples and oranges comparison.

But let me first remind you that I already pointed out that if we took the position that we only paid taxes on things we supported that we'd have an extremely conservative government.  So I don't think that's a track you want to take.

Secondly, I would be perfectly happy, as a father of 3 children in public school, to pay for their schooling in exchange for having a choice of where to send my chidlren to.

Third, the benefits to society of having an educated population are pretty straight forward and well proven.  The benefits of society of overhauling our entire health care system in a way that might ahve very negative consequences so that we can provide money to the losers who can't or won't take responsibility for providing health care to their children is, at best, unproven.

I already provide health care insurance to people. Right now. I resent the idea that I should have to pay for insurance for other people. 

If they were born here, they are citizens and have the same right as any other citizen.

Oye.  So now it's my job to work to have my property looted from me to be handed over to illegal aliens to give to their children. How compassionate of you.

 

on Oct 08, 2007
What you're arguing, then, is not that every American deserves basic health insurance, but we all deserve top of the line, low deductible health care coverage.


No, what I'm arguing is that my statistic of the "average cost of insurance in the United States for a family of four is $11,000" is accurate.
on Oct 08, 2007
the last i checked liberals want to raise taxes on the rich. are you rich loco


loaded - NOT. I am very middle class. The increase in Schip is supposed to be paid for by an increased cigarette tax of .61 per pack anyway and we all know that more poor people smoke so they'll be paying for it themselves. Ha.
on Oct 08, 2007
As was pointed out to you eariler, conservatives pay the overwhelming % of taxes (7 to 3).


I was responding to Dr. Guy's assertion that tax isn't charity and that my response wasn't "substantive". I get it - rich people are more conservative because they don't want to lose what they have. Poor people are liberal because we're spending "your" money. Or as one of my coworkers said - you are only liberal until you have something to lose. Or if you are 20 and not a liberal, you don't have a heart, if you're 50 and not conservative, you don't have a head.
on Oct 08, 2007
Third, the benefits to society of having an educated population are pretty straight forward and well proven. The benefits of society of overhauling our entire health care system in a way that might ahve very negative consequences so that we can provide money to the losers who can't or won't take responsibility for providing health care to their children is, at best, unproven.


You see this is the issue. I think it benefits our society for all children to have healthcare coverage which I believe is a prerequisite to quality medical care in our country. I don't think the children should be punished if their parents are "losers". I also do not think that all families who do not have insurance are selfish or losers. If your employer does not offer insurance, it is a huge expense. One that I think is necessary, even if it's a bare bones policy that would only cover a hospitalization but if a family can't afford it, they can't afford it. You're first priority is providing, food, clothing and shelter for your family. If there isn't enough left for health insurance, what do you do?

Also I don't think a government subsidy to pay for insurance for kids who do not have insurance is "overhauling our entire healthcare system".

I already provide health care insurance to people. Right now. I resent the idea that I should have to pay for insurance for other people.


Which is great but the fact still is that 20% of U.S. workers cannot get insurance through their employers. I am sure that your workers are more loyal and value their jobs if it offers good benefits.

Oye. So now it's my job to work to have my property looted from me to be handed over to illegal aliens to give to their children. How compassionate of you.


That's the law of the land, if you are born in the U.S. you are a citizen with all the rights of any other U.S. citizen.
on Oct 08, 2007
No, what I'm arguing is that my statistic of the "average cost of insurance in the United States for a family of four is $11,000" is accurate.


No, you were actually using those figures to justify why the cap should be set insanely high (by using the emotional plea that the $11,000 was 1/4 of the pre-tax wage of a family making $50,000/year). The implication was pretty clear that average was the minimum standard you would accept for those families.

The truth is, with your hypothetical $50,000/year family, assuming they don't have insurance through work (in that wage range, most who are not self employed or independent contractors DO have insurance), they could get a quite reasonable plan for half of that average, meaning the situation isn't nearly as dire as you'd like to make it out to be.
on Oct 08, 2007
No my point is not that the government should pay $1000 per month for insurance, my point was that many uninsured are uninsured because they cannot afford insurance even if they are middle class. Such as the example from the Baltimore sun article whose combined income is $45,000 but their insurance premiums at $1200 a month would be more than their house payment. Dad is self-employed. Mom's job doesn't offer insurance. Those are the children this plan is meant to cover.
on Oct 08, 2007
My point is that whatever goverment programs a liberal supports, they are paying taxes for it too.


But the topic is Liberals starting charities. SO again, can we get back on topic and tell us why Liberals think Taxes are charity, or why liberals dont like charity?
on Oct 08, 2007
Such as the example from the Baltimore sun article whose combined income is $45,000 but their insurance premiums at $1200 a month would be more than their house payment.


You're proving my point. The option of getting a lower priced insurance policy doesn't even seem to occur to you.

I just ran the numbers in Baltimore, assuming they are 45 years old or less. Most policies are FAR below the $1200/month mark. The $2500 deductible plan (which they should get; they'd make up their deductible in 3 months of what they're paying in premiums currently) is $291...1/4 of what they're currently paying. A $100 deductible comes in at $974...more than $200 LESS!

But because they're middle class, they shouldn't have to shop the market, right? Taxpayers should foot the bill!
on Oct 08, 2007
oh...AND...extended maternity is included in BOTH of those plans!
on Oct 08, 2007
the last i checked liberals want to raise taxes on the rich. are you rich loco


loaded - NOT. I am very middle class. The increase in Schip is supposed to be paid for by an increased cigarette tax of .61 per pack anyway and we all know that more poor people smoke so they'll be paying for it themselves. Ha.


there won't be enough money in that so you'll still have to raise income taxes.
on Oct 08, 2007
"Insurance premiums have increased 78% since 2001, compared to a 19% increase in wages and a 17% increase in inflation. A recent report showed that the average cost of coverage for a family of four is already more than $12,000 a year."


So let me get this straight. Although this is a quote, you think we should regulate the cost of health care (Jytheir did a very good article on what Insurance actually is)?

And how would we go about that, and where would we start telling people "Sorry, you are too expensive to treat, so we cant treat you"? (for the last see GB and why they wont treat some people).
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