Hey Gid,

Thank you for these three links. I have read them. It would seem the crux is that Al Gore really should not live in a mansion, albeit and old one in which he has put in solar panelsis and is otherwise renovating to become more energy efficient. Instead what? A new house the Average Joe lives in? And he flies jets, even private jets? I guess he should walk and swim to London? New York?

I think the replies in your second link were interesting and balanced. As one responder pointed out, anyone can buy carbon credits and do some things that make a difference. It would be a good idea if we all did.

Lastly, I suspect anyone in the forefront of such a issue would be well advised to take a look at their own behavior, and apparently Gore has, but not enough to assuage his adversaries, but if he went the lengths of say, Gandhi, they'd be calling him nuts. From my own ppoint of view, hwe has not done enough in his own life, but then, I'm a monk, what can I say.

See ya!  

With any luck, when we will begin - really begin - solving the problem, simply solving the balance will tip strongly in our favor, and the corrections will be way quicker than planned - like with the Ozone layer -. But I would not make a bet on it.

But, how can anyone really say that what humans do actually makes a difference in "global warming" or the "ozone" or anything at all?  I think that we are polluting the hell out of ourselves, but that has nothing to do with the idea of man made global warming.

Yep, the climate is changing.  However, why do people think that they have so much power over mother nature to think that it is caused by us?  Could it simply be because the sun is more active?  (Remember all the sun spots that have been recking havoc on satellite transmissions?)

I grew up in northern MI.  During the 70's, we would get so much snow that you would literally get snowed in over night and not even be able to see the cars in the driveway.  Each year, the seasons have been getting less and less extreme.  However, other parts of the US have seen changes in weather, too, and it's not all a warming trend.  Why is it not possible that the Earth is simply continuing to change as it always has?  I mean, many parts of the world were covered in ice, and the land masses were in different places.  Were humans responsible for those changes, too?

I think that we (humans) are horrible polluters, and we're killing ourselves by living in our own pollution.  However, I also feel that Mother nature is stronger than any of us, and is just doing what she does.  The Earth changes, and we have very little effect on the end result.

In the end, it won't matter.  People want things to change, but they won't change themselves.  There are too many Gore's in the world- Do what I say even though I don't do it myself. 

sodaiho,

The idea is patently absurd, if you think about it. Waste as much as you want, just as long as you write a check? That does nothing to help the planet.

As for Mr. Gore, have you not heard of commercial airlines? If you must fly, it would make sense to fly with more people so you create less of an impact. And the energy he is using at his house could be fed into the grid if he weren't so self indulgent. I must note this is only ONE of Mr. Gore's houses.

He's demanding the rest of the planet live like luddites, but he's justifying his own excess. Come on, sodaiho. You have lived off the grid, you know what it means to live an eco-friendly lifestlye. How do you justify the excesses of people like Al Gore, who demand we are in a crisis yet refuse to make personal sacrifices? Aren't they precisely what is wrong with this nation?

Back to carbon credits...what exactly are they doing? Making other people rich, feeding the greed of those who capitalize off of the environmental movement for profit. They're everything you decry in most of your philosophy, yet you're willing to give a pass to them here?

Why am I supposed to freeze my kids out in the winter to save a few pennies on our electric bill, which has never been over $75 in a given month, while Gore spends thousands of dollars a month on his?

Until LEADERS of the environmental movement live like there's a crisis, they'll have a hard time convincing me, for one, of the sincerity of their position.

That's about what we are. An annoying itch on the ass of the world.

even if they surpass you, they will be far - faaaaaaaaaaaaar- from being higher than you for CO2/capita. And they aren't going to lift a finger if USA doesn't either. Lead by example. And I heard a lot that "global warming is just a socialist plot to weaken america" on this website. If it is such of a weakening to america, then why most the european countries that managed to mee Kyoto's accords actually have a better economical health than America? U.K. is doing pretty well, as far as I've seen.

Wow. That's a really dumb statement.

First, I don't grant that CO2 is a problem.  My objection to CO2 limiting has nothing to do with "socialist" plots, rather it has to do with my opinion that it's stupid and pointless and will costly.

Secondly, on what planet are you from where higher unemployment and lower GDP growth means better? The economies of western Europe suck relative to the United States.

Third, have you looked at the CO2 emission growth from Western Europe? It's not going down. It's increasing. They're not even close to abiding by the Kyoto accords -- and they signed them.

you're not even trying. Get a better fuel-efficient car. Try co-driving (I don't know the name in english. You know, when you share the car of someone else to get to work?). Ask for more public transportations in your community, like suburbian trains, buses and metro.

This represents a profound ignorance of the United States.  Public transportation works great for cities. But the US isn't like Europe. Look at a map of the United States. It doesn't even remotely have the population density to make public transportation practical. In fact, if it were implemented, it would result in more pollution because few people would use them because of the time inefficiencies. (I love your statement about suburbian trains, talk about being out of touch).

And I do know that if you sum up all the CO2 emmission in the world, the nature itself is emmiting about 80% of the greenhouse gases. What is actually threatened is the BALANCE between the emmissions and the Earth's capacity to absorb. The same that global warming is a problem of balance between heating and cooling. This balance is working on inertia, and even changes right now would take years before seeing any effects. But no changes now would still take years before seeing real actual dangers to mankind. Right now, we are simply seeing minor signs: drying of rivers (St-Lawrence is lower than ever), islands getting smaller, melting of polar ice cap.

And here I thought the sun might be involved in determining fluctuations in temperature too.   But no, it's the balance between our emissions and the earth's aborbition capacity of CO2.  And your evidence of this is...what?

Thank you for these three links. I have read them. It would seem the crux is that Al Gore really should not live in a mansion, albeit and old one in which he has put in solar panelsis and is otherwise renovating to become more energy efficient. Instead what? A new house the Average Joe lives in? And he flies jets, even private jets? I guess he should walk and swim to London? New York?

He did not begin to make his house more efficient until after he got called out on this.  During the time he was making "An inconvenient truth" he had a house that used 20X as much energy as the normal house.

The private jets and such I can give Gore a pass on. But the fact he did zilch prior to being called out about his own lifestyle speaks volumes.

Hey there Draginol,

The 20X use issue is interesting. As I read the report in (I think it was Gid's first link) the Gore home used as much as typical home in that region per sq. ft. No more or less. I will grant you that he should have done better, that he didn't, who knows. But, we should not kill the messinger because his feet are dirty.

See ya!

Sometimes I think I'd be better off in that mountain monastery of mine. Its so much quieter there. On the other hand, if I were there, I wouldn't be here talking with you.

A bow to you.

Be well.

lets see


bush is anti environment. his ranch is Geo thermally heated and cooled. he got lucky and his house was built over a hot spring.


al gore is for the environment. one of his houses he spends more than the people in my neighborhood. that would be he spends more in a month than we do in a year.

Yes, that would be correct Daniel, big houses require more power than little houses.

Big houses are not necessary, and if you REALLY think we are headed for armegeddon with Global warming, why are YOU not concerned about your energy usage? (you being whatever clown talks the talk, and cant be bothered to walk the walk).

I am not concerned, so I will be happy to take over Al gore's Palace.

And they say it is not a religion.

Yea, uh huh.

Yes, that would be correct Daniel, big houses require more power than little houses.

Do you consider 4000 sq ft little?  Here's what it looks like to me, Bush is actually DOING something with personal conservation instead of going around, partying with celebs, telling the little people what they should and shouldn't be doing.  Gore lives in a masion that uses a years worth of energy in a month.  He jets all over the world and then expects people to take him seriously when he tells them to quit driving their SUV.

If you understood the principle of carbon-credit market, you would not say that. The idea is exactly that: buy credits, and the "polluting responsability" will be shifted to the seller.

The idea behind carbon-credit is economic efficiency, in order to make it more profitable (and less costly) to people (read: businesses) who pollute a lot and want to change their equipment, while allowing the people who pollute - but that it would be impratical for them to change their equipment altogether - to simply buy the excess carbon credit out of the companies that have them.

That way, it creates the economic advantage of being a non-polluter, or even create ways to absorb the CO2 in the air (canadian company have invented such patent). Before the credit-carbon market, nobody would have had any advantage to invent such patent (no money to make).

DrGuy, I agree with you here. (But I do think Gore's home renovations point to that concern, regardless of WHEN he did them) Still, big houses, in fact houses themselves, are not as necessary as we make them out to be. I live in a small condo. I am happy here. I wish I had more control over my utilities than I do, though. I wish they would let me garden. I wish they would let me compost. (They being the Condo Association). But it is an existing structure and not a built for me structure so I make due and I do what I can.

My Little Honey, on the other hand, wants a house. So, Little Honeys being what they are, our condo is for sale. We could move back to the mountains, but winter approaches and the temps at 9000 feet are a tad chilly. When we do buy another house, I plan to install solar panels, a water collection system, like the one I have on our mountain house, and other little environmentally friendly items.

See ya.

buy an empty lot.

JillUser: Do you consider 4000 sq ft little? Here's what it looks like to me, Bush is actually DOING something with personal conservation instead of going around, partying with celebs, telling the little people what they should and shouldn't be doing. Gore lives in a masion that uses a years worth of energy in a month. He jets all over the world and then expects people to take him seriously when he tells them to quit driving their SUV.

Sorry, I am lost here. I do not think 4000' is little. Its very large and as a result takes more energy, even when fitted with energy saving components, than say a house like mine (960 sq ft) I admire the Bush family for doing what they did. Their home sounds just right, though I cannot imagine living in Texas. He jets all over the world for his work. What, you expect him to walk? Bush jets as well. And so?

People really need to evaluate the message and not misplace so much energy on the personality.

Be well.