Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
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Published on October 28, 2007 By Draginol In Politics

Often in debates you see Demcorats argue that we need to raise taxes in order to help society.

Hillary Clinton said it best:

“We’re going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good.”

This is the kind of thinking one would expect from people who don't have the foggiest understanding of real-world economics.

First, some facts to begin with:

  1. The wealthiest income earners 10% pay the vast majority of the taxes (nearly 3/4ths of it).
  2. The wealthiest income earners work harder and consume far less than their means than on average. (see this Washington Post article for specifics)
  3. Our tax system punishes earned income while ignoring investment income and the "idle rich". (hence, we call it the "INCOME" tax).

According to Democrats running for President, we should confiscate the earnings of the most successful Americans and have the government spend it instead of them.  That's precisely how taxes work. We take earnings from one person and then have the government decide how those earnings will be spent instead.

The result is that we are left with a stark choice: Who do you think will make better use of a dollar?

It's a subjective question and I invite you to invest all of your subjective prejudices to the question. Who do you think will do more to benefit society with that dollar? Who do you think will generate the most properity with that dollar? Who do you think will help the poor most with that dollar? Who do you think will create the most jobs with that dollar? And so on.

Let's look at the "rich" and the government.  Make sure you've read the linked to article from the Washington Post. But if that's not enough, you can do your own research on the net as to the demographic info on "the rich" really is.  It's not unknown. Similarly, who decides how money is spent by the government is not unknown.

The case for the rich.  The highest income earners have already demonstrated the ability to take that dollar and turn it into many dollars. That is how their income is derived in the first place by definition.  They indisputably are able to generate wealth and use the money in ways that benefits society since their money must necessarily come from other people voluntarily purchasing a product, good, or service from them.  This creates jobs. Creates opportunities. Helps people across the entire economic spectrum.

The case for the government.  Congress decides where money is going to be spent. Congress is made up of 100 senators and 435 representatives.  Their qualification for making these vast decisions is that they were elected. Period.  Moreover, while the "rich" group includes millions of people making individual decisions based on very adapted circumstances, the government's arbiters number exactly 535 (536 if you include the President and his veto). Conservatives complain that politicians are incompetent and corrupt.  Liberals complain that politicans are bought off by "big business". In either case, there is absolutely no requirement that one of these 535 people have the slightest inkling of how economics works (as Hilary Clinton made obvious in her idiotic statement quoted at the start of this article).

If the rich make poor decisions with their money, they cease being rich.  If politicians make poor decisions with money, they simply ask for more money in the form of higher taxes.  In other words, one has an incentive to use money well, the other has an incentive to be wasteful with money.

So next time you see a politician argue that we need to take money from "the rich" in order to help society, think carefully about who is really helping society more.


Comments (Page 2)
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on Oct 29, 2007
What do you think of the saying, "Supply creates its own demand?" As in, I might "demand" a diamond-encrusted keyboard and daily pizza, but that doesn't make them spring into existence unless I actually produce something that's worth trading for them. I really think its supply that drives the economy, and demand is only important if it gets ahead of or behind what the economy is producing.


No almost ALL economists agree it is DEMAND that is the real driver. The supply side economics which Reagan tried in the 1980's resulted in a $3 trillion increase in the National debt. Bush tried the very same thing and he will have added $4 Trillion to the debt. Supply side does create some growth. However the rate of growth from supply side policies no not increases the economy enough to balance the budget.
on Oct 29, 2007
Thus the wealthy got a triple whammy-- Big tax cuts, higher wages and increased wealth from the investments! YES the wealthy are pleased with Bush and the GOP Congress!


You didn't answer the question, you just blamed the rich again.  What are people who are supposedly "poor" doing to get out of their situation?  Obviously not much.

Should the government regulate wages, should they redistrubte income to people you think should have it? 

Successful Americans working hard to be successful and better their lives is somehow wrong to you.  Increasing your wealth is not a crime gene, even though people like you wish it would be.  You think all rich people just sit on the beach all day and don't work for their money.

The fact is poor people rarely try to get out of their situations, and rely on the government for assistance instead of bettering themselves. 


on Oct 29, 2007
You didn't answer the question, you just blamed the rich again. What are people who are supposedly "poor" doing to get out of their situation? Obviously not much.

You ignore the fact that there are many jobs that pay wages that do not allow those that have them to get out of being poor. Even if Mr. Smith does move up to a job paying more, another worker will take the job paying less. I believe everyone should strive to do better. that does not alter the fact that many of these new jobs are in the service area and pay wages that place the workers in the bottom of the financial ladder. The people who have these jobs have no control of the fact that wages are not going uo not the increase in prices for essentials such as food and gas.

The point I made about what has taken place during the past 7 year to the three basic economic groups is correct and only the wealthy have done well.
on Oct 29, 2007

You ignore the fact that there are many jobs that pay wages that do not allow those that have them to get out of being poor. Even if Mr. Smith does move up to a job paying more, another worker will take the job paying less.

I don't ignore that fact, it's just not my responsibility to manage someone elses life.  Said person can find another job, get a second or third job, or do a number of things to better their life.  Raising taxes on the rich will not help anyone get out of poverty, only they can do that for themselves.  It's not the governments responsibility to take care of people who can do it themselves.

You keep ignoring the questions.  Do you seriously want a nanny state where we have to pay for people who are too lazy to work?  Do you want the government regulating everyones wages and distributing them?


The point I made about what has taken place during the past 7 year to the three basic economic groups is correct and only the wealthy have done well.

The wealthy do well because they work for their success.  If you don't better yourself, spend beyond your means, and leech off the government, then of course you won't do better.  Once again, the federal government is not responsible for your personal wealth. 

 

on Oct 29, 2007
You keep ignoring the questions. Do you seriously want a nanny state where we have to pay for people who are too lazy to work? Do you want the government regulating everyones wages and distributing them?


I have noticed that lately of some of the more liberal members around here. They apparently try baffling with BS, but when called on it, they ignore the questioner.
on Oct 29, 2007

I have noticed that lately of some of the more liberal members around here. They apparently try baffling with BS, but when called on it, they ignore the questioner.

If they want income redistribution then fine, just be honest about it.  All I have been hearing since this S-CHIP nonsense is how we must "help" everyone.  Why?  Why do we need to help people that are capable of helping themselves?  Why must we keep increasing social programs that do nothing but keep people dependent on government?

 

on Oct 29, 2007

If they want income redistribution then fine, just be honest about it. All I have been hearing since this S-CHIP nonsense is how we must "help" everyone. Why? Why do we need to help people that are capable of helping themselves? Why must we keep increasing social programs that do nothing but keep people dependent on government?

Great questions, and gets back to a question/issue I raised before about being careful about what incentives we provide to people in this country, or who might come to this country.

If we let the government do too much, then people will sit back on their lazy butts and do nothing and just accept what the government gives them.  True some people will continue to work harder and be more creative and innovative in an effort to make more, but they may also decide 'to hell with this' and just take a break in favor of not handing too much of their own wealth over to the government.  In the end, the government will see less revenue come in, and more demands placed on it to take care of the demands and needs of those that are now relying on it for everything and you just start a cycle of seemingly never-ending dependency on the government such as Welfare had been before the great Welfare reform that was done thanks to the GOP during {Bubba} Clinton's term in office.

on Oct 29, 2007
The wealthy do well because they work for their success. If you don't better yourself, spend beyond your means, and leech off the government, then of course you won't do better. Once again, the federal government is not responsible for your personal wealth.

The top 10% are in a financial position where they can pay slightly more in taxes to help meet the obligations of this country. The shift in wealth since Bush took over is not healthy for the country. Too much of the wealth is concentrated in the top 10% and too many do not have enough for a basic existence. There was an article in this Sunday's paper that said more and more families simply run out of money each month BEFORE the end of the month while others sit on ever growing wealth because of the policies we are following. As the title of my book clearly says, George W. Bush Robin Hood For the Rich.
on Oct 29, 2007


The top 10% are in a financial position where they can pay slightly more in taxes to help meet the obligations of this country.

Slightly more in taxes? Try 100X more.

What do you think are the obligations of this contry? And why is it the job of the federal government to meet those obligations?

 

on Oct 29, 2007

The top 10% are in a financial position where they can pay slightly more in taxes to help meet the obligations of this country.

How many times are you going to avoid the questions?  Who are you to decide who can pay what? 

 

There was an article in this Sunday's paper that said more and more families simply run out of money each month BEFORE the end of the month while others sit on ever growing wealth because of the policies we are following.

And?

If you think someone is "running out of money", it's not because of Bush or the policies, it's because they are spending beyond their means and not supplementing their income.  This is typical liberal BS of blaming the government for their own financial irresponsibility.

So someone has wealth, and someone doesn't.  Do you want redistributed income?

 

As the title of my book clearly says, George W. Bush Robin Hood For the Rich.

And?  Because you falsely title your book, what are we supposed to do. 

And as the title of my book says......Let liberals pay for their own nanny state.

on Oct 29, 2007
As the title of my book clearly says, George W. Bush Robin Hood For the Rich.


robin hood did not rob from the rich. he robbed from the government. they happened to be the same people but.
on Oct 29, 2007
As the title of my book says," less taxes on the people that employ other people means more actual revenues to the government, why can't you simple minded liberal freaks understand simple economics?"
on Oct 30, 2007
As the title of my book says," less taxes on the people that employ other people means more actual revenues to the government, why can't you simple minded liberal freaks understand simple economics?"


or the title of my book "There is a sucker born every minute. Just ask Hillary and Col Klink".
on Oct 30, 2007
This thread made me realize that while there is a book called "I'm OK, You're OK," there is none titled, "I'm Right, You're Very, Very Wrong." Off to get my advance before Rush Limbaugh beats me to it! ("See, I Told You So" being the cockiest book title I can think of right now.)
on Nov 09, 2007
A job paying $10 per hour, 40 hours per week does not equal the Federal poverty level. Jobs at $12 per hour are just above the poverty line.


Wow! You have a very high-lying poverty line in the US.

Why not call it something else? US$12/hour has nothing to do with poverty. US$12/hour is wealth unimagineable to all but the richest 20% of the world's population. US$25000/year pays for a lot of things, including a nice flat, good food, mobile phone, Internet access, DVD player etc.. Get married to somebody just as "poor" and you have a US$50000/year household. With that you can afford to buy a house.

It's amazing. I know so many people in Eurpope who would love such an income. And you guys complain???

Perhaps the American "poor" should move to Europe, where fewer people live under the "poverty" line (the line lies lower and many lower incomes lie above it) whereas those willing to trade places could become American "poor". Seems to me that for many Americans, their absolute wealth is less important than their relative wealth. Let's do a population exchange!
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