Cleaning up the middle east

The thugocracies can no longer be tolerated

Published on June 21, 2004 By Draginol In Current Events

There's an old Star Trek episode in which Kirk and crew beam down to a planet that had been influenced by organized crime in Chicago. A whole planet run by organized crime. It made for a kind of silly episode since the concept was so absurd.

And yet much of the population in the middle east lives in an environment in which organized crime runs their daily lives. This outstanding article (posted at USS Clueless) gives a detailed look at the situation in that region.

For all the idiotic claims that US action was driven by the OOOOIILLL, it is easy to forget that the combined GNP of all the middle east, with all their oil wealth is less than half that of California alone. Needless to say, no one ever accused anti-war protesters of being particularly bright. Not too many business majors in the anti-war crowd I suspect.

The middle east is just such a mess. And they have no one to blame but themselves. An apathetic population has allowed gangsterism to take over. For all the talk about Islam as a religion of peace, you don't see too many heads being chopped off elsewhere. The American left and intelligentsia in Europe are always ready to excuse the monstrous behavior on public display in the middle east. It's almost a politically correct form of racism. As if the Islamic world are childlike in their understanding of adult civilized behavior and hence can be excused. You can imagine the world reaction would be if Americans started arbitrarily rounding up Muslims and chopped off their heads. Heck, imagine the damage even a hundred fanatical Americans, well armed and trained could do throughout the Muslim world. Luckily for them, Americans do behave in an adult civilized way.

Those who oppose US actions in the middle east haven't come forward with any constructive alternatives to current US actions. At best, we get impotent whining about Israel -- as if a country of a dozen million can be blamed for the vile behavior occurring in countries with a combined population of around 400 million.

Something has to be done. The corruption of the thugocracies in the middle east is affecting the rest of the world now as 9/11 made painfully clear. I can't say I'm terribly happy with how the US occupation in Iraq has gone but I certainly can't think of any realistic alternatives than aggressive military action in the middle east to reshape it so that order and the rule of law can be firmly established in that part of the world and the hateful extremists can be weeded out.

We tried doing nothing for 8 years and that didn't work out too well. I fear that things are going to get a lot bloodier all around before things get better.

Comments (Page 2)

bakerstreet

on Jun 22, 2004

As an aside, you really need to see the garbage posted here: mikimouse.joeuser.com

Mikimouse is blaming the victims for their own beheadings, calling them "dorks", "Schmucks", calling the Korean hostage "Mr. Pootang". This is the reason people are being beheaded, because there is a large section of society ready, willing, and able to blame the US.

Brad is a nice guy, but "YEAH??? Too Bad. Shoulda Stayed Home Idiot!" and "Another Dead American - Effects Of The War In Iraq" is some of the most offensive stuff I have read at JU, and I would ban his ass on principle for the "pootang" stuff. This is the reason that cleaning up the Middle East is so difficult.

There is always some waste of skin that is willing to blame the victim and politicize their death to look witty and superior. They just said on the news that the Korean has been beheaded. I guess mikimouse will have more to laugh about now. Sick asshole.

P.S. Al Jazeera is stating that the Korean gentlman was beheaded. Fuck mikimouse and all the rest that will turn this into some "statement". The argument itself is terroristic.

messybuu

on Jun 22, 2004

Well, I think that the US should be held to a higher standard than that of the terrorists. After all, we expect more from a priest or the President than we do from Joe Crackhead. However, I do have a problem when people condone the atrocities that the terrorists commit, because "they know no better" or something like that. The only violent acts against innocent people that I'd condone are the acts of non-human animals, but since the terrorists are human, I expect them to act with a bit more civility. If we are to expect less from them than we do from dogs though, then I see nothing wrong with "euthanizing" them.

bakerstreet

on Jun 22, 2004

"If we are to expect less from them than we do from dogs though, then I see nothing wrong with "euthanizing" them."

That got an insightful from me. You have to draw a line and say that when people withdraw themselves from the human race, when they completely reject all the tenets of humanity and can behead someone with a carving knife, the time has come to see them as something other than human.

The average Middle Eastern citizen should be able to think back and quake at what happens to people like this. Their end should be so horrifying that no one would consider the possibility of beheading as a political tool. If they can't summon up the humanity to refuse to do it, they should be made to be afraid to do it.

Madine

on Jun 22, 2004

It's about a whole people having their sovereign state taken away from them and given to a people that they have been opposed to for thousands and thousands of years... no referendum, no vote... just 'these guys were here 40000 years ago, lets give it to them... never mind who is here now..."

What soverign state was this? Palestine was a British possession immediately prior to Israel's creation. Before that it was controlled by the Ottomans.

I honestly don't think that hateful extremists will be "weeded out" like that -

Hateful extremism tends to be shunned and weeded out in free societies. It is certainly not completely stopped, but it is not widely aided either.

bakerstreet

on Jun 22, 2004

Handing Palestine to the Palestinians after WW2 would have been unthinkable. People can see the difficulty in starting a new government in Iraq, but they think it would have been logical to hand the most contested piece of property in the world over to a tiny number of bitterly poor, uneducated people with no means of protecting themselves. And this in an era when larger nations were still slicing up and annexing all the unprotected land they could get their hands on.

The only thing that might have been possible would have been to make the whole area a UN "nuetral zone", like Vatican city or something similar. I doubt if it would have survived a decade anyway.

The Palestinians would have fared no better, though, and the land still wouldn't be theirs.

Sir Peter Maxwell

on Jun 22, 2004

Brad is a nice guy, but "YEAH??? Too Bad. Shoulda Stayed Home Idiot!" and "Another Dead American - Effects Of The War In Iraq" is some of the most offensive stuff I have read at JU, and I would ban his ass on principle for the "pootang" stuff.

I feel that this cannot be overlooked also, this article is offensive to everyone here (unless you are an Islamic terrorist). Having issues with the occupation of Iraq is all part of the debating spirit but there are limits to free speech.

Muggaz

on Jun 22, 2004

Without being aggressive, Muggaz..Could you tell me why this is: "USA is powerful enough to make it's own bed, it can certainly lie in it as well"

Hehe... I am not aggresive!!!

Ok, basically what I mean by that, is all actions commited by the USA are sanctioned by the people - i.e. they elect their representatives to act for them... so they are comfortable with electing representatives who may have pro-war stance... whatever...

Terrorism is often commited by rogue groups *sometimes* sanctioned by the state, but generally, as rogue groups... when the groups act the whole world is affected and they DO have to lie in the bed... but it was made by the terrorists...

The problem of the playing field spring to mind again... Terrorists dont seem to care that the whole population of Afghanistan suffers... so they dont care how they make their bed... the USA should make its bed with delicate care...

BAM!!!

bakerstreet

on Jun 22, 2004

So the issue is "plausible deniability"? I don't think anyone at this point suffers from the illusion that the citizens of the Middle East don't support suicide bombing and other terroristic acts. I was watching TV on 9/11 and saw people cheering in the streets and heard the "man on the street" interviews. We see the polls all the time.

In the end, what kind of bed are we talking about? I think the Middle East has a far, far bleaker future if they continue to support this kind of behavior. At this point I think we have much more to fear if we condone or coddle terrorists and the people who cheerlead for them. I fear world opinion much less than people who have nothing but hatred for the West, and see our very existance as a threat to their ignorant religious ideals.

Muggaz

on Jun 22, 2004

In the end, what kind of bed are we talking about? I think the Middle East has a far, far bleaker future if they continue to support this kind of behavior

Baker, I agree with you man...

However, it's such a paradoxical situation... How do you tell a people that hate you because you are from a Western Culture that all you want to do is help save them from themselves?

I dont agree with interventionalist tactics... but as each street parade occurs, and as the masses chant 'death to America' you have to ask the hard questions... How do you attack the Terrorist infrastructure???

Many times it has been remarked that the war in Iraq is about oil... I wonder how much money the terrorist's would have if no one purchased Middle East oil... how many members of the Saudi Royal family came under class action for having 'involvement' in 9/11, and how many of those very same family members have done business with an American administration?

I am afraid that if the US tries to uncover too many details about the Terrorist infrastructure, it might end up with egg on its face... then again, that is nothing but speculation... if the middle east is to be cleaned up... you have to find the source of the dirt, otherwise it just keeps coming back...

BAM!!!

bakerstreet

on Jun 22, 2004

People in the Middle East seem to think that beheading hostages is a "statement", or a credible method of change. It is that apathy that is the true "source", not the militants themselves. You don't see this in other nations because it isn't an option people consider. Evenif it crossed their minds they *know* what would become of them. The people who beheaded that Korean today did so fearlessly, without a doubt that they'd get away with it.

We have to address the fact that people are being beheaded and the "man on the street" doesn't have that much of a problem with it. Beheading civilians on film can no longer be seen as "empowerment". It needs to be seen as what it is, someone who is too cowardly to be a "martyr" and fight a real war, and the root cause of the misery the average person in the Middle East will suffer.

What was once a "Middle East" problem is now a mainland Asian problem, a Pacific Island problem. When did the mold spread to other parts of the world? During the era that the US and the rest of the West took little interest in what was happening. During the era that people like Yassir Arafat were hailed as statesmen. That era is over, hopefully. I guess we'll see in November, huh?

I saw a quote from Clinton's book today that wen't something like "Arafat couldn't make the jump from revolutionary to statesman". Revolutionary? I never saw him make the jump from terrorist to revolutionary.

Wiping militant islam from the face of the earth would be of great benefit to the Middle East, but I am not so charitable that I would waste a single bullet for them after the behavior I have seen in the last few months. Militant Islam is going to contunue to spread to third-world, troubled nations, allowing them to make more and more footholds like Afghanistan. To prevent that from happening I think it would be very worthwhile to use all means necessary to show citizens of the Middle East that it isn't in their interest to condone acts like we saw today.

bakerstreet

on Jun 22, 2004

P.S. I see what you are saying, I just don't think there is room for self-doubt in this case. When you personally doubt yourself, you do it in seconds or minutes, and then you make up your mind. If our representitive society starts to rethink its policies it will be years of bandying and playing the devil's advocate while they continue to lop people's heads off.

I don't doubt that you may be right, but I think we can risk embarassment and regret if the outcome is a fundamental change in how the mainstream Middle East views terrorism. When it is as hard to fuction as a terrorist in Syria as it is in the US, I think you'll see a brighter, happier, more prosperous Middle East. These people have been victimized and they don't even know it.

Draginol

on Jun 22, 2004

I just wrote an article about dehumanizing the middle east.

The Arab world is effectively dehumanizing themselves. I was at a neighborhood party and the subject came up repeatedly. These are mostly non-political people of considerable means and the increasing consensus is that if they're not human enough to recognize the barbarity of cutting the heads off of people then perhaps the solution is to just exterminate the whole lot of them. Turn troubled cities in Iraq into radioactive waste.

I was on the side of restraint arguing that such an act would lower us to their level. But the fact is, these actions over there are convincing a growing number of Americans that Arabs are an alien, slightly less than human culture in which the normal restraints shouldn't be reserved for any longer.

Such talk makes me fear more for the citizens of the middle east than for Americans. Despite what some of the idiotic left wingers spout out, Bush and the US aren't barbaric. But I can envision scenarios in which barbarism was carried out. After all, the US could wipe out every man woman and child in the middle east pretty easily without any dramatic real world push back (i.e. there's nothing stopping the US from doing this than our own humanity).

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