I by far believe it to be that quality of the games is more of what's dragging down the sales.

I myself have uhm *cough* pirated some games... and in truth I'm damn glad I did also. Because a lot of the games that I pirated just plain sucked, and would have been a total waste of my money had I actually bought them. (of course it is only my opinion that they sucked... ) Though the games that I did download and enjoyed.. I would actually go out and buy, because if you buy the game and they come out with some update for it, it's a LOT easier to get that update when using a legit version and also because my buying that game supports the company that makes it.

Now on the fact that a lot of games don't come out 100% workably out of the box is a long and complicated problem. Coding something like that isn't easy at all. I used to be in college for Computer Sciences. I was working on making just a plain C program that dealth with graphics card interfacing and just getting the computer to pop out the details of the card and to do a quick graphics test. The first time I programmed it up it worked like a jiffy on the comp I was using.. everything worked just fine. But I take the same program to another computer that has a different graphics card and it failed and blue screened the comp.

Writing and programming games and other programs will never be a 100% or probably even a 90% out of the box working capacity thing. There is just SOOOOOO many variations of computer set ups that the end user can have. And no matter how many of those variances you take into effect, you can't always program for them all.

I think the biggest issue in why the PC games sales are in decline is that there are only so many FPS and RTS games a person can play before they've seen it all. And since that seems to be about all anyone produces in retail any more for solo players, of course people are going to move on. I used to buy 15-20 games a year for the PC from retail. Now I buy 2 or 3, because I've either seen it before, or they just look so complicated, that I know I won't have the time to put the effort into them. Instead, I'm spending my money on Indie titles - games like Flatspace, Crimsonland, DemonStar, and a host of others. I want games that are simple to play, can be played for fun in less than a half hour, don't require the CD to be in the drive, and don't require 20 minutes (exaggeration ) to load everything. I am one of the reasons the retail PC industry is shrinking - I don't want most of their products anymore. Too big, too complicated, too realistic, too much hassle.

I've been an avid gamer since I was 5 years old. I'm not a big fan of consoles as I consider them wasted hardware when my computer is faster and more flexible. However in the past year or so the only titles that have grabbed me have been bad ports from consoles (gta3, kotor, etc.) I'm now an xbox owner. with a bit of modification I find I can use it to play various media on my tv allowing me to get rid of my old media pc. The gaming industry has done nothing with the computer lately to make me want to give them my money. Even downloading games has become a waste of time as most of them are not worth playing once I get them. If the industry makes a quality game they'll get a quality response.

I, as well, have been involved deeply into videogames since my early ages, thus lately PC gaming has been decaying fastly... One of the many reazons seem to be game quality as it has been arguemented previously, but i dont mean quality as in " quality ", graphics are excelent as well as realism ... but is that what a gamer ultimately seeks ??? i remember back in the "classic console" days, games used to be just that .... GAMES .... an experience that anyone could appreciate, even parents .... like playing good ol' "duck hunt" with mom ... even watching dad spend hours playing "contra" .... or "mario bro's" with friends and relatives. As i try to emphasise here, those games had one goal set ... "addictiveness" ... as if i wanted realism, a movie or some cartoon series would be more appropriate to deliver such things. Back then i wouldnt mind spending whatever money i aquired on games .... even for x-mas all came down to games .... but as the PC era developed furtherly, games apparently seemed more promising ... my !! was i wrong assuming that. Nowadays .... games are more than just a challenge .... for example ... the average FPS requires at least 10 minutes of setup, that is of course, if you have a basic understanding of games, and "some" PC knowledge. This, for me seems to be the first reazon why game piracy has become more popular, as people preffer to download something and try it knowing that if they game is not pleasing, at least they spent no money on it. Consoles in the other hand have the option of renting the title so if is not good just take it back. Secondly, a not less important issue seems to be "compatibility" and "requirements" ... back then .... classic games were focused on quality represented by being more distributable than playable .... as for ANYBODY with a computer could play them ... disregarding system configuration, or specifications, graphics never seemed to be an attraction for the general public, take for example "metal slug", graphics are great but what made it popular was the addictiveness, the actual "game play" not the details put into "a soldier getting killed and taking about 6-10 seconds to finally die" , but todays games require more than the average computer, not to mention "patches" and many addons leaving behind people who for a reazon or another cant yet afford and internet connection, or even HIGH-END components, nor posses certain PC abilities. And lastly, as many have said it, "originality", as for classic games where so much inovative back then, as in present day, games are nothing but "remakes" or "updates" of older ones. In simpler words take this for an example, when buying a pizza ... i want it done ... ready to eat and still hot, i dont want to be calling the pizza place every 5 minutes asking them how to prepare it, i dont care how the ingredients are arranged as long as the flavor keeps me interested on buying the same one next time

Let's see, when I first started gaming... That was with the early Mac, and around the time when ATARI stopped their lame consoles and went over to real computers. (I didn't like the console ATARIs) Now, if these people are trying to say that piracy is worse now than it was then.. They've completely lost it. I didn't know a single ATARI user who didn't have a few BBSes to dial up to and grab the latest Pompey's Pirates (my favourite example) disks. Going from there I learnt the value of the Warez scene, I could get a game, try it out, and buy it in the rare event that it was a good addicting game. You did it then, because most game developers weren't rolling in the money, and your few dollars would actually help them out. That was a bit of a rant, I really had no point.
I can't claim to buy games any more... Not for the sake of being a rebel badass and not buying games, when I can get them for free from BitTorrent/DirectConnect.. The problem in my eyes, is that the quality of games have just been dropping rapidly since the golden age of gaming.. the AMIGA/ATARI times. Sure, I could fire up one of the brand new FPS games and run around killing people in the most realistic way ever imagined on a computer... But honestly, if I wanted something realistic, I'd go outside. I'm all for good graphics, but I think they've really lost the genuine addictive gameplay that they once had. That's just my opinion ofcourse because I know there are thousands upon thousands of people who can play such a meaningless game as Counter Strike. Meanwhile, I could play a game like Magic Pockets for hours (256 (!) color game where you're a little kid with a funny head who throws tornados made of beads from his pockets). Because it was original. It was one of the more interesting games I've ever seen, and I can still remember the first time I played it.. Nedless to say, I can't remember the first time I played Counter Strike. (I never liked it, but I have played it)

Once again, I'm ranting... What my point is (if I have one), is that I think Piracy is overplayed. It's just like the music industry, lots of music gets shared over the internet.. But sales have been increasing overall in the music industry. I download tons of music every day, but I would'nt have half of my CD collection if it wasn't for pirating music by interesting bands... It's way easier to find them that way then trying to keep up interest inbetween commercials on ZTV/MTV/VH1.

My thoughts,
by Solidarity.

Well I tend to agree with most of what was said above a lot of games now days are just to damm complicated to be able to play over this past year I have gotten 5 games 4 pirated that a mate gave me 1 I brought just the other day (after downloading the demo first) and out of those 5 games the pirated ones I have installed but don't play them to complicated you can't just load the game up and play even my kid won't play them to much hassle to get into the game and play it, so yes they may be pirated but they are not being used. Any pirated games I do have that I do play I always go out and buy the actual game eventually

For me to buy more games I would like to see game devolopers do the following

1. Have a extra CD/DVD supplied with the game to act as a play disk so I don't have to use and end up damaging the install CD/DVD (I allways copy my CD's and use the copys to play if I can) or better yet not need a CD/DVD in the drive.

2. Make the game more playable straight out of the box without having to spend hours just trying to learn to play it (i.e learning what EVERY key on the keyboard does a game should not have to use every key on the keyboard) I myself don't bother with games that require more then a joystick/gamepad/mouse, or a few keys on the keyboard.

3. Update the game when a new operating system comes out so it can be played on it, this is one of the biggest drawbacks to me I have over a couple of hundred games but only about 30 work on Windows XP and I have tryed everything to get them to work games should not last for only a couple of years, and make the updates that they do do for the games easier to find and get.

4. Make demo's of the games more available not everyone wants to download a 400+ meg demo when the game itself is only a couple hundred meg more I know I would send away for a demo CD/DVD of a companys latest and greatest games if it only cost me posting and media cost, cause lets face it D/l a demo of the game at 400meg + or download the full game at what may only be a few hundred meg more I'll go for the full game first everytime like a lot of other people would.

5. Make the games playable on not just the latest and greatest computer systems not everyone can afford to buy a new PC every year and when they do manage to get to be able to buy a new one they still cant afford the very best they have to cut corners when I brought my current system 6 months ago it cost me $2500AU and it still wasn't up to speck to play the some of the games on the market at the time at a decent level.

The above is just my 2 cents worth...

Oh ho ho... You see that's so interesting... but of course it's so easy to mod an x-box and download games

A friend of mine modded his, no soddering required. Now he downloads tons of games every week.

Since X-box is so compatible with windows, he networked it to his PC, microsoft made the thing dangit.

And thus the endless supply of games, sometimes he even gets them a day or so early. Free demo for me.

So.... my question. Xbox is easy to mod and easy to network, anyone who can pirate games over a wireless connection could do it. (req. that they set the connection up, proof of abilty so to say)

Why hasn't their been an equal drop in x-box sells then... huh?

Because x-box has been putting out games that non-geeks buy... sports games... fighting games...
They don't sell adventure and rpg as much as pc... so pirates aren't as interested to an extent...

That and the fact that not all people pirate. Gaming has spread to the adult generation, which means more gamers are unfamiliar with cracking and hacking, much less pirating.

X-box has good games... pc hasn't put out as much... just take a look at walmart.... most x-box games are within the century... seriously....
over a forth of the computer games are last millinium... They're still selling half-life and diablo.... It's getting harder to find recent PC games, much less good ones...

Console games are easier to find and buy... PC just doesn't put out... and thus the decline in sells

This is a great topic to be discussing.

First and foremost, the assertation that because downloading games is easy then piracy must be a problem. Hmmmm... That is a pretty bold statement to make regarding game sales and distriubtion.

This is really just a 'The Sky Must Be Falling' kind of statement. It is important to look at the industry trend to make a reasoned decision. The American economy has been in the crapper for the last couple of years, and the major impact of that is there is less money for the consumers to spend on games. The last game that I bought was Homeworld2 (Before my TGN subscript.) I waited almost 18months from the release date and picked it up for about $25 bucks. This is half of what it cost when released retail.

You see, when you have to decide to buy the new game, or pay the electric bill, the bill should win every time. Less money == less demand for products at premium prices.

A year ago I bought an X-Box. This was a major investment for me, about $200 bucks (Halo, Crimson Skies, included). I enjoyed both of those games a great deal, you know what I have spend on games since then --- ZIP! I traded in my console games and got the credit to get ones that I enjoy playing. You cant do that with a PC game.

MMORPGS take the problem of cost to a whole new level
1) Purchase Game $35 - 50 bucks - One Time Cost! $40
2) Monthly Account - 8 - 15 bucks - Per Month $120
3) Internet Accoutn $20 - 50 (Dial-up / Broadband) $300
a Single Game costs around $460 or more a year to play.
That is a huge amount of money, not even including the time.

I think the industry needs to quit worrying about 'piracy'. This is a (Forgive Me) Phantom Menace - a way pass the buck when the investors want to know why a game is not selling. ---- Well the key is quality!

A game should be
1) Easy to Install (CD or Download)
2) Not require a CD in the drive
3) Work right out of the box
4) Be playable in 20 minute chucks, focusing on the fun, not the repetative.
5) Make the stories great

Just my 2 cents, i realize this is a little discombobulated, but I was interrupted several times.

E

Sorry, people in reality I am the entire reason the computer gaming industry has taken a downward turn.

I had a ritual, every friday when i got paid, I'd go to the local Hastings and buy a brand new game.

Now, I have gotten a PS2 and quite a few games for it. Excluding my current Drengin.Net subscription, I have only bought 2 games this year. the first since I love the first 2 games in the series, (could say the same for MOO3 but that isn't this years game), the second I just loved the concept. They are the biggest flops, and pieces of trash, I have ever played: Lords of the Realm III, and Europa 1400.

I've been pondering over HomeWorld 2, but I don't want to spend $20 if it's a piece of junk too.

I've been gaming longer than my youngest brother who's now in college, has existed on this earth. If only I could run X-Com on my P4. I'm actually collecting antiquated stuff (for pc's anyway) so I can have a high end 486, or low end 586, so i can play some of the best games made on pc.

Excluding MMORPGS, this is where pc gamer sales are going.

*Currently devoting my time to MOO & Drengin

I guess no one saw a complete computer line go belly up over pirating huh? I have been playing games since 1978 on the Atari 2600. After that I found out that they made a computer line in 1979. I bought the Atari 400 with 16K of memory that I upgraded to 32K. It had a flat membrane keyboard with a cassette storage.

In 1981 I started up the Atari users group BBS of Syracuse New York. I found out quickly that games were being pirated and I could get them free. I was surprised and delighted at the same time. This is how it all began and it went on for 8 years online. The users group was about 350 people and all the people in charge including myself were all meeting and pirating games weekly. We had Commodore, Amiga and Apple games at my BBS from around the world. I had about 55,836 members most of which were the best cracking crews from around the world. Lightening struck my Atari computer system that ran my BBS.

I did not realize what I had helped happen until it was to late. The Atari computer line and most all of the others (excluding Apple of course) went out of business mainly due to the glut of video games, but mostly because of the massive amount of pirating that went on. Developers avoided these computers as whenever a game was made 1-3 days later it was cracked.

Today this still occurs but does not impact the industry as it once did due to the shear number of computers around the world most all based on the Intel architecture. (sp) I stopped copying games back when the Atari line died off. Now I buy all of my games and encourage those I know to do the same. I am almost 50 years old and dang proud of it! I run my own website now enjoy it a lot.

http://www.neotechgaming.com

Piracy, these days, is big(ger) then ever. With broadband internet access and people in general being more tech savvy, it's not hard to see why piracy is growing. Not just in the area of PC games, of course, but also music, movies and even console games. But it would be lax simply to blame the poor showing/earnings of PC game makers on internet piracy.

Quality is to blame as well, despite what the game companies would have you believe. We can all recount experiences with games like MOO3 or Starfleet Command 3 (awesome game, yet horribly poor follow up by Activision with fixes/patches and all over a disagreement with Paramount.) Games these days are hyped up to be something which, in the end, they cannot be anymore. The bottom of the barrel has been hit and game makers these days are simply making the same games again and again.

There needs to be more foward thinking in game ideas and design. More solid testing to ensure the quality of the product and to ensure the contentment of the player.

Maybe it's simply a matter of people don't want to spend a hard earned $50+ for a game which given the recent showings by game companies these days, will probably contain more bugs then one could count. Instead of paying $50 for a semi-good, yet probably short and troublesome bit of entertainment, people would rather just pirate games? Who wants to spend money now on a game they may require 3-5 patches to simply work right?

PC Game in my option are a pain because they require a registration key.And the XBox,PS2,Game Cube do not need any code. I would buy more PC Games if I did not have to put in codes. The one site to watch out for is TryMedia you might get 2 to 5 Licenses and if you run out of you codes you have to contact them. and I told them right out that what they are doing makes them SpyWare wanting to knopw a computer ISP address.

I am right there with Desert Fox. I had an Atari 800XL, and bought a lot of software for it. But then I ran into some people who had pirated games, and then there was a program called Chipmunk that would let you crack and copy games. A friend of mine had a Commodore 64, and we ran into some people at college who had hundreds, if not thousands of cracked games. Needless to say my friend didn't need to buy games for a long time.

I actively buy games that I like. I will download demos or use demo disks to weed out junk I don't want, or to get enough of a taste of a game to satisfy my curiousity. I love gaming on my PC, and hope it does not go away. I love games on my consoles too, but they are totally different games. I hope people will do the right thing and support games they like. I would also wish games would be released with better quality control, and at better prices. To pay $40-50 for a game, you expect it to work out of the box.

Steve

Stevarian325 I do not meet many Atari owners let alone someone that agrees with my views. I really miss the Atari ST series I loved that computer. We used a hardware device called the Archiver that was installed into the hard drives.

Stop in at my site sometime be a pleasure to have another former Atari owner there. It is a sci-fi themed website supportingGalciv and a few other games. We have a political discussion forum covering world and US politics.. A different kind of experience without a doubt.

NeoTech Gaming Network Link

The biggest problem I see with computer games these days is that alot of them are failing to truley exploit the strengths of the platform. The main strengths in the PC are versatile controls, better graphics capabilities (on average), larger storage, integration with the internet, and a high degree of modability (both in terms of hardware and software). Game developers seem to be putting out more and more console-y games on the PC, which is basically asking for PC sales to go down. Platformers and arcade racing games are perfect for the console. F/TPS games are also pretty strong on consoles, though mouse-aim can't be beat on any consumer platform to date.

PC games should be focused on having massive worlds, better AI, more after-release content, and more interaction with the world. With a console, you have about a dozen buttons and 1 or 2 directional controls. With a PC, you have at least 30 buttons and a very versatile directional control. Though some people complain about overly complex controls, the fact is that more controls is a strength. Now, don't confuse obtuse controls with more controls. Having an entire game run exclusively on a list of 400 archaic key commands is not a strong interface. However, an intuitively designed control scheme with lots of options is good.

One problem is standardization. If we leave the realm of games for a moment, just concider the majority of Windows software. If you hit Ctrl+X, you cut whatever is selected 90% of the time. CTRL+C copies, +V pastes, +A selects all, etc. There are dozens and dozens of key commands that are standard across 90% of Windows software, so people rarely complain about hard controls, even though there are dozens. Take MS word for example. Word has 100s of commands, most if not all available from key commands, yet people rarely complain about poor cotrols in Word because they are standardized and common. Of course, most Windows programs also allow access to everything with a mouse, and that too is a strength. I challenge anyone to tell me that they actually prefer using menus in console games over interfaces on the PC.

To some extent, games do standardize controls, but not enough. In shooters, the number keys generally select weapons, WASD controls movement, etc. In strategy games, 1-0 select unit groups, the arrow keys pan the camera, and double clicking on one unit selects all similar units on the screen at the time. However, other controls change from game to game. If you could sit down at an RTS game and know 99% of the controls because you've played an RTS before, that would drastically reduce some issues people have with games on the PC.

People complain about high system requirements for games and poor backwards and forwards compatability, but really, that's not a valid complaint. Untill recently, most consoles haven't been backwards compatable, and as far as I know, none are forwards compatable. Yes, if you don't have the nicest newest machine, you can't play Doom 3 with all the settings turned up, but guess what, on a console, you are FORCED to play with graphics that are permenantly frozen at a level roughly equal to that of when the console was released. It is kind of annoying that each new OS kills a bunch of games, but guess what, I'd much rather be running on a 32-bit system with Win XP then be sitting at a command line on an 8-bit machine so I could still play games from the 80s. At least on a computer, if you try hard enough, you can figure out a way to make it work if it is at all reasonable to expect it.

The computer holds the biggest lead in storage. No matter how you cut it, you just can't fit as much game onto a console cartidge or CD/DVD as you can onto a computer harddrive. This means that PC games should focus on having alot of content, such as lots of levels and items etc. This also ties in with the modability issue in that games should have alot more after-sale content added in. Unfortunately, with the trend towards a console-centric market, expansion packs and large free add-ons are being increasingly passed over in favor of half-assed sequels, since consoles can't do expansion packs at all.

Finally, yes the fall in PC sales is caused in part by piracy. A decline in quality and ease of use are also causes. So is the poor economy. But the biggest reason I see that the PC game market is falling is because developers are gravitating towards making console games and porting them, which means that fewer and fewer games actually fully exploit the strengths of the PC, and thus people end up buying them for the console because it is easier to use. The industry needs to refocus on making PC games for the PC, not platform-neutral games or games that are primarily console.