Latest on the battle of the Bush memos

CBS duped?

Published on September 11, 2004 By Draginol In Politics

At this points, anyone even remotely interested in this story who is on-line has seen the compelling evidence that the memos CBS used to prove that Bush was getting special treatment in the National Guard were in fact forged.

Here's an animated GIF from LGF that shows the CBS received memo vs. a 2004 Windows XP MS Word document with all the default settings. The evidence is pretty conclusive. You can't even get this close using a different word processor let alone using a type writer (regardless of what imagined abilities of some magical type writer from 1973, it still wouldn't look this exact).

The question is, how long will CBS stick to its guns when it's obvious the documents are a hoax?

Comments (Page 1)

Draginol

on Sep 11, 2004

BTW, for those people who are still grasping at straws on CBS's behalf consider this:

http://shapeofdays.typepad.com/the_shape_of_days/2004/09/the_ibm_selectr.html

Someone with an IBM Selectric composer, a machine thatwould cost $20,000 in today's dollars, went ahead and tried to recreate the document. Answer: can't.

The issue isnt whether (for enough money) there existed typewriters that could do some of the same features as the documents CBS used. The issue is that none of them could create this document as we have it.

On the other hand, MS Word, with its default settings, no changes, produces an identical document. Check and mate.

Daiwa

on Sep 11, 2004

Rather's run out of his medication.

Here is Rather quoted in today's paper:

"This story is true. The questions we raised about then-Lieutenant Bush's National Guard service are serious and legitimate," he said. "Until and unless someone shows me definitive proof that they are not, I don't see any reason to carry on a conversation with the professional rumor mill."

The guy's turned journalistic integrity completely on its head. He's saying he will support the lie until someone else proves the lie isn't true. He's lost his freakin' mind, what was left of it.

Cheers,
Daiwa

BigFire

on Sep 11, 2004

From Citizen Kane:

Emily: Charles, the people will think...
Charles: ...what I tell them to think.

This is Dan Rather's Charles Foster Kane moment. How dare these little people question his journalistic integrity. Don't you know who I am?

Shovelheat

on Sep 11, 2004

Man, I feel drunk watchin' that memo pulsate ...

KoopaTroopa211

on Sep 11, 2004

There's already a thread for this. It's right below this one.

Dionicman

on Sep 12, 2004

Just because Word can produce a document that looks like the one in question, is not enough to prove it's a fake. Yes, it raises question as to the authenticity, but it is not creating solid, factual proof that the document is a hoax; it only proves that Word was able to make a similar looking document. We already know that just about any formal document pertaing to George W. Bush has either been "lost", sealed by court order, or is otherwise unavailable. That alone is the most questionable and suspicious detail pertaining the man! Those so quick to stick up for him, or defend him are just doing so because they know most of the bad things said about him are true. Somehow, he seems to mystically captivate people in this country, with some sort of fakeass-Southern-accented-downhomestyled-for the people charm, and I just do not get it! Doesn't anyone remember how Bush and the Rep. Party stole the friggin' election that put him in office, in the first place? That whole stunt with the Florida polls? Katherine Harris, and brother Jeb's list of people who's right to vote suddenly was taken away, because they had criminal pasts supposedly. A lot of those names that were revoked actually were just names that were similiar to the listed names, yet they were yanked anyway. How do you overlook the fact that he is a liar, and merely a puppet at a podium? This country is crazy! I mean, people go to such lengths to defend him, as if he were their best friend or father or something... like they take it personally or something, and it's just weird! What has he done for you, I mean really done for you, to earn such devotion and loyality? Why is it suddenly "ok" to not only tolerate lying and deception, but to accept it from the President of the United States of America? Well, when you really think about it, I guess it comes with the territory (no pun intended), since this country was founded on lying, deception, bio-terrorism, and the likes, and then through a blurred history, and distorted media the truth gets sugar coated like a fucking Krispy Kreme doughnut coming off the conveyor belt

messybuu

on Sep 12, 2004

Just because Word can produce a document that looks like the one in question, is not enough to prove it's a fake.

When it's the only thing that can reproduce it exactly, then yes, it is enough proof that it's a fake.

Marvin Cooley

on Sep 12, 2004

I LOVE WHATS HAPPENING TO RATHER AND CBS!!! I have seen them destroy fine people who couldn't afford to fight back.

bakerstreet

on Sep 12, 2004

KENNETH, WHAT'S THE FREQUENCY???

kingbee

on Sep 12, 2004

KENNETH, WHAT'S THE FREQUENCY???

who woulda guessed that nice electronic harrassment guy had it in for dan?

JustDroppingBy

on Sep 12, 2004

As linked to from a blurb about the Political Machine, only to find that the dev in question is a pretty strident right-wing bigot. IMO, of course. Pretty ironic. In any case, to answer your petty whinings about untruths, here is an informed opinion piece from a considerably more mainstream publication than the various zealot blogs you are quoting.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1644869,00.asp

drmiler

on Sep 12, 2004

We already know that just about any formal document pertaing to George W. Bush has either been "lost", sealed by court order, or is otherwise unavailable. That alone is the most questionable and suspicious detail pertaining the man! Those so quick to stick up for him, or defend him are just doing so because they know most of the bad things said about him are true.

The same things can be said about John Kerry. He hasn't released all his records either! That also is suspicious. I'm sorry it must be because he knows "the bad things said about him are true"!

CrispE

on Sep 12, 2004

Draginol:

I have been looking at all the reports and have watched the networks on this issue and here is the sense I am making of it:

1) The evidence is inconclusive. It is not conclusive that YOU can duplicate the document with Microsoft Word. This only says the technology to forge is available, but is not a smoking gun.

2) Journalists on the right (like Kate O'Beirne and Robert Novack on Capital Gang, CNN, 9/11/04) are not calling them forgeries. These are people with strong connections to the White House and know that the White House is not denying the memos.

3) The Republican Party is using "unofficial channels" such as those like yourself to paint a picture because they DON'T want to answer for Bush's military record or any official reports of Bush's behavior themselves. As long as they remain silent, then they are exonerated from any responsibility.

4) Different papers (Washington Post, Boston Globe, for example) are stating different conclusions about the documents. That there is a DIVISION of opinion is important because everyone is using different experts.

5) If they are FORGERIES, then the White House should say that they don't believe there is credible evidence that Killian ordered Bush to take his physical in May AND that Bush was never aware of such sentiment from his commanding officer.

6) If they are AUTHENTIC, CBS should present other documents done on the "same typewriter" that show the same signature so that all documents can be verified.

drmiler

on Sep 12, 2004

Reply #13 By: CrispE - 9/12/2004 9:44:29 AM
Draginol:

I have been looking at all the reports and have watched the networks on this issue and here is the sense I am making of it:

1) The evidence is inconclusive. It is not conclusive that YOU can duplicate the document with Microsoft Word. This only says the technology to forge is available, but is not a smoking gun.

2) Journalists on the right (like Kate O'Beirne and Robert Novack on Capital Gang, CNN, 9/11/04) are not calling them forgeries. These are people with strong connections to the White House and know that the White House is not denying the memos.

3) The Republican Party is using "unofficial channels" such as those like yourself to paint a picture because they DON'T want to answer for Bush's military record or any official reports of Bush's behavior themselves. As long as they remain silent, then they are exonerated from any responsibility.

4) Different papers (Washington Post, Boston Globe, for example) are stating different conclusions about the documents. That there is a DIVISION of opinion is important because everyone is using different experts.

5) If they are FORGERIES, then the White House should say that they don't believe there is credible evidence that Killian ordered Bush to take his physical in May AND that Bush was never aware of such sentiment from his commanding officer.

6) If they are AUTHENTIC, CBS should present other documents done on the "same typewriter" that show the same signature so that all documents can be verified.

Pardon me CrispE, but this "is" America. And as such the "burden" of "proof" lies with the accuser NOT the accused.

Lee1776

on Sep 12, 2004

Just Dropping By

Whining? Did you even read the link you gave?

One: the guy does not talk about the other half dozen other things that the the select can not do.

Two: Quote: "(As the note explains, the large-type headlines in the manual were not typed on a Selectric Composer, but everything else was typed on that machine)." So he saying that the letter head was typed on a diffrent form. Ok, that means it would be a standard form letter head right? I worked with stardard form letterheads before computer were used and I never had one so shotely build one like that. They would of had the unit insignia on the right and Air Force crest on the left. Then if this memo was typed for one's own records why would he bother in the first place.

Three: Quote: "If you go to the page numbered 100 in the scanned IBM manual, you can find a list of type elements in different sizes, including ones with capitals sized 5 and 6 points. Superscripts may not have been quite as difficult to type on a Composing Selectric as many people say they were." In simple words: You need to change the font sizes to get the right size that is used in the memo.

So a man (the Commander) that does not know very much about typewriters would change the font size on a michine (that you would have had to read to page 100 to find out that it was possible) just because it looks a little diffrent?.

Of course this is on a $20,000 dollar machine that looks like it came out of a Starteck epasode (at the time).

This guy is grabing at straws and I don't think this atrical will even make it to print.

My Two Cents

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