Bush and debating

Painful to watch

Published on October 2, 2004 By Draginol In Politics

For me, watching Bush debate is a lot like watching my son play baseball. While I may root for him to do well, I feel helpless in being able to make him do well.

Like when my son is batting, I try to will it that he'll hit the ball. Similarly, while observing Bush, I try to will it that he'll nail a point.

So when Kerry says lamely, "I consider nuclear proliferation to greatest threat to our nation." I'm using all my mental energy to try to get Bush to say something like "Well Senator, I consider going after the blood thirsty terrorists who are trying to murder Americans to be our top priority."

Bush isn't as quick on his feet as Kerry. Kerry, a former prosecutor, is in his own in having to put together a compelling argument on the fly. Bush defeated Gore in the 2000 debates because Gore came across as a haughty lecturerer. Kerry won't make that mistake.

One might argue that Bush lost the debate on style -- which is what really matters but won it in terms of substance. Bush's arguments are stronger IMO but he isn't able to put those arguments forward in a compelling way.

Kerry's Iraq position is incoherent. Idealogues on the left may be content to parrot the line "Kerry voted for the president to have authorization to use force so that he would have more leverage to get the UN to put those inspectors back." But any clear thinking American is not going to fall for that. The US did not have 200,000 troops sitting in Kuwait as mere bargaining chips. Kerry knew, as did every other senator know, that barring a miracle (i.e. complete capitulation by Saddam) that US troops would be invading Iraq before the hot weather returned (by March 2003 in other words). To argue anything else is simply being naive at best or untruthful at worst.

But that's where being a good public speaker comes into play. Kerry is able to put forth his disengenous position because Bush isn't able to put forward a simple and effective counterargument.

And those of us on the side lines can only look on helplessly. Just like I do when I watch my kid playing baseball.

Comments (Page 3)

Lee1776

on Oct 03, 2004

then why isn't he playing up his whole administration more as, "elect me and you'll be getting this whole team." If the policies themselves have some cachet, then shouldn't the people responsible for these choices add to his "electability"?

Bush has allot of good talented and experienced people working for him. Which is a good sign of a good President. President Washington surrounded himself by what I think was the best ever. But sometime these people don't like to play together. You may not see it so much from where you are, but here the media loves to air anything that looks like there is a disagreement in the President cabinet.

That's My Two Cents

Deference

on Oct 03, 2004

Good question, sunwukong, it seems the debates really do favor solely focusing on the candidates themselves. Perhaps the candidates feel this way as well and play along. Bush has an experienced and skilled cabinet, it makes me wonder how they could act almost impulsively in the face of their combined years of experience. Exit strategy? We'll figure that out later...maybe they aren't aiming for an exit. Who knows?

I don't think most Bush supporters are voting Bush because they favor or even approve of the majority of his policies. It seems that when I talk to the average Bush supporter on the street, they say the reason they'll vote for him is because 1) He'll keep us safe from the terrorists! 2) He's prolife 3) He's pro-gun. It's as if all the other issues in the U.S. and the world at large are moot. I enjoy frequenting these forums partly because the majority of the Bush supporters here usually have more to say.

COL Gene

on Oct 03, 2004

The most recent polls show over 80% of thoes polled want changes should Bush win a second term. About 60% want MAJOR changes. Now what do any of think the chances are of Bush making any changes much less major changes if he is re-elected? That is not how. "stay the Course" Bush is built. Therefore if he is re-elected there will most likely be even more disatisfaction in America. It is time for a change of the resident at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. We need policies that are more centrest and that will never happen if Bush remains President.

Daiwa

on Oct 03, 2004

The ONLY REASON terrorists are killing Americans and the Iraqie people today is because George W. Bush invaded IRAQ! There was No terrorist operation in Iraq before we started the WAR.

COL, you've lost your mind. Tell that to the families of the thousands of victims whose bodies were found in the mass graves discovered since the invasion. Tell that to the Kurds. The difference is that the terrorists were wearing Iraqi government uniforms and acting on Saddam's orders, or those of his whack-job sons; now they are freelancers afraid they will lose out in the power struggle, supported by opportunists, many of them non-Iraqi jihadists. And despite your claim, bin Laden was offered sanctuary by Saddam (9/11 Commission Report) - he just decided to go elsewhere.

The notion that there would be no terrorist threat to America if we had just left Iraq alone is idiotic.

Cheers,
Daiwa

Deference

on Oct 03, 2004

Tell that to the families of the thousands of victims whose bodies were found in the mass graves discovered since the invasion.

The Iraqi's have had all the fun, now it's our turn, let's get that American body count up! Makes sense, right?

Politically Active

on Oct 03, 2004

If Bush isn't good at thinking on his feet, maybe he shouldn't be president of the United States. This is especially true when he takes random action (like the invasion of Iraq) without adequate planning.

sandy2

on Oct 03, 2004

Or what to do in response to an attack, such as September 11th. A president should be able to say, a plane crashed?! Terror? Alright order all planes down now and shoot any plane that is about to hit the world trade center, the white house, the pentagon, the capital, or any other important government buildings in washington. Order all federal offices on lockdown, federalize the maryland and virgina national gaurds and (insert what ever else is done during a possible attack here). INSTEAD of sitting in the classroom like a dunce.

COL Gene

on Oct 03, 2004

Reply to Daiwa

Yes, Saddam was evil. There are other Dictators that today are allowing a millions people to be in danger. Millions have died in Africa. There is only one reason a President should place our military in danger and that is to protect America and our freedom. Although Saddam was evil, he was NOT a threat to our freedom. We have people in this world who are a danger to our freedom and we have diverted our limited resources away from fighting them to get rid of Saddam. In so doing we have created more not less enemies for us. We are not the worlds policemen and we are not the enforcement agent for the United Nations Security Council. It was the Iraq people and the moderate moslem countries that should have removed Saddam not the United States!

bakerstreet

on Oct 03, 2004

"The Iraqi's have had all the fun, now it's our turn, let's get that American body count up! Makes sense, right?"

humorous...

"INSTEAD of sitting in the classroom like a dunce."

even more humorous

What really, really annoys me, is that I am not hatefully anti-Dem in real life. I come here, though, and see how you guys feed on misinformation, misdirection, outright lies, and bitterness... THEN I am hatefully anti-Dem. As has been said, anti-Bush people are their own worst enemy.

Grim Xiozan

on Oct 03, 2004

The saying of e e cummings comes to mind, "Consistancy is the hobglobben of little minds". Works for me to describe the , "stay the Course" mind of George W.

Was he the guy who also said 'politics is a seat of which every arse has sat except that of a man.'?

- GX

Deference

on Oct 03, 2004

Instead of being, well, yourselves, it seems like you would cut Brad some slack, acknowledge that he is being damn fair about the debates, and have a reasonable discussion. Instead, you just do what you always do, start a Liberal feeding frenzy, take advantage of any consideration, and take the blog as far off topic as possible.

Actually, the line you quoted me as saying was in reference to Daiwa's post #34.

You should also check my last line in post #32, that also includes you, don't stereotype just because somebody isn't on the same side of the fence. I understand your frustration, but keep in mind, you often get what you give.

bakerstreet

on Oct 03, 2004

Nothing I could do could further stereotype you guys than what you do yourself...

annegirl

on Oct 03, 2004

It was the Iraq people and the moderate moslem countries that should have removed Saddam not the United States!

COL Gene

How exactly were the Iraqi people to rise up against Saddam? He was a dictator who killed people just because of their ethnic background or their religion. Imagine what he would have done if they rose up against him! They had NO freedom.

bakerstreet

on Oct 04, 2004

"How exactly were the Iraqi people to rise up against Saddam?"

They did rise up agasint him. He killed 100,000 shiites in the south during one episode. the hundreds of thousands of others were killed over the years as well.

None of his neighbors could remove him. No one else wanted to because he was worth billions to them. COL Gene knows this. It's election year, though.

Bahu Virupaksha

on Oct 04, 2004

I have also brought out some of the points in my Florida Debate and After, ablog posted on this web. I felt that Bush made a very poor show in the debate and it was Kerry who came across looking very presidential.. He had complete mastery over the nitty gritty of policy and all Bush II could do was squirm and grimace like a cagewd animal.

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