Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.

With Dell taking the Windows experience to the next level with the introduction of the Dell Dock, I've seen a lot of online buzz about it.  Most agree that the Dell Dock is really good but intermixed are a lot of Mac fans who use terms like "Mac rip off" or how it's a copy of the Mac dock.

imageMac zealots have a long and glorious history of retroactively claiming pre-existing concepts as being invented by Apple.  For example, the modern "widget" (end user created applets that use Javascript) was not invented by Apple.  They also didn't first appear in Konfabulator either. They appeared in Stardock DesktopX years earlier. Apple zealots usually counter by arguing that things like desktop accessories from 1981 "invented" the concept (as if the average user was going to whip out small assembly language programs).

imageI think most rational people agree that the modern widget is a mini application that can be created by end users that are tied together with a high level scripting language (i.e. Yahoo Widgets, Dashboard, Sidebar Gadgets, DesktopX).  And DesktopX borrowed the concept from IBM's worksplace shell which in turn was inspired by prior art as well.

But the controversy over widgets is nothing compared to the claim that Apple somehow invented the concept of docks.  Even allowing for the history of NeXT with its side dock, the dock concept is ancient.

 Stardock, for example, has been doing "docks" since 1994.  Object Desktop for OS/2 included things like Tab LaunchPad and Control Center. You don't see Stardock fans complaining that every sidebar is a "rip off" of Control Center. And Control Center certainly didn't invent the concept of a side-based bar or dock either.

You would be hard pressed to find many companies that have been continuously producing a dock and a sidebar as long as Stardock has -- 14 consecutive years of development. I think it's fair to say that we weren't "inspired" by an Apple OS that wouldn't exist for 7 more years from the time we started doing this sort of thing.

image
Tab LaunchPad on OS/2 circa 1994

Stardock makes no claims of having invented the dock.  We called our first dock Tab LaunchPad because IBM itself had created a dock for OS/2 2.0:

image
IBM OS/2 LaunchPad circa 1992

But let's say you're a true die-hard Steve Jobs zealot and want to argue that NeXT "invented" the dock. You'd still be wrong as docks were part of Acorn computers from the early 80s.  The point, of course, isn't who invented the dock, the argument of course is whether companies like Stardock (who wrote the Dell Dock) were somehow ripping off or stealing or what have you from the MacOS dock and I think you can see why this is such an obnoxious and offensive argument - we've been making docks since before Apple had figured out how to do preemptive multitasking.

They say a picture is worth a 1000 words.  Here is a picture of what the Macintosh looked like in 1996 (System 7.5) along with a picture of Stardock Object Desktop in 1996:

image vs. image
Mac 1996 vs. Stardock Object Desktop 1996: Which desktop do you think more closely resembles today's modern desktop? Note that Object Desktop was written during the Windows 3.1 era.

Stardock doesn't run around claiming that it invented the modern desktop experience. We don't imply or assert that everyone else is "ripping us off". Some ideas are just obvious.

The Dell Dock represents the continuing evolution of the desktop experience. Like all improvements to the user experience, inspiration can be found everywhere. But when advocates of a company or an operating system try to lay exclusive claim to all such improvements, they diminish the hard work, innovation, and inventiveness by thousands of other people from around the world who often have worked in obscurity with little glory. It is bad enough that these innovators don't get credit they deserve, it's even worse when they are so often smeared as copying those who came after.

Other Pictures:

image
Dell Dock

image
Stardock ObjectDock

image
Stardock ObjectDock Plus (4 different docks)

image
Stardock Impulse Dock


Comments (Page 5)
6 PagesFirst 3 4 5 6 
on Jul 24, 2008
Apple takes an old idea and makes it pop with pixel aesthetic - nerds argue about who created the "idea". regardless, article does a good job of pushing a product
on Jul 24, 2008

All I can say, reading all these comments of poor people, trying to argue as much as they can against "Jobs", is that Apple is the only company, that for years took good care about the QUALITY of their products. I have nothing against SD, but ObjectDock is kinda crap as compared to Apples's dock. I could count hundreds of OD crashes, and not even one crash of Mac OS for years. Yes I'm also Mac OS User, but also heavy Windows user. So before everyone take dates into account, think about quality and functionality first. Whoever said that Dell Dock is a rip-off of Mac's dock is right, because Apple was first with their Grid View, when clicked on a folder item, and now Dell dock has it too. It's not about the whole thing, it's a bout details! About small things that no one invented before. I wonder, when SD will copy Apple's window shaking, to indicate INCORRECT / CORRECT results. This is another thing that no one had done before.

Just my few cents.

on Jul 25, 2008
reading all these comments of poor people, trying to argue as much as they can against "Jobs"


Are you sure we are reading the same thread? Yeah we poked fun at Jobs, Gates, Al Gore, the Ewoks and even ourselves. However the major thrust of this thread has been to look at the origins of the dock.

Apple is the only company, that for years took good care about the QUALITY of their products. I have nothing against SD, but ObjectDock is kinda crap as compared to Apples's dock. I could count hundreds of OD crashes, and not even one crash of Mac OS for years


The ignorance of that statement doesn't even deserve a response. Do you actually believe that Apple is the only company that puts out a quality product? Machine stability in a small controlled set of hardware and software, should not be confused with quality. "Mac" users and the company itself ("I'm a Mac and I'm a PC") take great pride in the fact that they are somehow better than a PC. When for all intents and purposes they are one. The term "PC" has its roots in "IBM compatible PC". It refers more to the Intel hardware than the MS operating system. So in point of fact the Mac is nothing more than a subset of the PC since they have switched to Intel Hardware. The only reason there is still a Mac is the software EULA that won't let anyone run the Mac OS that doesn't purchase the hardware from Apple. The Mac OS would fall apart if it had to try and be compatible with the entire marketplace. Like Stardock, MS, and Linux.

I have nothing against SD, but ObjectDock is kinda crap as compared to Apples's dock.
Again you miss the point of the article and attack. No one here has aggressively claimed that Apple products are crap, there are lots of talented people working at Apple.

The article is about Mac users claiming that all things stem from Mac. It refutes this idea, in an informed way. Tracing the history of the Dock and its development over the last thirty years.

People have been expressing their personal preferences, yours is obviously Mac. Fine, but quit throwing mud. K?

Note: I switched my handle from rufnredde to my ingame FoePA if anyone was wondering.
on Jul 25, 2008
Wow, i wish my vista would shake to tell me if i had done something wrong.

I must agree though, the apple dock looks slick as hell. I wonder why OD cant have the same reflections as the leopard dock. Are ya listening Stardock?

OD + Reflections + Gizmo and messiah backgrounds > Leopard dock
on Jul 25, 2008
Just tried ObjectDock after reading this article ... was impressed enough with the freeware that I had to buy the Plus version.


I just had to try Apple/Mac after reading this article... and I was so unimpressed that I decided not to buy the company.





on Jul 25, 2008
Wow, i wish my vista would shake to tell me if i had done something wrong.


Mine does,if I slap it around a little! I even taught it to fly.Throwing Computer Out Of Window
on Jul 25, 2008
Mac - Macintosh, a type of raincoat. (see Charles Macintosh, the inventor of waterproof fabric).

They even stole the name...
on Jul 25, 2008
Tabbed docks >>>> any single dock
on Jul 25, 2008

The ignorance of that statement doesn't even deserve a response. Do you actually believe that Apple is the only company that puts out a quality product? Machine stability in a small controlled set of hardware and software, should not be confused with quality. "Mac" users and the company itself ("I'm a Mac and I'm a PC") take great pride in the fact that they are somehow better than a PC. When for all intents and purposes they are one. The term "PC" has its roots in "IBM compatible PC". It refers more to the Intel hardware than the MS operating system. So in point of fact the Mac is nothing more than a subset of the PC since they have switched to Intel Hardware. The only reason there is still a Mac is the software EULA that won't let anyone run the Mac OS that doesn't purchase the hardware from Apple. The Mac OS would fall apart if it had to try and be compatible with the entire marketplace. Like Stardock, MS, and Linux.

You're mistaking quality with compatibility, Quality is about proper testing and delivering something that has been tested so much that you don't have to. Now, I could assemble PC from exactly the same components as Mac, and Windows with OD would still be crashing. 99% of issues with software is not caused by hardware, but by bad habits and mentality of developers, always trying to blame hardware.

Again you miss the point of the article and attack. No one here has aggressively claimed that Apple products are crap, there are lots of talented people working at Apple.

Again, you missed my point. I'll say it again, it's about details. And when you copy details, then you steal someone's idea. DD has copied the idea of expanded grid from Apple dock, and that's why Mac users are saying that it copies Apple's dock.

on Jul 25, 2008
Mac - Macintosh, a type of raincoat. (see Charles Macintosh, the inventor of waterproof fabric).

They even stole the name...


Hehe. And the 'Apple' part as well. Like Eve gave Adam the apple and lied> the Beatles used 'Apple' as the name of their record label as a subliminal message that says you can't trust women> then Jobsy takes up the name 'Apple' to show that he can downright lie with the best of 'em.
on Jul 25, 2008

You're mistaking quality with compatibility, Quality is about proper testing and delivering something that has been tested so much that you don't have to. Now, I could assemble PC from exactly the same components as Mac, and Windows with OD would still be crashing. 99% of issues with software is not caused by hardware, but by bad habits and mentality of developers, always trying to blame hardware.


So you're telling me that if I were to throw a Mac OS on a custom system with similar specs to any current Mac system I wouldn't have any problems at all? I think not.

Mac has always used a lot of proprietary hardware, or a very, very limited range of 3rd party hardware. Because of this, they're able to specifically tool their OS's to work perfectly on their systems. Looking at the current iMac, they offer a total of 2 graphics card models and that's really the only major compatibility-affecting option they give you. Nothing else is a change in architecture, since its on the same motherboard, same CPU core architecture, etc. When you only have to make it work with 2 different configurations, maybe 20 tops if you count up all the Mac systems, its easy to make a program work perfectly. When you have to factor in an almost countless number of hardware combinations and hardware architecture differences that various companies can produce, it becomes a lot harder.

I'll bet money that if Microsoft were to make it so that Windows only ran on Microsoft-manufactured PCs that it would run just as smoothly as Mac OS X does. The reason? They would be able to work with just as limited a hardware set as Mac does and wouldn't have to worry about making it compatible with the majority of the hardware out in the world.

Anyone who says that hardware has no bearing on how software runs obviously has no grasp of how computers really work. Just ask any game developer that's worked with both consoles and PCs. They'll tell you that making games for consoles is much easier than doing it for a PC because you know exactly what hardware the game is going to be running on and don't have to worry nearly at all about compatibility or performance issues. You can do all the testing and tweaking you need to get it to run perfectly because you're only going to be running it on ONE hardware profile. You can't do that with PCs because there's no telling what exact hardware someone is going to have.
on Jul 26, 2008

I'll bet money that if Microsoft were to make it so that Windows only ran on Microsoft-manufactured PCs that it would run just as smoothly as Mac OS X does. The reason? They would be able to work with just as limited a hardware set as Mac does and wouldn't have to worry about making it compatible with the majority of the hardware out in the world.

No-one would take that bet...as it's quite obvious that the OS would definitely be equally as stable...

on Jul 26, 2008
You're mistaking quality with compatibility, Quality is about proper testing and delivering something that has been tested so much that you don't have to. Now, I could assemble PC from exactly the same components as Mac, and Windows with OD would still be crashing. 99% of issues with software is not caused by hardware, but by bad habits and mentality of developers, always trying to blame hardware.


Really? Even in windows 95 days, I didn't get much blue screens. Now? BSOD is basically stuff of past. I'm sorry to hear that it still happens to you.

It's in my experience of fixing many, many computers, it is usually the users fault the computer is crashy. Unless it happens to be real hardware failure. It's sad, but true.

"The fault is not in stars, but in ourselves."
on Jul 26, 2008

Apple is the only company, that for years took good care about the QUALITY of their products. I have nothing against SD, but ObjectDock is kinda crap as compared to Apples's dock. I could count hundreds of OD crashes, and not even one crash of Mac OS for years

Amazingly, though I use ObjectDock every day for years, I don't remember it ever crashing. 

While I admire a lot of what Apple does, only a Mac zealot would argue that only Apple cares about quality. Tell that to the MobileMe users right now.

on Jul 26, 2008
While I admire a lot of what Apple does, only a Mac zealot would argue that only Apple cares about quality.


Precisely... I think all computer manufacturers/software producers try to put out quality products. Some may be more successful than others, given all the variables they have to consider/cater for, but all in all the major players are fairly consistent in putting out quality products, otherwise they'd not be in business for long.

Apple may be an industry leader in the quality stakes but it is by no means the only player on the field who produces quality products.

ObjectDock is kinda crap as compared to Apples's dock. I could count hundreds of OD crashes, and not even one crash of Mac OS for years


I've been using Object dock for almost 5 years now and am having difficulty recalling a crash... so I tend to think counting "hundreds of OD crashes" is a load of old bollocks, and that Mac zealots will say the darndest things to try prove their point... true or not.

One has to wonder if Steve Jobs might've stolen some of Stardock's technology that me old mate TheGuyPC referred to in his "Joe User/Joke User" thread (wot I pirated) some time ago... you know, some sort of covert software that indoctrinates and assimilates Mac users so that they become just as 'smug' as Jobsy himself.

6 PagesFirst 3 4 5 6