Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.

image If you've been in one of our betas before you already understand what I'm about to talk about. But if this is your first beta, you may find this discussion interesting.

Our betas tend to be very beta. That is, rough. Whether it was Galactic Civilizations or Sins of a Solar Empire, our first betas tend to be pretty rough. Unfortunately, the higher the profile the game, the more likely people are going to try to use the beta as a way to judge the final game.  The first GalCiv beta was awful. I mean AWFUL.

Here's a screenshot of GalCiv II beta 1:

image

Here's the final game:

image

It's amazing how much can change in a few months. Bear in mind, this was a SEQUEL to an existing game in which it was the same games team working on it.

Sins of a Solar Empire went through the same evolution.

So right now, we are working on a ton of things in preparation for beta 1 including the opening screens to try to make them more friendly and well, more polished.  If you've developed a game before, you already know how things like finalized UI images often wait until very late. But the average consumer isn't going to be quite as understanding.

The stability of the beta is excellent. It's as stable as a released game IMO. The challenges will be compatibility, balancing, and taking in user feedback and implementing it.  We all have our own lists of things we want to address as soon as possible it's just a matter of prioritizing those changes and getting them in.

Some people at Stardock want to focus on the maps. Some at GPG want to nail down the in game UI functionality. Others want to incorporate additional strategic elements.  And believe it or not, this is the sausage factory that exists on every game whether it come from Blizzard to Bungie or Ensemble. We all go through this. 

Of course, the difference here is we plan to share with you a peek at the inner sausage factory in our development journals here and elsewhere so you can get a sense of what goes into making a AAA title.


Comments (Page 2)
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on Aug 15, 2008
Now that Nvidia made sure the PhysX market may actually be something to count on are you guys considering making Demigod PhysX compitable?

Seeing how so much stuff is calculated with the SupCom engine it may be a very good performance boost.

P.S, not to mention the PR you would receive from Nvidia for the game.
on Aug 15, 2008
My biggest concern for the beta is that it will be unstable and crash when certain triggers and events happen(I hope that is not true). Problems like that are large scale. Exploits in games that make a character nigh invincible can also be a problem. Your general or assassin could be far superior than others. As in DotA i fear that there could be overpowered heroes in the game. The UI and Hotkeys should flow like a constant river like in DotA where hotkeys for skills are located on the left hand side of the keyboard only.
on Aug 15, 2008
Well, if it crashes during the beta, you will have to report it so it can be fixed. The entire point of the beta is to make it crash so it can be fixed . And I'm sure there will be OP Demigods at first, but eventually balance will be worked on.
on Aug 15, 2008
Tai_Waukosen Your thinking of a war craft 3 map kind of beta, Not a we want to make sure the game RUNS and crashes now are a good thing (as the can fix them early) kind of beta, which is what this is going to be.

We're not going to be (seriously) tweaking thinks like hot keys, ui, and hero balance until probably a month or two before release.
on Aug 15, 2008
Hey, no worries. I think I understand (programmer myself, delved into coding these kinds of games long time ago) why you do it this way... sort of a rapid prototyping model, get the functionality then polish it after the core elements are in place.

I came into this game from GalCiv II and went through the initial release up to before the last expansion (haven't got that yet, but want it.. still play a lot of GCII:DA though) and I've seen how much can be included in a patch, so I'm not worried at all. Game is plenty fun and I know it'll get more fun. I'd rather you took your time until it's to a stage you're comfortable with because I know it's worth waiting for.

Just my 0.02, I don't think I'm alone in my opinion either.
on Aug 17, 2008
Tai_Waukosen Your thinking of a war craft 3 map kind of beta, Not a we want to make sure the game RUNS and crashes now are a good thing (as the can fix them early) kind of beta, which is what this is going to be.We're not going to be (seriously) tweaking thinks like hot keys, ui, and hero balance until probably a month or two before release.


Well of course there are going to be crashes I acknowledge that. Yes catching these errors early are a good thing. But as games are molded and things such as hotkeys the UI, and the heroes being balanced are being added , there might be a little bit of corruption of code. Such as DotA itself, new version come around and the game crashes sometimes when certain events happen. This brings me to a question. Will there be some kind of log that will be kept while we are testing the beta , or will we have to take notes? It would be easier if there was soemthing to record what we were doing on the game to find out what events triggered the crashes and glitches.
on Aug 18, 2008
Now that Nvidia made sure the PhysX market may actually be something to count on are you guys considering making Demigod PhysX compitable?Seeing how so much stuff is calculated with the SupCom engine it may be a very good performance boost.P.S, not to mention the PR you would receive from Nvidia for the game.


The new PhysX by Nvidia needs a lot of CPU power (around 70-80%) and it´s faster than the "old" PhysX Cards. But these cards do not need so much extra CPU power.
If you stresses your CPU at 100% and try to run a game with the new PhysX by Nvidia, it´s as fast as the old way.
on Aug 18, 2008
Tai_Waukosen Your thinking of a war craft 3 map kind of beta, Not a we want to make sure the game RUNS and crashes now are a good thing (as the can fix them early) kind of beta, which is what this is going to be.We're not going to be (seriously) tweaking thinks like hot keys, ui, and hero balance until probably a month or two before release.Well of course there are going to be crashes I acknowledge that. Yes catching these errors early are a good thing. But as games are molded and things such as hotkeys the UI, and the heroes being balanced are being added , there might be a little bit of corruption of code. Such as DotA itself, new version come around and the game crashes sometimes when certain events happen. This brings me to a question. Will there be some kind of log that will be kept while we are testing the beta , or will we have to take notes? It would be easier if there was soemthing to record what we were doing on the game to find out what events triggered the crashes and glitches.


Most programmers will have an 'error log' (of whatever name, be it a minidump or an error report) to catch error details when a program crashes. Its just good programming. Not having one during a beta would be just plain insane!

Now, that said, there may be an extra log kept so they can reproduce crashes that somehow "skip" the error log / find the extra details that the error log can't catch -- I can't answer that. But it would seem like a good idea to me.
on Aug 19, 2008
Oh man I remember when game beta's where actual beta's. But that was 6+ years ago..


Frankly I DO judge games on the beta now days because they ARE just "preorder perks" and that's kind of how you guys are treating it.. people who want in beta have to preorder. You aren't selecting who you think would be actual good testers with good input.
I HAVE cancled games recently (Hellgate London springs to mind) based on their betas because I KNOW they aren't going to be fixing them by release.

Demigod I think is different, I hope it is, like Sins of a Solar Empire was, like beta's used to be.

The engine should be pretty much finished, yeah. The first beta phase will be stress testing it. Compatibility, stability, etc.. I expect there will be some placeholder graphics, possibly models. But on the whole, it should be pretty much done.


I'm betting unfinished unpolished demigods we simply won't get.. adn we won't get to look at the unfinished particle effects, missing animations, or anything. :/
on Aug 22, 2008
Itching to send a waft of singleplayer feedback mwahaa. Although I don't expect the first beta to have it!
on Aug 22, 2008
id really like to know what are the minimum requirements for the beta ( i wouldnt want to preorder a game that doesnt work on my crappy computer)
on Aug 22, 2008
Nobody really knows the requirements, but it is running on a modified SupCom engine. If you could run SupCom, you'll be able to run this. We've heard that Demigod is optimized to run smoother, so the reqs would probably be a bit lower than SupCom's.
on Aug 27, 2008

innociv
But that was 6+ years ago..Frankly I DO judge games on the beta now days because they ARE just "preorder perks" and that's kind of how you guys are treating it..

Well not all of them, for exemple warhammer online was a real beta, not just marketing. And this is just an example there are others.

on Aug 28, 2008

There aren't many others.  A few games per year have real betas now days.  So few you can count them on one hand.

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