The art of politics today is for the candidates to announce their positions last, so as to appeal to the greatest number of voters.  Right now, Obama and McCain are playing a game of chicken.  They want to appeal to the middle, but do not want to alienate their base, so they cannot moderate their primary positions without being called flip-floppers and alienating that base.

Not to be too harsh, but I bet Obama could school you any day in a debate on the Constitution, law, and American History.

Obama has, so far:
1. Graduated magna cum laude from Harvard Law
2. Served as editor of the Harvard Law Review
3. Served as a community organizer in a downtrodden urban area, where he got first-hand experience with the severe crisis that is affecting cities nationwide (see this excellent essay by David Simon, writer and producer of The Wire, about "the two Americas": http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/sep/06/wire)
4. Ran for an won a seat on the Senate
5. Endured and triumped in a long, bitter campaign against the legendary Clinton political machine (the one that conservatives were all warning us about and villifying during the 90s) while taking potshots from the GOP/RNC political engine.

I doubt that any "middle manager at Circuit City or IBM" could do even a single one of the above.  (Well, maybe they could be community organizers - America can always use more volunteers in her communities, helping after school programs and mentoring kids.)  But how does any armchair politics afficionado have the chuztpah to claim that those are "no achievement"?  How many commenters here actually think they could *get into* Harvard Law?  How many people here think they can actually run for and win a seat on the US Senate?  Anyone?  If so, why are you piddling around on a web page?  Go and run for office and change things up!  (The scientist Bill Foster did exactly that.)

My point is that we expect some level of hyperbole in any political discussion, but this is just over the top.

Oh, and my wife works at IBM, and I know all about the middle management there.  I wouldn't trust those hacks to run a kid's lemonade stand.

Arg... is there no "edit" option after we post?  I noticed two typos as soon as I hit "post".

Lotta those Harvard types were advising Lehman Brothers, too.  And don't forget Harvard grad Ted Kaczynski.

Aiding and abetting voter fraud with ACORN and furthering the cause of class warfare, blaming their plight, as did his mentor the Good Rev Wright, on 'white America.'

Yeah....  And then......?

We do need to thank him for that, I'll grant.

I don't understand your point... do you disagree that graduating Harvard Law is an achievement?  Or are you saying that just because one Harvard (undergraduate, not law school) student went psycho, therefore everyone who graduates from there is a potential serial killer?

If your kid or your friend's kid or one of your siblings managed to get into Harvard Law School, make editor of the Review, and graduate at the top of their class, would you poo-poo them from attending the same institution where the Unabomber went?

Didn't think so.

Well, here's a full list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bills_sponsored_by_Barack_Obama_in_the_United_States_Senate

One of the more notable things he's done (IMHO) is to sponsor the development of the USASpending.gov website, which tracks how the government is spending money on various things.  This was part of an effort to make government more transparent, so that taxpayers can easily see who is lobbying for what sorts of earmarks.

 

A) The media was sooooo on his side He barely beat Hillary C) what "potshots"?

Then he voted "present" over and over again...oh, and he voted to teach sex ed to kindergartners. 

The only evidence of him accomplishing anything as a community organizer is him saying over and over agaid that he learned from that experience.

I bet Obama wouldn't have either without affirmative action on his side. 

Obama's "accomplishments" mainly consist of him talking about himself and writing books about himself.  He wants to "make government cool again"?  Please!

I'll take that bet.  I bet he cannot, except in the narrow field of study he got his degree in.  At least going by his statemetns (or mis-statements) he appears to be woefully ignorant of the law, history and the Constitution.

Neither would I, but then I dont think every (or even most) middle manager in America is that incompetant.  But you are entitled to you own opinion.

If your kid crapped in a toilet instead of his pants, would you post that on his resume for future jobs?  Have you seen the latest list of "Success after Graduation" and where Harvard ranks on that list?

I dont think so.

So he could be one of the biggest porkers in congress after less than 2 years?  Is that his next campaign ad?  "I waste more of your money than the next 3 pigs combined!"

(A) Actually I don't think the media was particularly unfair to either side.  Remember when everyone was talking about how Hillary was an "inevitability"?  Was that the media being on Barack's side?

( It was definitely a close primary, but so what?  My point is that he not only ran against the Clintons, but he actually managed to win.  That is no small feat.

(C) Right-wing pundits and talking heads were trumping up the Jeremiah Wright issue, and also fueled the "Obama as a celebrity" meme.  But I recall that as soon as Obama actually started looking like a possible winner, they started taking whatever easy shots came their way (i.e. would rally their base and not cause too much potential backlash with moderates).

Are you serious?  This has been demonstrated to be false.  [url=http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/off_base_on_sex_ed.html]http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/off_base_on_sex_ed.html[/url]

I have a question: what would it take for you to feel that he - or anyone, for that matter - has "accomplished something" as a community organizer?  Should he parade all the kids and families he helped across the national stage?  At his campaign stops, do you think people want to hear him going on and on about how he helped particular families in Chicago, or do you think they want to hear about his plans for governmental reform?

So, there are two major issues with your statement:

1. Do you have any evidence whatsoever that he was admitted because of affirmative action?  If not, then your statement is borderline racist (and that is being generous).  I personally am not a fan of affirmative action, but I am also a minority.  My wife is a female engineer.  We both know the arguments for and against quota systems, but one of the biggest arguments against them is people like you, who will make baseless assertions that a minority could only have been admitted to an Ivy because of affirmative action, or that a female engineer could only have been promoted because she is a woman.

2. If it is indeed true that he was only admitted to Harvard because of the color of his skin, then it seems to be a fairly compelling argument *in favor* of affirmative action.  If someone who is so obviously gifted in legal studies and oratory can only get in to Harvard Law via affirmative action, then imagine how many bright people would be excluded without it.

Actually, I think the crux of the vision is to motivate Americans to go back out into their communities and take an active interest and role in defining what works and doesn't work for our democracy.  There are more and more grassroots efforts on both sides of the aisle (c.f. Ron Paul supporters).  Online discussions like this are part of it, but face-to-face interactions are much better.  People will always have differing viewpoints, but only if we have a foundation of strong communities will we be able to actually discuss those differences in a civil and productive forum.  Without that, then we are really reduced to "horse race" or "spectator sports" style of political theater.

When Obama talks about restoring the promise of government, he does not mean that he wants a government bureaucrat scrutinizing everyone's health records.  He means that people across the board have been so disheartened by the failures of the last 8 years and the bitter partisanship of the last two decades that they need to be reminded that this *is* a government *of* the people, and we all have to do our part to make our democracy strong.  Venting about latte-sipping East Coast baby-killing homosexual liberals doesn't advance policy one bit.  It is counter-producive to lampoon all conservatives as Jeebus-praising gay-bashing young earth creationists awaiting the Rapture.  What we need in this country is real dialogue about the issues, about politics, about economic and political theory, and about what things we can do to insure that the democratic process actually works moving forward.  *That's* a vision that some people this election cycle are buying into.  Others - perhaps too hardened in their ways - are just dishing out more of the same.

Strange.. I posted a long response to JillUser and it's not showing up.  Is my post lost?

Ah, there it is - it showed up on page 2.

Ah, getting into Harvard is now as easy a feat as using the bathroom!  Sweet, I *knew* I screwed something up on my college application - I should have submitted a Polaroid of me on the toilet.

Harvard undergrad, or Harvard Law?  Obama went to Harvard Law, which is one of the most prestigious law schools in the country.  (Although I think Yale Law still ranks as #1.)

But regardless... I'm a Cornell grad, and I love nothing better than a solid round of Harvard-bashing, but I'm not sure what your statement has to do with anything.  Are you arguing that Harvard is easy to get in to?  Or that graduating magna at one of the top law schools in the country is no big deal?  Or... what?

  That's what we'll get if we get the Dem's health care system.

Imagine how many could miss out because of the color of their skin alone.  That is a really weak argument.  I agree that he is a great speaker...so what.  I don't care about talk.  I care about action.

  I would never do such a thing.  I was a lone female in EE classes myself.

He himself has credited affirmative action for helping him along the way. 

Even one single example would help.

I read it and have a difference of opinion obviously.  I don't think there is such a thing as "age appropriate" sex ed for a 5yr old in public school.  I don't trust the public schools to discuss such things with such young children.  They can teach stranger danger, and they do, and that is certainly sufficient. 

Sure is - just have connections.  Do we really have to list the people who have graduated that Obama wants to be in the company of?  After all, getting an education is not that hard.  last I checked, over 270 million americans have done it or are doing it.  And graduated College?  Even if we go down to Harvard, that still leaves thousands.  So the question then becomes - what makes him more qualified than any of the other graduates?  We are not saying he is not qualified to graduate, but how is that an accomplishment?

Does it matter?  Lookign at either, you see some great successes and some abysmal failures.  Graduating shows you can learn.  It does not show what you can do.  And is not something that anyone with half a brain uses for a mid-level or high level executive position.  They look at what you DID with that degree.  So far, Obama is abysmal.

ANd therefore proof that politics trancends all else!  Just dont let your alumni know.  I wont tell.