Paying taxes is not patriotic

Published on September 20, 2008 By Draginol In Republican

Joe Biden had the audacity to say that it's time for the rich (those making $250k or more according to him) to be more patriotic and pay more taxes for the sake of the country.

Of course, what Biden, like most clueless government types doesn't realize is that the government is an anchor, a parasite living off the earnings of patriotic Americans who actually make our country successful.

The more we tax, the more we bog down our economy. Hence, a responsible government should try to be as small as possible, focusing on things that just don't make sense for the private sector to handle (roads, national defense, police, fire departments, courts, and non-partial regulation of business).

What's amazing about Biden, Democratic vice presidential candidate, is that while he has averaged making $250k per year for the past 10 years, he has averaged only a few hundred bucks a year in charitable giving.

Read the whole thing here:

http://www.reason.com/news/show/128900.html

Comments (Page 2)

Draginol

on Sep 22, 2008

Have you ever worked for a charity? Do you know how they're run? From what I've seen and heard, through personal experience and through the experiences of my friends and family, very few charities are any more efficient than the government, and most of those tend to be the low-profile ones who no one donates to anyway and which slowly fall apart. They may care, but that doesn't mean they're good accountants or can afford good accountants.

Let's accept your premise as true, which I don't but for the sake of argument: It's irrelevant.

One is voluntary, the other is coereced.

If you want to give your money to the government, you can do so at any time. The government does, as a matter of fact, accept donations. Feel free to donate as much as you want.

Nitro Cruiser

on Sep 22, 2008

I certainly wouldn't mind payng more taxes if someone was watching the purse strings.

If someone was watching the purse strings, none of us would have to pay more taxes.

emximer

on Sep 24, 2008

So I take it the original poster is a Ron Paul supporter?

Draginol

on Sep 24, 2008

No. I'm not a libertarian.

Mooseplow

on Sep 24, 2008

Why should only Rich be more patriotic? I think that sucks of elitism. Biden wants one segment of the population to be more patriotic than the rest. He is an elitist!

because the poor are the one(mostly) dying for our freedom. Hmm pay more money or lose a child, father, brother, mother, sister, daughter. Which would you choose. And when the rich are willing to run to war as the poor and put their lives on the line then come talk to me and maybe we can discuss it.

Mooseplow

on Sep 24, 2008

The top 1.5% paying so much of the taxes is simply an indicator that the "rich" are doing more than their share and idiots like Biden should shut the hell up when it comes arguing that the rich should pay more as a "patriotic duty".

Ya know what tough suck it up the rich now have it way better than the rich throughout our countries history. As I just pointed out they dont die for their freedom so they can help pay for it. If I was rich I wouldnt complain about it. I wish honestly I had that much money to be taxed on, but I have to struggle to support my family like many others....And I have a decent job.

Vishmaw

on Sep 24, 2008

Draginol

I really don't think conservatives tend to be more sucessful in the real world, I think the wealthy generally become Republicans because Republicans are more interested in keeping more money in the hands of the wealthy.
There's been lots of studies on this. No, most people don't change their life philosophies simply because their economic situation has changed. I would argue that the conservative philosophy leads to more success than liberal philosophy.
People who start businesses, for instance, are overwhelmingly conservative whether their business succeeds or not.

Conservatives disguise the keeping the money with the rich as an Ideology of those who work hardest should get to keep what they make and not give their money to the lazy. Its really quite amazing how deep they have made this idealogy go into people. I'm from a VERY red state and in my hometown nobody there has a pot to piss in, yet they are the most conservative people you'll ever meet. Its a fishing area, in a world that doesn't support fihserman anymore. Over the years the fish have gotten hard to catch and the fisherman have been getting less money. Very few people work harder than these, yet they don't have much money. Where I'm from the more wealthy tend to be Democrats actually. So perhaps I just live in bizarro world.
Spoken like a true liberal.
First, that most wealthy people tend to be Republicans isn't really debateable. It's not even a close call as polling and surveys have made clear over the years.
Secondly, conservatives simply don't like the government taking their earnings to give to other people. The conservative philosophy isn't the philosophy of "the rich" but it is a philosophy that tends to make people more successful.
It has nothing to do with helping the rich, it has to do with not believing the government has an inate right to your property or earnings.
Something most people apprently don't realize is that only 1.5% of American households make more than $250,000 a year(Bracket Obama wants to tax). So by Republican logic 98.5% of America is just stupid and lazy, including...most Republicans.
That's quite a strawman. Conservatives (as studies have shown countless times) are much more likely to answer the question "Does the average person know what's best for them?" with a yes than a liberal.
The top 1.5% paying so much of the taxes is simply an indicator that the "rich" are doing more than their share and idiots like Biden should shut the hell up when it comes arguing that the rich should pay more as a "patriotic duty".

As for Biden's comment, i knew an outrage was coming over that one. Bidens got a reputation as i said before for sticking his foot in his mouth. But the arguement he hasn't given much to charity doesn't fly.
Charity and taxes are not the same thing. and actually it is in a way patriotic. You are indeed serving your country by financing it. All of you government reducers out there should know unless you want to no longer have an army, social security, roads, leaders, police and a myraid of other things everyone takes for granted you have to pay taxes. Those things are not free.
You say that the argument that Biden hasn't given much to charity doesn't fly and then proceed not to back it up.
Sure it "flies". Biden talks about patriotism which is inherently the voluntary choice of supporting your country in some way. Biden is not putting his money where his mouth is.
Paying taxes isn't patriotic in the least unless you actually believe that there's such thing as forced patriotism. It's not patriotism unless it's voluntary.
Right now, half my work life is spent enslaved to the government:

35% federal
5% state
6% sales tax
9% in other taxes (property taxes, fees, gas taxes, etc.)

So by Biden's definition, the ultimate form of patriotism is being a slave. Which I guess makes sense to a Democrat since they were the party of slavery.
Conservatives believe that the more we are forced to work for the state, the less free we are.

I would argue that people's ideaology tends to attract them to different fields. Conservatives tend to be attracted to buisness, while Liberals tend to be attracte dto Education, law and medicine. Buisness is of course the best way to make money ergo why conservatives tned to make more. I don't think the liberal ideaology is at all to be lazy and hope someone will come save you at least not my version of it. Its more about helping others, and doing things that benefit everyone. I dont expect to sit on my rear and get a government check every month just because i'm breathing.

My primarly belief is that if you ARE working hard and trying to raise afmaily or something , its a good thing for someone to help you out once ina while. The reality is many families are struggling just to pay thier bills and feed their families and its not because they are lazy, its just the plight we need to deal with as a nation.

Now I understand the conservatives don't believe the government has any right to thier money but we all enjoy the benefits of government services and so we should pay some taxes for them. I'm sure if we gave everyone the choice of paying taxes or not having any government services the majoirty would take the taxes. I don't believe they should take all your money but Democrats don't advocate that.

If you are wealthy your always going to have a better standard of living them someone who is not, so there are rewards to being sucessful.

And I will back it up if youd like. A Charity exists for a certian cause, whatever that cause is. Giving money to a chairty is to give money for said cause. Now unless said Chairty is the US government giving to charity is not an act of patrotism. Its certainly a morally good act, but moral good and patriotism is not the same thing.

I would agree with you in saying Biden's statement was stupid, theres a reason he is called a gaffe machine., but there is a degree of merit to what he said. Would you say someone who cheats on their taxes is patriotic? Its a citizens duty to pay taxes, not doing so is not furfilling your duty. Now this isn't justification to RAISE taxes. I think this statement likely refered the to some of the superrich that spend a great deal of time trying to get out of taxes anyway possible.

taltamir

on Sep 24, 2008

it is a rediculous statement.

fairtax.org

this is how taxes should be done.

Dr Guy

on Sep 25, 2008

Really? Palin is Poor? Shazaam! I never knew that McCain grew up poor!

But it would do you well to stop spouting discredited talking points and lies, and present facts and truths.

BTW: Last I checked, not all Poor people had relatives in the Military, but all Rich people paid taxes. So my point stands even with your non-facts.

Dr Guy

on Sep 25, 2008

but I have to struggle to support my family like many others....And I have a decent job.

You never will be rich 0r stop struggling to support with that attitude.

while Liberals tend to be attracte dto Education, law and medicine. Buisness is of course the best way to make money ergo why conservatives tned to make more

Then why aren't liberal lawyers and doctors doing only Pro Bono work? The Clintons and Edwards sure have not done any, and seem to like money just as much as any conservative.

Nitro Cruiser

on Sep 25, 2008

As a vet, this is one of the most troubling, dishonest, demeaning and offensive statements I've heard in a long time. Of course there are some people from humble backgrounds, but I would place most from average income family backgrounds. Some come to improve their lives economically, some for training or adventure, and others from a sense of duty, but all are aware of the potential risks. You perpetuate the time during the draft (it ended in the 70's) when attending college was a way out for people with money. Those peoples legacy lives on in organizations like Code Pink.

Mooseplow

on Sep 25, 2008

You never will be rich 0r stop struggling to support with that attitude.

I am already rich where it counts. And what attitude would you be refering to?

Mooseplow

on Sep 25, 2008

Really? Palin is Poor? Shazaam! I never knew that McCain grew up poor!

But it would do you well to stop spouting discredited talking points and lies, and present facts and truths.

BTW: Last I checked, not all Poor people had relatives in the Military, but all Rich people paid taxes. So my point stands even with your non-facts.

Come on its not talking points, its facts, look at the military how many rich people do youu have in the military? Very few. They dont need the kind of benefits that the military offers.

taltamir

on Sep 26, 2008

I am literally a poor student. I pay for my own college with work while being legally under the poverty line. And yet I am conservative. The notion that poor = liberal, and rich = conservative is beyond flawed.

Dr Guy

on Sep 26, 2008

I am already rich where it counts. And what attitude would you be refering to?

Then why are you bitchin about it? Most people do not carp on the fact they have it made, instead they seek ways to correct what they do not. Yet you state you are "struggling" in one breath, and then you are "rich". Why? WHy accentuate something if it did not bother you?

And the attitude? The attitude that anyone better off than you has to be "gotten". Rich people have to be "gotten" as they can pay more so why not? It is called envy. And it never leads to self improvement, only more envy.

Come on its not talking points, its facts, look at the military how many rich people do youu have in the military? Very few. They dont need the kind of benefits that the military offers.

If it is facts, you should have no problem linking to it. But before you actually waste your time, I will tell you that it is not a fact. Indeed, it is just a myth. WHile you will find some rich people in the military, you will also find some that come from a poor background. But most that come from the middle class. And guess what? That pretty much mirrors the general population! The discredited rhetoric of the lunatic left is that the "poor" only have the option of the military to "escape" their life of poverty. The reality shows the democrat talking points to be nothing more than "Jimmy's World". And a lie.

The people (for the most part as there are always exceptions) that are serving in the military are doing so out of a sense of suty, honor and obligation, not because they think they are going to get rich quick. I think you owe them an appology.

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